2007 South China - Dongguan

[Pointpanic]

Some of these fucking guys really [CodeWord140] me off! That's why I have not posted recently.

Met a newbie and took him to one of my favourite shops. Told him not to pay more than 100 to mommie and 100 to the girl. I lectured him about not spoiling the market. 2 hours later, at dinner, this guy says "I gave the girl 150". He later called me on the phone asking for more info, and I told him to get lost.

Bill and I recently discovered some new cheap shops and a sauna. I'm not saying where. I will now only tell those I can trust.

OWL. You payed the ktv girl how much? 1500rmb + a tip of 800rmb? Because she stayed until noon instead of 8 am? What kind of fucking bullshit is that? Either you are stupid, you are lying, or you just don't give a rat's arse. Now be honest, which is it? And I remember you also paid 500rmb for ST to a streetwalker in Zhuhai after Bill told you it is only 200. What do you want us to do, admire your generosity?

Santa, my friend Jeff is coming to CP on June 14 or so. He is an ABC and will
not overpay. He will contact Bill Lee after arrival. He would love to go the cheap shops and sauna.

[Moody]

The more you beat up the newbies for their natural generosity, the worse you look. You should explain to them that the girls only see them as money sources, not sources for romantic relationships. Big tips would not buy more affection or respect, but only make the girls think of them as fools. But you have to admit it's very nice to feel you can buy some romance in addition to the physical sex. There are those who just want physical sex, as cheap as possible. There are others who may want more romantic feelings with sex. Just accept that different people want different things and are willing to pay different rates.

This statement is self contradictory and wrong in sooooooooooo many ways I don't know where to start.... but I'll try.

First of all, since the rest of us pay the girls AFTERWARDS, how the hell is she even supposed to know you're trying to buy some "romance" or as the rest of us call it, GFE. Do you tell her before the deed you're going to give her $XXX extra if she's extra friendly??? Do you tell her that you'll give her an extra 10RMB for each cuddle and an extra 20RMB for each time she fake moans? Please let us know how it is exactly you get around to letting the girl know you're interested in buying some extra GFE. I'm sure there are members here who would like to know.

Second, if the girls think you're nothing but a fool for giving extra money, why on earth would she have romantic feelings towards you? Do you know many girls who get romantic feelings when they see a fool? I sure as hell don't. Why do you think hookers are any different? If anything, their "sucker" radar will go off and they'll try to take you for whatever they can.

As for paying different rates, that's nonsense. Lets say you're really thirsty. Do you go to the 7-11 and offer to pay the cashier more for the bottled water because you're extra thirsty?? Do you offer to pay more if he smiles really nice at you or puts it in the plastic bag just the way you like it?? I bet you don't. Everybody pays the same for the same bottle of water. Why do you think hookers are any different? After you gave that girl 500RMB, half an hour later she was back hustling the streets willing to take on all comers for $200RMB. What did you gain? Did you extra service from her? Of course not since most likely, you paid her right before she left. Did you get any extra "romance" for the 300RMB? Again doubtful since she's on her way out when you give her the money. Did the next guy who only gave her 200RMB get worst service?? Very doubtful and I'm almost willing to bet he got the exact same level of service for his 200RMB. Was the girl any less romantic with the next guy? Again doubtful since SOP is to pay AFTER the session. Hell, she might have even been more GFE with her next customer if he spoke some reasonable Mandarin.

Listen, if you want to tip the girls exorbitant amounts because it makes you feel better about yourself, then go right ahead. If you want to give them extra money for a job well done, again, go right ahead. If you want to give them the last 800RMB in your pocket because you like to only carry money in thousand RMB increments, again go ahead. Please don't try to rationalize it though, by saying nonsense like you're buying "romance" for the extra money because that's just crap.

Once again, you're misleading other noobies. They're gonna read you're post and think it's possible to buy extra GFE for a tip when that's just NOT the case. GFE is all about you and all about the girl. If you click, you'll get it. If you don't, she'll be a living breathing fuck doll.

[One Wing Low]

...and friendly. That's just their nature.

I was doing jungle trekking with a bunch of Australians and Europeans. We passed by a remote village in the middle of the jungle. There was a bunch of kids line up on the road, chanting and laughing '...Hello ... America...' That pissed off the Australians and the Europeans. Well, the tour recommends against giving out candy and gifts for fear of spoiling the expectations and attitudes of these children, but it looked like some Americans just could not help themselves at spoiling these kids...

In that sense, I agree that big tips are bad ways to deal with anyone, including the girls, the hotel staff etc... Meaningful gifts are better than throwing money around, but who the hell have time to shop for gifts on the road??

In the case of the Walter foot massage girl, I gave her 50 RMB tip because I had no small change. It was less than US$7 but I was surprised that she was so shocked by it. In the final analysis, she was just playing us, because she had my friend's mobile and she never called him back in the next couple days. I would love to fuck her all night. She was that attractive.

I gave an honest experience so the newbies understand that 50RMB was a big amount to local people. So they should use discretion how much tip to give. I am certainly a lot more careful after that. I just got unfairly attacked by these rude guys. If the rude guys keep attacking people, pretty soon this forum would be all the same rude guys, talking the same bull shit, with no tolerance for any good, honest info or any differences in opinions.

The more you beat up the newbies for their natural generosity, the worse you look. You should explain to them that the girls only see them as money sources, not sources for romantic relationships. Big tips would not buy more affection or respect, but only make the girls think of them as fools. But you have to admit it's very nice to feel you can buy some romance in addition to the physical sex. There are those who just want physical sex, as cheap as possible. There are others who may want more romantic feelings with sex. Just accept that different people want different things and are willing to pay different rates.

BTW, I told all the BBS girls in CP about my close friend Santa, who is a very nice guy and extremely wealthy and generous. You can expect these girls to expect big tips from you from now on. Also expect them to grab you by your hairy balls until you cough out the big tips...

Some of these fucking guys really [CodeWord140] me off! That's why I have not posted recently.

Bill and I recently discovered some new cheap shops and a sauna. I'm not saying where. I will now only tell those I can trust.

OWL. You payed the ktv girl how much? 1500rmb + a tip of 800rmb? Because she stayed until noon instead of 8 am? What kind of fucking bullshit is that? Either you are stupid, you are lying, or you just don't give a rat's arse. Now be honest, which is it? And I remember you also paid 500rmb for ST to a streetwalker in Zhuhai after Bill told you it is only 200. What do you want us to do, admire your generosity?

[Santa]

Some of these fucking guys really [CodeWord140] me off! That's why I have not posted recently.

Met a newbie and took him to one of my favourite shops. Told him not to pay more than 100 to mommie and 100 to the girl. I lectured him about not spoiling the market. 2 hours later, at dinner, this guy says "I gave the girl 150". He later called me on the phone asking for more info, and I told him to get lost.

Bill and I recently discovered some new cheap shops and a sauna. I'm not saying where. I will now only tell those I can trust.

OWL. You payed the ktv girl how much? 1500rmb + a tip of 800rmb? Because she stayed until noon instead of 8 am? What kind of fucking bullshit is that? Either you are stupid, you are lying, or you just don't give a rat's arse. Now be honest, which is it? And I remember you also paid 500rmb for ST to a streetwalker in Zhuhai after Bill told you it is only 200. What do you want us to do, admire your generosity?

[One Wing Low]

I was trying to feel her up, grabbing her legs etc...but she resisted. At that time, I was not even sure if she would go to bed with me. We did have a lot of fun kidding around with her for 2 hours. She was even trying to teach me some simple Chinese...My friend thought they were all pros working in massage places in hotels.

Her grand mother came from the same region as my friend. They spoke the same language. She was telling us about the hardships of ethnic people in China. So the relationship became more personal than commercial. My friend wanted to visit her grand mother to see how they have been doing relative to the average Chinese.

She was very attractive in nice, clean ways. If I had known I could take her out, I would have bought her out. 45 RMB per hour is a very good deal. I admit that it was a big tip, but I had no small change. Besides I wanted this girl so bad, partly due to her tall, lanky, sexy figure, which was rare even among KTV girls, partly because of the hardships that her family went through being ethnic minority in that region...

There are all different kinds of people in forums like these. A few have shown they can only see life in terms of money, money, money...

OWL,

A big spender like you should know that you can buy the foot massage girls out by just paying the house for the time.

OAH

[Moody]

...so, please don't all jump on owl as he does contribute and helps us discuss issues such as this one.

have you read his posts? if i were a noob and saw his post stating that he gave a ktv girl 800rmb because she stayed until noon, i might very well do exactly that if some girl stayed with me until then. i've been to enough ktv and i know exactly what to do, but what about the noob? he'll just fork it over not knowing any better. if owl came out saying he liked the girl, she made him really happy, and that he wanted to give her the money, or even that he didn't know any better. that would have been cool. instead he offers this really bad rationalization/excuse which can easily mislead someone who doesn't know any better.

did you read when he posted that if you get confronted by 4 guys you should pick up a pipe (as if a pipe is just gonna happen to be laying around) or kick them in the nuts. doing something like that is either gonna get you a serious beat down or dead. yes bruce lee can take on 4 guys at once, but he can also knock down a guy with a 1 inch punch. until you can do that, just give the guys what they want. don't think they're afraid to tangle with a laowai because of heat from the authorities, that's just not true. what do you think is the more likely scenario if they accidentally beat you to death? they report it to the authorities and get sent to the firing squad, or they make your body disappear. basically, owl dispenses really bad advice and he has to be called out on it if he does.

what's really funny though, is he comes in and says i over tipped a girl for giving her an extra 100rmb. he tells me i should have negotiated for a 2nd round. he just assumed it was a 200rmb hooker when in reality it was a girl from a high end ktv. a little later though, he's back with his redundant explanation about how tipping the ktv girl 800rmb was ok because she stayed with him til noon. that's just hypocrisy in motion and lame excuses because that's not how ktv works. he obviously enjoys playing the big spender and he's obviously got some richard gere "pretty woman" thing going on in him. that's all fine, but he really shouldn't be criticizing other peeps and telling them what to do if he really doesn't have a clue.

the guy comes to china a few times and he thinks he's all that and knows it all and posts in a tone where it comes off like he's some smack-fu master. that's just not the case. i'm sure the regulars are fully aware he's barely more knowledgeable than a noob. the regs though, don't want the noobs thinking his posts are good advice.

[Azn Playa]

I rate your entire original post as a POD - spot on.

-John, once again rationalizes via excuses:

1. I am only one guy, I can't spoil the market
2. It's my money and I can do what I want with it
3. I have a serious personality disorder and need to feel wanted and appreciated
4. Fuck those guys on ISG, I never was a team player and never will be
5. Mind your own damn business
6. Insert any other insult, excuse, selfish response.

The only ones who really have a legit excuse are the guys who have never heard of ISG...can this be true?

Not really - there are countless mongering boards out there for every location in the world.

Mongers know what others are doing and what they are paying.

Every time I hear one of those 6 reponses I get more worked up each time
(and I have a range of abusive verbal retorts which I have used in the past).

6... actually I better make that 4.
#3 is hilarious, and
#4 is N/A as I don't know anyone on ISG.

[Round Two]

My thoughts on how the swinging dicks spoil the market:

-John see girl he likes
-Mommy see's laowai (or non regular)
-Mommy quotes him 300 rmb
-John rationalizes by thinking 300 rmb is only $35 USD (insert your own currency here) to fuck an 18 year old Chinese cutie
-John considers he could NEVER score with such a honey back home because he is (insert any excuse here old/ugly/fat/married, etc.)
-John can't speak putonghua or has no idea that bartering is a hobby of Chinese people so he simply agrees.
-John busts a nut (either via good or bad service), but feels obligated to give the girl some sugar money because he (insert excuse: really likes her, felt guilty, felt ashamed, showing off, felt there was some real bonding, trying to score an 18 yo gf, needed to thin his fat wallet, help those poor/needy girls in China).
-Girl goes back to shop to tell all her friends about the big spender
-Girls in shop now want laowai (non reg) because they want the fat tips
-After sometime of this, mommy decides she wants a bigger piece of the pie so increases the downpayment for the pussy.
-Regulars go to get a shot only to be told of price increase, then come to ISG and complain about it and tell others don't spoil the market for everyone.
-John, once again rationalizes via excuses:

1. I am only one guy, I can't spoil the market
2. It's my money and I can do what I want with it
3. I have a serious personality disorder and need to feel wanted and appreciated
4. Fuck those guys on ISG, I never was a team player and never will be
5. Mind your own damn business
6. Insert any other insult, excuse, selfish response.
-SZE

I am unsure if there is such a thing as being a team player of ISG, but most of your points are very well taken. I also think that OWL was posting his experiences and thoughts and most just jumped on him. Really, when it comes down to it, it's HIS money and point #2 above is simply too strong of a reason to turn back.

Let me give you some points that might be reasonable for the same John that wasn't discussed.

1. John is drunk and/or tired and doesn't feel like haggling over a few dollars/euros. They always convert RMB to their local currency. Don't ask me why people do this as I still don't have a clue of it. They are in China now, they should play by China rules, but their brains keep using today's exchange rates.

2. John wants sex and already has a hard enough time with his huge Lao Wai dick that makes him compelled to pay more to even get serviced. John has been turned away enough times by the mamasan's as many girls don't want to service him. It's hard to get the true market when the only girl willing to service him wants double and will not budge on the price.

3. John doesn't see any TEAM around him. He is there alone and forgets that his actions *will* change the market.

4. John took economics 101 and understands *all* markets reach equilibrium at some point if given proper exposure so whatever will occur is inevitable. Especially with the Olympics coming to China. Hopefully, these places are all cleaned up during the time of the Olympics so that when they come back open for business, prices will be in the same ballpark.

5. John is new to the game and feels he did haggle to get the price down from 500RMB ST to 400RMB. And gives himself a pat on the back for his efforts.

*ISG gives exposure to the working girls and their environments, there are countless lurkers that never post that use this information and quietly move prices up. So, please don't all jump on OWL as he does contribute and helps us discuss issues such as this one.

#2 point is the biggest weakness that I see. What do you think?

[Wadman]

The Hui Mei mommys all try to get 100 RMB from me too. I cannot remember how many girls I have taken from the hotel on the left side of the alley, but every time the mommy asks for 100 + 100; only to quickly agree to 50 RMB after I refuse.

Yup, the Hui Mei mommies try to get 200 rmb out of me too. I don't get a girl behind the Hui Mei very often, so the mommies don't recognize me. If I am alone, or in company with no laowais, it usually only takes 1 or 2 verbal refusals to bring the price down to 150. With laowais in the group, it's much harder, and often the mommies only agree after you threaten to walk away.

[Wadman]

But what OWL does is overtipping and making harder for us to keep the price down when we come back from overseas. And it makes it harder for our local friends to keep the price down. We come here for the hot honeys and the great price.

...
Why spoil it? Don't forget it's the locals here such as AG, OAH and JK666 who provided good info as to where to go. Now, you're fucking it up for them. Do you think that they will provide additional information on the next great place when people on the board, such as the lurkers here, come in and fuck it up?

Bill

Couldn't have said better myself, Bill.

To those of you who only drop in once in a blue moon, an extra 100 rmb here and there will not amount to much (to your pocket). You pay the little bit extra and then you go home.

But for those of us who live and play here permanently, it adds up. After a while, the locals realize that 100 rmb is not as little as it first seemed. In the US, 150 rmb gets you a meal, here you can fuck a girl for that amount.

So if punters who read this board want to go ahead and overtip/overpay, there's nothing the locals can do to stop you, but they are already getting pissed off and are less keen to post reports divulging new info. Which means, that in the end, it is the newbies that get hurt financially, because without new, accurate info you are sure to pay more at some point.

[Batman]

Your report on "swinging dicks spoiling the market" is right on the money and I REALLY wish more could read it, not only in this forum but ALL the forums. You have a near pefect understanding of the big picture not only here but almost all of the mongering locations I have ever been. I am the typical old guy who is directly effected by the swinging dicks who wonder in and start throwing money around.
I am sure some will dissagree and some will just call me cheap. I know I am cheap.

Will you buy me a beer now?

[Old Mean Dog]

The footie girls always try to sweet talk me, Downunder96, Gogo Bob and Gentilman Jim can attest to this. I am certainly not handsome (AG, I am still waiting for my grade) and I have been in China long enough to know, they are just trying to squeeze an extra hour out of me. One cute footie girl even offered her "virginity" to me for 1,000 rmb, of course I would need to buy another hour of massage to discuss details.

Personally, small tips are cool with me. I often give the footie girl 10 or 15 rmb, if it's a really good job, but I would never tip her more than the foot massage itself, then of course if she banged me or blew me in the chair I might.

My thoughts on how the swinging dicks spoil the market:

-John see girl he likes
-Mommy see's laowai (or non regular)
-Mommy quotes him 300 rmb
-John rationalizes by thinking 300 rmb is only $35 USD (insert your own currency here) to fuck an 18 year old Chinese cutie
-John considers he could NEVER score with such a honey back home because he is (insert any excuse here old/ugly/fat/married, etc.)
-John can't speak putonghua or has no idea that bartering is a hobby of Chinese people so he simply agrees.
-John busts a nut (either via good or bad service), but feels obligated to give the girl some sugar money because he (insert excuse: really likes her, felt guilty, felt ashamed, showing off, felt there was some real bonding, trying to score an 18 yo gf, needed to thin his fat wallet, help those poor/needy girls in China).
-Girl goes back to shop to tell all her friends about the big spender
-Girls in shop now want laowai (non reg) because they want the fat tips
-After sometime of this, mommy decides she wants a bigger piece of the pie so increases the downpayment for the pussy.
-Regulars go to get a shot only to be told of price increase, then come to ISG and complain about it and tell others don't spoil the market for everyone.
-John, once again rationalizes via excuses:

1. I am only one guy, I can't spoil the market
2. It's my money and I can do what I want with it
3. I have a serious personality disorder and need to feel wanted and appreciated
4. Fuck those guys on ISG, I never was a team player and never will be
5. Mind your own damn business
6. Insert any other insult, excuse, selfish response.

The only ones who really have a legit excuse are the guys who have never heard of ISG...can this be true?

Just my thoughts

-SZE

[Moody]

What's wrong with tipping? Spoiling the market? It's a free market to do as one pleases. I understand your point, but I also understand that tipping makes people very happy, both giver and taker. As for the pot calling the kettle black, we all catch ourselves doing that sometimes.

There's nothing wrong with tipping. Every now and then, I've been known to tip. The thing is though, if a guy tells a KTV girl he's giving her an extra 800RMB because she stayed with him until noon, pretty soon, that's going to become something expected. She'll ask and expect it from the next guy and to be honest, what's she got to lose by asking? At worst she'll get what she's supposed to get, and best case she makes an extra 800. Furthermore, things like that get around quick and in no time, every girl that works at her KTV will know some guy gave her an extra 800 for staying until noon. It's not a big stretch to think that after a little while, all the girls that work there will expect this kind of compensation if they stay a little late.

[Bill Lee]

The low end as we know it for ST, the Catacomb for 30RMB. The Yalan for 200, the night market for 150 and the Hui Mei alley for 150. There's also the KTV but I don't know what they are since I haven't done one over 5 years. But you search on the board, you're find out.

LT at Yalan and alley is 500.

That's the pricing structure I know of.

Bill

I thought the going rate is 300 ST(100 for mommy, 200 for girl), 500 LT. thats what all the previous post said, and thats what I used as basis when I went to CP.

[Superforce99]

Been a long while since I went to CP and it was nice to meet up with Santa, Bill, and Wadmad, although it was briefly since I spent most of my time fucking or sleeping. Well, it's CP after, what else you going to do?

Gal #1 from behind Hui Mei, not so sure the exact location, just followed Bill. Mama ofcourse wanted 200 but just pretend to walk out and you'll get the 150 price. She does that with EVERY customer, it's almost not serious, and if for some reason the dude pays, then, well, she earns an extra 50 with little consequence. I actually pointed out to Bill the white dude/HK dude who paid the 200 (saw them pay 200 upfront as they left and the mama commenting to another mama in their dialect "200 paid"). Obviously, these dudes don't read this board so they paid that amount and that's that. If they DO read this board AND paid, then let me be the first to say, "You two dumb ass fuck-sticks, what's wrong with you guys??"

Anyway, the gal was from Dongbei somewhere and was touted as a former sauna gal, great service, etc. etc...but turned out to be very SOP and very average service. Not good, not bad, and enough to extract my semen. 50 upfront to mama and 100 happily accepted by gal after deed in hotel and gone from my my room.

Gal #2 from Yalan BBS, not sure which one, followed Bill again. A Hubei gal who mama promised would give oustanding service, CIM, etc. etc. and the gal even confirmed all this personally. One, again, very SOP and very average service. Not good, not bad, and enough to extract more of my semen. No, wait, after a while fucking, I told her to BBBJCIM which she did with no problem, but after 10-15 min of BBBJ, it wasn't going to happen and I didn't really want to force out perfectly useful semen that could be coaxed out by another gal. 100 upfront to mama and 100 happily accepted by gal after deed in hotel. Added 15 taxi money (yes, I know she'll take 5 RMB moto but I felt so sorry for the poor poor girl...strangely, her eyes didn't light up nor did she seemed pleasantly shocked by the extra 10. Unappreciative ****).

Gal #3 from Yalan BBS, not sure which one but from some fat mamasan with the generic name "hua nu (flower girl)" which I made fun of so she told me her real name was Ms. Huang something-something. Anyway, plump, sassy, and happy gal. Pushed a cute gal on me who turned out to be "18" and from Hubei, yet again. (In ZH, many gals are all from Hunan) She actually gave me bad vibes after arriving to my hotel and sitting around with a sour look and disinterested attitude. Didn't really want to kick her out immediately because, well, we are basically paying young gals who don't want to fuck us to fuck us and that human element of the deal is always tricky. Even though I'm younger and not obviously foreign-looking like a lot of ISG buddies, I'm still in the same boat. Could have had a dead fish experience, but didn't want that and, even more pathetic/tragic I wouldn't rough-fuck-pound the gal as "revenge" or some nonsense like that. So...tried to be friendly, show her some interesting BS on my laptop, and make her laugh a bit. It takes time and is tedious, I know, but in the end, the service was, unsurprisingly good and GFE. I couldn't believe that in the end, it took more than 2 hours from beginning to end (sorry, that's why I was MIA for dinner to you guys in CP). 100 upfront to mama and 100 + 15 happily accepted by gal.

Gal #4 was a recommendation from Jojo in the Yalan area. She's the young gal in braces and with decent English skills. Awesome recommendation and was very natural, fun, and GFE just like Jojo said. Very chatty, playful, and fun to talk to and just watch TV with. Oh, yeah, very soft, white translucent skin and tight pussy. Petite breasts and a bit of baby fat, but that's not a bad thing in my opinion. And, yes, from Hubie, yet again (OAH, just goes to show you not all Hubei experiences are bad!). Did her once and lots of chatting, BBBJ/DATY while watching TV, then sleep. I was basically fucked out after this 6-hour CP fuck fest.

In the morning, only saw 1 HK monger and his gal at breakfast at the Miraton (8:30am is probably too early). Then went back and did some work while gal #4 slept until 11:30 am. She woke up, showered, we fucked again, then I sent her on her way with 100 upfront to Jojo and 400 to gal + 15 happily accepted.

Returned to ZH in the afternoon with my feelings about CP reconfirmed; I can't think of another place where the options for low-to-mid range young Chinese gals are so numerous and efficiently offered to extract my semen. But because of it's lack of non-mongering activities it's still a place where I do "Delta Force mongering": drop in, drop some loads, and then get the fuck out.

Thanks again, Uncle Bill-cey for playing the "bad cop/vet monger" role to balance my "good cop/ignorant monger" role.

J

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.