El Tijuanense's perspective on Tijuana violence

[Member #4450]

This is a great thread, sorry I had to jump in!

Why everyone believes TJ is the worst and most dangerous place on earth?
The truth is every prostitution zona in every country is a dangerous area to be, these places are not for family vacation or your trip to Disneyland.
The truth is prostitution, gambling, thieves, and all kind of criminal live here.
It doesn't matter if is TJ or Rio de Janeiro, if you think TJ is dangerous go try Rio de Janeiro where any 12 year old kid will shoot you dead for your cheap Casio watch, now that's scary shit to me, any tourist venturing to any 3rd world country and flashing or showing off is looking for trouble, when I go to TJ I try to look working class that means worn out shoes, old jeans, no watch or any kind of jewelery, I've seen many many guys dressing for a wedding when mongering at the zona I think is dam stupid you only dealing with $25- $60 working girls, what's the point?

Trust me, I'm from South America and Tj is a calm walk in the park compared to the Fabellas in Brazil or the thieves in Buenos Aires, Lima , Colombia, and even Mexico City.
Right now there's a big problem with the drug war and the Government of Mexico, I don't think they want to harm the Mongers, most Americans kidnapped or killed at the Border towns are somehow in the wrong business with the wrong people just because your going to get laid is not a reason to be worry, yes you can be in the wrong place at wrong time, you can also be
eaten alive by a Great White shark or mauled to death by a bear, is this mean should we all stay away from beaches and forest areas? Nonsense.

I honestly believe that news media and some people that hates Mexico would say all kind of things to scare the TJ tourist, yes TJ can be dangerous if your walking late night in the wrong neighborhood so is South Central LA, Santa Ana OC etc.

Like Country John quote,"You are going to interact with some poor people and some not-so-poor people"
Most locals are very good people they want you there because they need your business, always respect the police be polite and be normal and you can enjoy TJ to the fullest, your a visitor act like one don't act silly drinking on the streets shouting or waving a U.S. flag LOL!
Are we any safer in SoCal? Hell NO! you can get kill in your way down to TJ by some maniac road rage driver.

PS: Sorry CJ where's Buttfuck Oklahoma?
can't find it on the map!

[Country John]

well, i don't get the chance to hang out with a lot of wanna be gangsters en el norte, that has just never been by peer group.

in tj, .............(post continues below)

i'm not from here but i live here now and there are a few things i've learned that i call "rules for happy living in mexico." you can't expect things here to be the same as in buttfuck oklahoma.

1. you are in a different country. different doesn't mean that something's wrong.

yes, it's "just across the border." some call it a "suburb of san diego." nothing could be further from the truth. there are a lot of "native" tijuanians running around, true, and they might have learned the ways of the chicano, but any mexican will tell you that these mexican americans are not "mexican." there are a whole lot of people from almost everywhere else in mexico too. michoacan, guerro, sinaloa, nuevo leon and other states. they come here for many different reasons but tj is the "big city" for many of these people. they bring with them their ways, their attitudes and their culture. but it's their country. you are a visitor. you might find some things strange but that doesn't mean there's something wrong.

2. some have and some have not, but we're all god's children. the first interaction with anyone must be polite and with respect.

you are going to interact with some poor people and some not-so-poor people but the majority of people you will contact (working girls excepted) earn probably 1/4 of what you earn per week. sometimes less. average pay in the factories is between $80.00 and $100.00 per week. so they have to live their life on what they make, which is a whole lot less than what you make. because of this you might fell somehow "superior." wrongo-bongo.

everyone has their dignity and as poor or unfortunate they might seem, they are probably doing ok compared to the guy next door. give people credit for being there, treat them with respect. nobody here is as lucky as you are and most would love to be in your situation (financially).

treat people right and let them dictate the direction after that. if you come across with a good attitude out of the box then you will always get a warm reception or reaction, and that is the kind of relationship building you want to do in mexico.

when you begin to develop an appreciation for who these people really are, it will be reflected in your demeanor and people here read body language real good.

3. be prepared to do for yourself. living here is a manual art and nothing is beneath you.

4. nobody is perfect, even me!

5. it's easy to make someone better or happier because you have their co-operation -everyone wants to be "better," or "happy." practice being a nice guy, you get much more milage.

6. don't hang out with the wrong crowd. if you fuck with the bull you get the horns.

you are on their turf. leave the attitude at the border. don't try to be "different" or try to "impress." people know they might never have what you have so don't bother flaunting your good fortune. most people i meet believe that you are only as wealthy as you have friends.

now i'm not saying any of the above applies to anyone here in particular. it's just a collection of small rants that i hope will give people a different perspective. i am no expert, but the above works for me.

be safe and be nice.
country john

[Pablito Diablito]

and what does being a wanna be gangster has to do with our hobby mongering?

well, i don't get the chance to hang out with a lot of wanna be gangsters en el norte, that has just never been by peer group.

in tj, and specifically the zona, i find myself rubbing shoulders with a lot of characters. making small talk with someone at a taco cart or waiting in line at the pharmacy, i just want to get a feel for the environment, know my surroundings, so that just in case i do get a bad feeling, i can split.

of course i don't take everything this guy says seriously, but he does hold a common perspective that i should at least acknowledge and then evaluate against my own experiences, this board and other media sources.

personally, i think that tj is a dangerous place, but then so is detroit, washington dc and oakland. i'm not going to let this guy stop me from traveling, but i do want to know how to handle myself well and get a good read of the people around me.

[Louie OK]

Here is some new or different, yet disturbing info:

http://*******.com/58vmqr

http://*******.com/5w3xcr


How on earth people can actually believe that the military is clean (or are the good guys) is beyond me.
How it will affect most US citizens in MX remains to be seen.
I'd guess that the killings are likely to subside while the various smaller cartels get conquered by a newer
government monopoly-run cartel that will then be in charge.
This will probably give us much of the same-ol same-old things we are used to.

[TonySoprano]

In reading some of the reading some of the report, I couldn't help but notice the wanna be narcos tone.

And what does being a wanna be gangster has to do with our hobby mongering?

[Pablito Diablito]

Queres mas?'nice claim"


AFO's innovative strategy is befriending and recruiting 'juniors'--young, educated men of middle-and upper-class families living on both sides of the San Diego-Tijuana border. AFO uses them as drug runners and hit men.

¿Quieres más?

Granted this is a great strategy, the juniors are still expendable employees. La fama is not conducive to the long term growth of an underground enterprise.

By the way, good articles.

[Pablito Diablito]

A drug cartel will kill anyone, and if you hit on their girl your gone amigo, you never met one to know them.

And the car club vato was killed for trying to hit on the cartel members girl. (trying to date her outside the bar)

How far outside the bar? Las Cascadas is about as far as we ever want to go. I tell her it is too dangerous to walk all the way to the ATM.

[El Tijuanense]

The Mexican Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mouriño who died in a plane crash in the capital last month is considered by many as an inside job.
His life and rise to power has raised many eyebrows well before his death. At the time of the crash, he was under investigation.

I'm not sure if he had already resigned from his position at his untimely passing.
Though I am sure that he had many colleagues that are now happy that he won't ever get to talk.

Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino was disliked by many,he had Spanish Citizenship also which raised suspicion, so he death was welcome news to many of his political rivals. It was an inside JOB.

[Louie OK]

.......Did you hear that a plane crashed in Mexico City? In had the second most important Mexican official after the Prez and it had the Mexican security guy who is in charge of fighting the cartels, in total 9 died.

The Mexican Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mouriño who died in a plane crash in the capital last month is considered by many as an inside job.
His life and rise to power has raised many eyebrows well before his death. At the time of the crash, he was under investigation.
I'm not sure if he had already resigned from his position at his untimely passing.
Though I am sure that he had many colleagues that are now happy that he won't ever get to talk.

[El Tijuanense]

Nice claim.

Queres mas?'nice claim"

http://www.drugstory.org/feature/felixfamily.html

From the beginning, the Arellano Felixes were adept at melding into Tijuana's moneyed class and recruiting the wealthy sons of business and professional elites, dubbed "narco juniors," as hit men. They also recruited assassins from gangs in the Barrio Logan section of San Diego, who, among other hits, tried to kill Blancornelas, editor of the newspaper Zeta.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../business/afo/

AFO's innovative strategy is befriending and recruiting 'juniors'--young, educated men of middle-and upper-class families living on both sides of the San Diego-Tijuana border. AFO uses them as drug runners and hit men. 'Juniors' get involved with the cartel not necessarily to become wealthy but for "la fama"--the fame of the gangster life. This is the story of what happened to one of these young men, told by his family and a fellow 'junior.'

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...1m8tjkill.html

Baja California law enforcement officials have connected Escobosa to the "narco-juniors," sons of prominent Tijuana families who became involved with the Arellano Felix drug cartel. However, Escobosa's mother told a Tijuana radio station last week that her son owned gas stations and was not involved in crime.

[El Tijuanense]

Nice claim.

Here it is ,you don't know jack

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m..._1m25baja.html

TIJUANA – José Alberto Márquez is a U.S. citizen whose name has been linked by authorities to two of Mexico's most notorious crimes: the 1993 killing of Guadalajara Cardinal Jesús Posadas Ocampo and the attempted assassination in 1997 of Tijuana editor Jesús Blancornelas.

Mexican law enforcement officials yesterday announced the capture of Márquez, also known as "El Dingbat" and "El Bat," plus eight alleged accomplices in a working-class neighborhood in eastern Tijuana early Saturday.

For years, authorities said, Márquez headed a group of killers that settled scores for the violent Arellano Félix drug cartel. The victims often were members of rival drug gangs, or people who owed money or drugs to the cartel.

Mexican authorities said Márquez is a member of the Mexican Mafia gang in California and a key figure in San Diego's Barrio Logan gang, which has supplied killers to the Arellano cartel.

Márquez was wanted on both sides of the border and had fled to Mexico to avoid capture by U.S. authorities, who wanted him for violating parole, Santiago Vasconcelos said.

Mexican investigators have linked Márquez to at least 20 killings in Mexico and believe he could be linked to more, said Baja California attorney general Antonio Martínez Luna.

Márquez was part of a group of Barrio Logan gang members linked to the slaying of Mexican Cardinal Ocampo and to the attempted assassination of Blancornelas, Santiago Vasconcelos said. Blancornelas' bodyguard, Luís Alberto Valero, died in the attack.

Márquez's group "is not an independent organization," Santiago Vasconcelos said, but part of the Arellano hierarchy. Several of the detainees told investigators they had been working with the Arellanos since 1992, he said.

[El Tijuanense]

The mongers I mentioned were American. That being said I don't believe that a monger was tortured and carved into pieces by cartel members as Tijuanense claims. As I said before, it would have been in all the newspapers on both sides of the border.

The guy was actually a car member that lived in Tijuana,he crossed the border legally,so i have no idea if he was a US Citizen.

But he was a monger that took it to far.

[El Tijuanense]

I bet the 4 year old was killed because he was hitting on one of the bar girls.

In all reality, the four year old was most likely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Innocent victim in the line of fire. And all due to the drug syndicates. I doubt any of it had to do with guys trying to date a bar girl.

There's already too much heat going on that I really doubt a drug cartel guy would kill a guy over a girl.

A drug cartel will kill anyone, and if you hit on their girl your gone amigo, you never met one to know them.

And the car club vato was killed for trying to hit on the cartel members girl. (trying to date her outside the bar)

[Efjayel]

I bet the 4 year old was killed because he was hitting on one of the bar girls.

In all reality, the four year old was most likely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Innocent victim in the line of fire. And all due to the drug syndicates. I doubt any of it had to do with guys trying to date a bar girl.

There's already too much heat going on that I really doubt a drug cartel guy would kill a guy over a girl.

[Pablito Diablito]

And you do know some assasins are gangsters from SAn Diego barrio logan or kids from wealthy TJ familias called 'juniors'. You obviously don't know jack. How do i know all this :}

Nice claim.