Quincas in Brazil

[Quincas]

Exec Talent, it also must be admitted, has a decided talent for flaming anyone whose opinion he doesn't like.

It should also be noted that he was ranting about Joe's book years before the damned thing was even published, so I doubt he's unbiased in the information he gives out.

[Quincas]

You walked from Centro all the way to Copacabana?!! WOW!

Well, from Glória, actually. It's maybe an hour and a half walk and not too bad.

[Bravo]

Most years, they sell metro tickets for NYE in advance and you need to go down on a certain time. Metro has run all night in recent years, I believe.

Unless you buy a metro ticket in advance, you'd better get down to the beach from centro by, say midday, because soon after that, you won't be able to get a space on a bus or in a taxi for love nor money.

'Course, you could always walk, which is what I did a couple of years ago. Or rent a bike - better idea yet.

Even if you buy a metro ticket in advance, the last time I went via metro it was so fucking packed I had a panic attack. (The fact that I ate a magic brownie before hitting the metro didn't help, but still)

You walked from Centro all the way to Copacabana?!! WOW!

[Quincas]

Different strokes for different folks, Exec Talent.

[Quincas]

Most years, they sell metro tickets for NYE in advance and you need to go down on a certain time. Metro has run all night in recent years, I believe.

Unless you buy a metro ticket in advance, you'd better get down to the beach from centro by, say midday, because soon after that, you won't be able to get a space on a bus or in a taxi for love nor money.

'Course, you could always walk, which is what I did a couple of years ago. Or rent a bike - better idea yet.

Even if you buy a metro ticket in advance, the last time I went via metro it was so fucking packed I had a panic attack. (The fact that I ate a magic brownie before hitting the metro didn't help, but still)

[Quincas]

I seriously doubt that statement, but just for benefit of a doubt would you please tell me what do you see as brasilian middle class?

Strict definition, friend: the folks in the middle in economic terms. People in the upper 5th of the economy and below the top 5%. Generally have some degree of college education, making around 2000 reais per month or more. I am not talking about the people who make 25,000 reais a month and think that they are middle class because they live in an exclusive condo in Barra da Tijuca and can pay for the kind of lifestyle they see on American T.V.

As a concrete example, two people I know who just used SUS: one to deal with a prostate problem and the second to deal with cancer. The first's a sixty-something manager at a downtown bank. The second's a grad student in her late '30s. Both have private plans and used them to get a second opinion. Both decided that the treatment they'd get from SUS was, all things considered, better and more convenient. The first got sick of trying to convince his health plan that he had a real problem and the second's being treated in INCA, which is hands down one of Brazil's best cancer institutes, for all that it's SUS.

By contrast, another friend, the daughter of a wealthy artist, decided that she wasn't going to have her baby in the public system (though public maternities are generally good in Rio). She paid top dollar for private care and her baby got strangeled in the umbilical chord coming out. Several minutes without oxygen and we still don't know what the long term effects - if any - will be.

Well I've been living in Brasil for quite a few years and I'm almost fluent with portuguese language and I'm perfectly capable of reading local newspapers and last but not least I have seen quite a few news in television to support my vision about brasilian public healthcare.

And you've never heard similar stories coming out of the private system? Hell, Perk, either your Portuguese isn't as good as you think it is or you're not paying attention. Do a Google on "Cássia Eller", just for starters.

Health care in general is a toss of the dice. In Brazil that goes double. But "private" isn't a synonym of "quality" there and neither does "public" mean "crap". The correct question is "Which private or public institution?" They are not uniform quality.

INCA is great. Miguel Couto is generally good. The hospital out near Vila da Penha? One of the best in the world for traumatic gunshot wounds, given all the practice they get from the Complexo do Alemão. U.S. Special Forces used to train there pre-Iraq, or so I hear.

But the University Hospital? Used to be great, now it sucks - that's when it's not closed. And, like all things in Rio, quality takes a steep nose-dive to the degree that you move out from Centro and Zona Sul. I don't think I'll be testing the quality of public health care out in the suburbs of Duque de Caxias any time soon, thanks. At least not with my body.

If this all is not enough, my sister-in-law is a nurse. She tells quite a few stories. Even if I take out typical brasilian exageration the stories are pretty bad.

You can hear horror stories from health professionals even up here in Canada. This isn't new, nor is it specific to Brazil. And it certainly isn't specific to the Brazilian public system, Perk. I have very good Brazilian friends who are nurses, doctors and techs in the private system and they've also told me stories which would curl your hair. This is what health care professionals love to do when they are around laymen.

Please do share, which private hospital was worse than Miguel Couto? Just for me to know so I can avoid.

I was definitely not taken with Hemotrauma in Ipanema. During my bike accident, the emergency care I got from Miguel Couto was head and shoulders above the follow-up care I paid to get from Hemotrauma, supposedly one of the best places in town for ligament problems. They really sucked. Had me hobbling around on a fucked-up leg when wheelchairs where all over the place and the asshole doctor even told me to quit whining and suck it up like a man. This is three days after ripping out two ligaments in my left knee. Squeezed out the fluid in my knee without painkillers - which were freely given out over at Miguel Couto.

Wait a minute, wait for what? Aren't we talking about EMERGENCY? In a emergency you do not WAIT.

Right. Which is generally how I've ended up in public hospitals in the first place. But I usually use the public system to get a free second opinion on my health care plan, in any case.

Fantastic, you've been very lucky.

Not particularly lucky, no. Public hospitals' bad reputation is greatly overrated. I have had no complaints at all. Can't say the same for the private system.

I completely disagree your point of view on public healthcare in Brasil and my advice is to AVOID by all means. Your life is in line. I'd never go to public hospital.

Well, we've both got opinions. Let's put our opinions into perspective, shall we? I've used the Brazilian public health system over a dozen times, have plenty of friends who've used it and know many Brazilian health care professionals. You have never used it and seem to be going on the opinions of others. We've both got opinions, Perk, but really, my extensive first hand experience with the Brazilian health system makes me believe that ALL health care in Brazil is a roll of the dice, but that the public system - at least in the south zone - is certainly not the horror story you're making it out to be based on second and third hand reports.

While getting bad health care for free certainly sucks, nothing is worse than paying for [CodeWord140]-poor health care. Know your hospitals and what they specialize in: that's the key to getting decent care in Rio. Not simply painting all public institutions as worse and private institutions as better.

Anyway knowing... Rio, its better not to have anykind of emergency.

And that is something we can both agree on!

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Perkele]

Perkele,

I have used Brazilian public hospitals for emergencies on several occasions with no problems and no complaints (other than the wait and the general disinterest in me as a person). I have several Brazilian middle class friends who have also used them.

I seriously doubt that statement, but just for benefit of a doubt would you please tell me what do you see as brasilian middle class?

Your mileage may vary, but then again, you don't seem to ever have used Miguel Couto, so how would you know?

Well I've been living in Brasil for quite a few years and I'm almost fluent with portuguese language and I'm perfectly capable of reading local newspapers and last but not least I have seen quite a few news in television to support my vision about brasilian public healthcare.
If this all is not enough, my sister-in-law is a nurse. She tells quite a few stories. Even if I take out typical brasilian exageration the stories are pretty bad.
I do not need to go to Miguel Couto to know that even with emergency you might not get any assistance at all.
Insurance and COPA D'OR are best bet!

My comments are based on a lot of personal experience and also upon what many of my Brazilian friends will admit to when they are not talking p'ra gringo ver. Brazilians, in general, love to ***** about everything to gringos, especially if it involves public services and government. What they do, however, is not always what they say they do.

Well I do understand, but..... read my previous comment.

Public hospitals are not generally good for chronic problems. They are good for emergencies on the line of "give 'them meds and send 'them home" or traumatic accidents. I wouldn't go to one for, say, elective surgery. But for dealing with the results of a messy accident? I have receieved better treatment at Miguel Couto than at most private hospitals, to tell the truth.

Please do share, which private hospital was worse than Miguel Couto? Just for me to know so I can avoid.

The main problem with the public system from a middle class Brazilian perspective is that you need to wait (and the middle class wants to be treated right now, thank you) and you are treated as a piece of meat, not a patient (and Brazilians are notorious hyperchondriacs who want to feel that their every whim is being catered to while they are sick).

Wait a minute, wait for what? Aren't we talking about EMERGENCY? In a emergency you do not WAIT.

In the NE and out in the suburbs, there are some truly scary public hospitals and I don't think I'd go to these. But in Rio and São Paulo at least, my experiences with Miguel Couto and Hospital das Clínicas have been uniformly positive. And this is with close to a dozen passages through these two institutions' doors.

Fantastic, you've been very lucky.

Reiterating, I would not hesitate to use these hospitals and it strikes me that if your only other viable option is self-medication, in any case, at least they're a second opinion to your own.

I agree with you on self medication, do not do it. That's stupidest thing to do. On the otherhand, there is no need to go to hospital if you need just medication. There are lots of clinics all over the Rio where a doctor will see you and prescribes correct medication. Also these clinics are not very expensive, normally around 50 - 100 reais for a consult.

I completely disagree your point of view on public healthcare in Brasil and my advice is to AVOID by all means. Your life is in line. I'd never go to public hospital.

Also for those who are concerned of accidents and other kinds of medical emergencies I recommend to find out information of private ambulances. SAMU, which is public firedepartment run ambulance service may never arrive.
Anyway knowing the traffic in Rio, its better not to have anykind of emergency.

[Trafukin]

Confirmed yesterday that Luana is indeed at Black & White. I saw someone who I thought looked like her there awhile back and two Brazilian friends confirmed that she was indeed there.

B&W is a bit of a treck, but luckily is out on the main drag. Av. Brasil, iirc. Which means it's at least a straight shot from downtown.

Taxi will run you about 25 reais from the centro, 40-50 from Copa.

Prices are on the order of a second rate downtown termas. Slightly less than 4x4, again IIRC.

Thanks for the info. My friend that lives in Brasil is going this afternoon but glad to hear. I will be there for Natal/ Ano nova and will post pics of the grande bunda Luana!

[Quincas]

Honestly, now I must say that you have to be somekind of a joke. Even brasilians won't go to public hospitals unless the can't afford private ones.

Perkele,

I have used Brazilian public hospitals for emergencies on several occasions with no problems and no complaints (other than the wait and the general disinterest in me as a person). I have several Brazilian middle class friends who have also used them.

Your mileage may vary, but then again, you don't seem to ever have used Miguel Couto, so how would you know?

My comments are based on a lot of personal experience and also upon what many of my Brazilian friends will admit to when they are not talking p'ra gringo ver. Brazilians, in general, love to ***** about everything to gringos, especially if it involves public services and government. What they do, however, is not always what they say they do.

Public hospitals are not generally good for chronic problems. They are good for emergencies on the line of "give 'them meds and send 'them home" or traumatic accidents. I wouldn't go to one for, say, elective surgery. But for dealing with the results of a messy accident? I have receieved better treatment at Miguel Couto than at most private hospitals, to tell the truth.

The main problem with the public system from a middle class Brazilian perspective is that you need to wait (and the middle class wants to be treated right now, thank you) and you are treated as a piece of meat, not a patient (and Brazilians are notorious hyperchondriacs who want to feel that their every whim is being catered to while they are sick).

In the NE and out in the suburbs, there are some truly scary public hospitals and I don't think I'd go to these. But in Rio and São Paulo at least, my experiences with Miguel Couto and Hospital das Clínicas have been uniformly positive. And this is with close to a dozen passages through these two institutions' doors.

Reiterating, I would not hesitate to use these hospitals and it strikes me that if your only other viable option is self-medication, in any case, at least they're a second opinion to your own.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Quincas]

Confirmed yesterday that Luana is indeed at Black & White. I saw someone who I thought looked like her there awhile back and two Brazilian friends confirmed that she was indeed there.

B&W is a bit of a treck, but luckily is out on the main drag. Av. Brasil, iirc. Which means it's at least a straight shot from downtown.

Taxi will run you about 25 reais from the centro, 40-50 from Copa.

Prices are on the order of a second rate downtown termas. Slightly less than 4x4, again IIRC.

[Perkele]

Regarding getting sick in Rio, public health care is free even to tourists and is generally good, though you'll probably have wait in line. Miguel Couto in Leblon is the hospital to go to in an emergency: they treated me just fine a few years back when I had a bike accident on Copa. I also used them when I came down with dengue in 2001:

R. Mário Ribeiro, 117 - Leblon, Rio de Janeiro - RJ, 22430160

If you're worried about a bug that you may have picked up, this is a cheap and safe option.

Honestly, now I must say that you have to be somekind of a joke. Even brasilians won't go to public hospitals unless the can't afford private ones.

Its a known FACT that one may get treated really bad in public hospitals, espcecially in Rio. Also its rather common that most critical cases even die there.

What everyone should do is to have a very good travel insurance with FULL medical coverage.

If you stay in Copacabana and if you get sick, injured etc. you go to COPA D'OR, not Miguel Couto.

Quincas, you should be shot for giving such an advice.

[Quincas]

Regarding getting sick in Rio, public health care is free even to tourists and is generally good, though you'll probably have wait in line. Miguel Couto in Leblon is the hospital to go to in an emergency: they treated me just fine a few years back when I had a bike accident on Copa. I also used them when I came down with dengue in 2001:

R. Mário Ribeiro, 117 - Leblon, Rio de Janeiro - RJ, 22430160

If you're worried about a bug that you may have picked up, this is a cheap and safe option.

[Quincas]

if quincas is indeed macunaima, then this is a great news as i always enjoyed his very knowledgeable posts. welcome back mac!

mac, so what is your take on helpee's closure? when do you see it closing? how do you think the wc-olympics combo is going to alter the scene in rio?

sorry, sprite, i'm not mac. i know who you're talking about, however, because i've read wsg and i used to hang out on brazzil.com back when prosal was on that site, waxing enthusiastic about how brazilian women in general just love gringos.

[Sprite13]

if quincas is indeed macunaima, then this is a great news as i always enjoyed his very knowledgeable posts. welcome back mac!

mac, so what is your take on helpee's closure? when do you see it closing? how do you think the wc-olympics combo is going to alter the scene in rio?

[Trafukin]

Black & White is still open. Prices, last time I checked, were about the same as a mid-range downtown termas. Slightly less than 4x4, I believe. Last time I went (2 years ago), there were about 6 girls working the place and none of them were particularly pretty.

It is to fuck and gone far away outside of the center in Bonsuccesso. A 50+ real taxi ride from Copa and it is CERTAINLY nothing to write home about. Suburban termas rarely are.

For completists only. Otherwise, save your money and go downtown would be my opinion.

I heard Luana worked at Black and white that's the only reason I am intersted in going. I may give it a try but will be PISSED if she's not working there.