Dating Russian Women

[Jake993]

Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go really high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.

Ahhhh true enough, but the trait you describe is not exclusive to Slavic women. This is where it becomes universal. Women who command respect in business and politics the world over exhibit what you describe. They have achieved success in a man's world and and special treatment on the "playing field" will threaten to diminish their achievement. At this level, they despise woman's lib and want to be treated like equals..... except in the bedroom. But the twist comes in how things proceed in public on a date. In America, a date with a powerful woman may end with her INSISTING to pay for the tab (or at least splitting it) and making a show of flashing credit cards. I once had a date with a Moscow entrepreneur who handed me an envelope with cash when I picked her up at her apartment. She said,"it's my turn to pay for dinner". In private, she wanted to demonstrate her equality, but in public, she wanted to be seen as being "taken care of by a strong man".

Fucking complicated.

[Pizdyets]

Actually my lament is the result of some soul-searching (yes we mongers do that sometimes) I've had to do following my most recent trip and to a certain extent, my last few trips.

Doc, I continue to admire your ability to successfully juggle a dozen devs simultaneously, but you are, alas, but one man. The most I've juggled at one time is 6. But that was spread across 4 countries, and yet you have that many in Moscow alone. Of course maintaining (and scheduling!) that kind of stable takes an extraordinary amount of effort, and there's no wonder that you're a little burned out by it all. Maybe you should try pruning back a bit until you have a chance to recoup?

[Doctor_Skank]

Doc,

Excellent advice, I imagine you could apply it to most women, anywhere. Sounds like you went through some changes this last trip. Is it possible a single girl inspired all this elightenment? Or was it a combination of factors?

This has also been my experience. Never back down from a confrontation with a slavic female, not just for your own sense of self-respect, but because it's important to her. She wants you to fight back. Life is tough and she wants a strong man who will stand like a brick wall at her back. If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.
How true. I'm not sure the line is even visible with a Russian woman. She wants a strong man; someone she can respect, count on and be proud to stand next to. In short, she wants her man to be, well... a man. This is a new concept for most western men, particularly those who live in the U.S. It's tough being the man; making all the decisions, enabling everone's desires, fulfilling everyone's expectations, but, it's a burden we must carry, lest we begin that slide down the slippery slope to women's liberation. The wonderful thing about slavic women is that they are willing to let us be men. This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.

Strav,

Actually my lament is the result of some soul-searching (yes we mongers do that sometimes) I've had to do following my most recent trip and to a certain extent, my last few trips.

To quote NIN: the Downward Spiral.

Essentially 2 things have occured simultaneously:

1) I haven't been getting the response I've desired and been accustomed to from both existing girls and new girls

2) I have lacked the motivation and/or finesse to get what I want

It isn't one particular girl, although there are 3 that I particularly like I can think of off hand that have triggered my realization.

I've been in the mongering/girlfriend management business for more than a decade, and as such I am no stranger to both hot streaks and droughts and am well aware of some of the hazards of mongering:

1) falling in love/emotional crisis
2) time mismanagement
3) cost control
4) friendship maintenance
5) emotional attrition
6) complacency/laziness

Last week I spent 3 nights each in St.Pete and Moscow, meeting both some existing gf contacts, fresh gf contacts and new girls. I did not participate in p4p, due to lack of time and motivation, not to mention the prohibitive costs of the take home/outcall variety, which I vastly prefer over salons/in call.

In St.Pete I was with existing gfs Marina (23), Julia (24) and Natasha (19), as well as meeting a cute new 19-year old contact Anastasiya, whom I managed to only kiss after some afternoon sushi.

In Moscow I was with existing gfs Dasha (23), Katya (19), Anna (23), Vika (30), Sasha (24), Olessia (20), Masha (25) as well as 31-year old Tania, a new contact with amazing tits I managed to kiss and suck before she ran off into the night, thankfully just in time for the afore-mentioned Katya to show up for a sleep-over.

It is not that I wasn't getting enough sex, nor can I complain about the quality. It was the response in some of the girls that bothered me.

I'd noticed following trends, certainly not among all, but among some:

1) lack of commitment to meet/scheduling problems
2) apparent suspicion of my true intent in our relations
3) disappointment in status/direction of relation and/or my person

Realizing that such trends existed, I sought the reasons for them and came to the conclusions listed in my previous post. Essentially, I realized that I had been making mistakes in my relationship management, that I was slipping. Curiously, this slippage was due to contradictory factors, both my lack of motivation/commitment to the cause (or to the particular relationship/girl) as well as my own laziness/comfort in the relationships, which had become too lax.

In any case, I am in the process of collecting myself and setting impulses to restart solid into 2009. I've already taken some measures which have shown positive affect. Essentially, I've hardened up... of course without losing the human/soul touch that the girls love. I've just returned it to it's shell and not left it hanging around my neck. I hope that made sense.

Again, complacency kills.

If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.

Well put. This is being applied to Marina as I write. I need to bring her back in line.

This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.

Decades we don't have... usually. In a world of 3-day, 3-week and 3-month relationships the dynamics change somewhat of course. The danger of a long-term relationship is taking it too far and ending up in a train wreck. Been there done that a couple of years ago, which was a valuable lesson.

[Doctor_Skank]

Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go really high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.

True enough and I am speaking about the kind of woman who doesn't "need" anything from you per se, still in most cases she just doesn't like to be treated like one "of the stock". My mistake has been making this fact too obvious to some, out of pure carelessness.

[Pizdyets]

However, the higher up the female food chain the girl is, the less likely she is to accept this. Her reputation is at stake as well... and in cities like Moscow, she has numerous choices herself.

Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go really high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.

[Doctor_Skank]

has told me a number of times that I would be perfect for her once I stop fuc king around with sluts. I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.

Yes, I've heard that from a few Russian girls too. But funny enough, I've heard it from a couple of American girls too. Frankly, a sexual, self-assured and powerful man is attractive to women in any culture, any country (well, maybe not the Vatican - but then again...)

True enough, pretty much every girl you are casually fucking, or even in a relationship with, will know that you are fucking other girls. Some are quite frankly turned on by it. It is a sort of confirmation for them as well.

You are good enough that women are fucking you: she made a good choice

She is good enough that you are fucking her: she made the cut

Nonetheless, they don't like it rubbed in their faces. In moments of weakness I've made the mistake a few times and although it rarely led to direct conflict, it did set some currents in motion I didn't like.

However, the higher up the female food chain the girl is, the less likely she is to accept this. Her reputation is at stake as well... and in cities like Moscow, she has numerous choices herself.

[Pizdyets]

I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.

Yes, I've heard that from a few Russian girls too. But funny enough, I've heard it from a couple of American girls too. Frankly, a sexual, self-assured and powerful man is attractive to women in any culture, any country (well, maybe not the Vatican - but then again...)

[Stravinsky]

Doc,

Excellent advice, I imagine you could apply it to most women, anywhere. Sounds like you went through some changes this last trip. Is it possible a single girl inspired all this elightenment? Or was it a combination of factors?

it is important to be good. It is just as important to be "bad", exciting. Kindness and generosity as previously mentioned are important... just as much so is the occasional "no" and the occasional conflict.

This has also been my experience. Never back down from a confrontation with a slavic female, not just for your own sense of self-respect, but because it's important to her. She wants you to fight back. Life is tough and she wants a strong man who will stand like a brick wall at her back. If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.

opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back.

How true. I'm not sure the line is even visible with a Russian woman. She wants a strong man; someone she can respect, count on and be proud to stand next to. In short, she wants her man to be, well... a man. This is a new concept for most western men, particularly those who live in the U.S. It's tough being the man; making all the decisions, enabling everone's desires, fulfilling everyone's expectations, but, it's a burden we must carry, lest we begin that slide down the slippery slope to women's liberation. The wonderful thing about slavic women is that they are willing to let us be men. This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.

[Cruiser D]

I was having a date with a girl I have known for about three years, she didn't interact with foreigners too much so her english skills were rusty. So I invited another female friend of mine who sometimes translates for me. The girl I was with had found a local man about 2 or so years ago and became very serious with him. The topic came up about if I was in his place if I would allow her to go out to meet a male 'friend' such as myself. I told her that if a girl belongs to me I expect her to act that way. That to ask such a thing would be unacceptable. The look of lust and approval on both the girls’ faces was quite self satisfying.

The translator who is also very interested in me has told me a number of times that I would be perfect for her once I stop fuc king around with sluts. I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.

[Doctor_Skank]

For those who speak Russian, go to the Smotri website

Cool link, thanks!

[SlutLover]

Absolutely, you'd be regarded as a лох, a guy they disrespect and use for their purposes. In Russia, the man is supposed to be in charge, rather than tell her stories about his emotional state.

For those who speak Russian, go to the Smotri website, watch a girl's broadcast and see how the guys in the chat there talk to the women, and what women are willing to accept. It will open your eyes. But those who speak Russian well enough to understand probably already know

If you feel you've got great chemistry with a girl, it can seem very natural to open up to her. It seems almost automatic however that you show your inner side, you'll reveal some weaknesses. Some girls are more "forgiving" of this or even value and appreciate it, particularly European women and most American/Anglo women as well. You open too much or too often with a Russian girl however, she'll start being uncomfortable with something she's been groomed to disrespect. It's a trap. That's truly been my experience. I'm not saying you can't push the boundaries, you can. Girls like issues of soul and heart. They adore sweet words at the appropriate time... actually they absolutely eat it up. But you can't show her outright weakness, lack of conviction or lack of mission. They despise uncertainty.

[Doctor_Skank]

This is my personal weakness, any hints on how to stay focussed?

HA, but if you have to work at it. Its not really a freebee then is it!?

If you feel you've got great chemistry with a girl, it can seem very natural to open up to her. It seems almost automatic however that you show your inner side, you'll reveal some weaknesses. Some girls are more "forgiving" of this or even value and appreciate it, particularly European women and most American/Anglo women as well. You open too much or too often with a Russian girl however, she'll start being uncomfortable with something she's been groomed to disrespect. It's a trap. That's truly been my experience. I'm not saying you can't push the boundaries, you can. Girls like issues of soul and heart. They adore sweet words at the appropriate time... actually they absolutely eat it up. But you can't show her outright weakness, lack of conviction or lack of mission. They despise uncertainty.

I've been in a couple of relationships which were in various stages of intimacy, where a real relationship in the sense of partnership had developed, albeit with clearly defined operative roles. As our emotional intimacy had reached a level beyond comfort, I revealed too much, too often. The relationship went on, but things changed.

Eventually, the "sizzle" was gone.

As much as I think I know certain females, I still have occasionally made the mistake of not thinking, or simply forgetting, that they don't play by our rules. I also believe that utilizing this cultural difference and relating on those terms she understands, the Russian system if you will, can be used by us to great affect and is in some ways a nice way to run a relationship. Some ways. Others not. But it certainly is simple in it's structure.

As for freebies being emotionally or effort free, nobody ever claimed that. The only thing freebie means is that you didn't pay her for sex in the traditional sense of the word "pay".

[Solntsa Yada]

1) focus on the girl. Talk about her, ask her questions, figure out who she is. Women need to be treated as individuals and not cattle, even if they do know you have other women.

good technique for any situation

2) women are not your friends. Once they become your friends, they're not your lovers.

One of the scariest things I've ever read/heard, It rings too tru to deny it, but if its true, I have no hope to ever be with another woman again. Whats the fricken point?

4) opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back.

This is my personal weakness, any hints on how to stay focussed?

8) show, not tell. She'll notice without you telling her.

9) almost any women can be replaced. Sometimes it is better to just let things end. Charity does nobody a favor.

This stuff really needs to be expanded upon, and trained to ALL men in the world, I swear if my dad had half of this knowledge and passed on even half of that, I'd have been far better off in life.

It begs the question. What the F* is going on with Men, and Parenting. I vow to train my boys (if/when I get them) in these rules of life, Its what being a friggin parent is about, and the majority of western society seems to have forgotten all about this.

10) scoring new freebies is work. If you don't take pride and passion to work, you need a new job.

HA, but if you have to work at it. Its not really a freebee then is it!?

[Doctor_Skank]

Just back from a week long trip to Russia, I have had to exercise a degree of self-criticism. Perhaps others have experienced the same.

The last months have been good to me on the freebie front. So much so in fact, that I have allowed my skillz to deteriorate. Laziness might be a better word.

I have noticed a trend among my recent encounters, both with regular gfs and with new contacts, that reminds me of a simple fact:

We can never become complacent.

When a system of success yields results, it is easy to rely more on the system rather than the persons involved. It is easy to rely on carrying out certain tactical maneuvers rather than allowing the moment, and the passion, to take it's course.

And moreover, it is easy to allow oneself to slip back into the cultural behavior patterns one grew up with, in my case American/European.

In the past week, the following deficiencies come to mind:

1) focus on the girl. Talk about her, ask her questions, figure out who she is. Women need to be treated as individuals and not cattle, even if they do know you have other women.

2) women are not your friends. Once they become your friends, they're not your lovers.

3) sex is secondary to women. Focus first of romance, kissing, atmosphere. The sex will come... and will be better if you do your homework first.

4) opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back.

5) it is important to be good. It is just as important to be "bad", exciting. Kindness and generosity as previously mentioned are important... just as much so is the occasional "no" and the occasional conflict.

6) women, despite their cultural similarities, are individuals. Adjust accordingly.

7) sometimes sex is just sex. There is no need to blur the boundaries if she doesn't want to.

8) show, not tell. She'll notice without you telling her.

9) almost any woman can be replaced. Sometimes it is better to just let things end. Charity does nobody a favor.

10) scoring new freebies is work. If you don't take pride and passion to work, you need a new job.

[Fijiman]

From what you've described, my best guess is that she might have misunderstood and thought that you had told him specific details ("and then she does this thing with her tongue!")

Sorry for jumping on you, my bad. Glad it's smoothed over.