Racism against foreigners in Brazil

[Sperto]

Right, "Dona" is used in a meaning as a sign of respect. You can use it when you want to be polite to older people or when you want to kiss kiss someone's ass.

E. G: Let say you want to rent an apartment from "Maria". If you want to give her a good impression you address her as "Dona Maria".

[LittleTruths]

The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?

Sorry but this is the typical over-rationalization that keeps americans from calling things with their own name for the sake of political correctness.

It is complete and utter bullshit tho. Also, it shows you got issues.

"Dono" as you put it, means "owner"; plain and simple.

If you own some shit than you're the boss of it and that's it.

Bless.

P. S / This might easily be the most amusing thread ever seen on ISG. Keep up the good work I say!

[Mr Enternational]

Very good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?

Hmmm. I have never heard this word used as you are seeming to imply. The only way I have heard it used in Portuguese and in Spanish is the way you first mentioned, which was dono da casa or dono of a business when one person was talking to another in reference to someone else. I have never heard anyone say meu dono as in my owner or use the title directly intended for a person to whom they are speaking. I do agree though that racism is prevalent in Brasil. It's usually the whites who may try to ignore it, but to the blacks it is apparent.

[The Cane]

Like in many, many other countries around the world, racism is alive and well in Brazil. There's a reason why the blacks and the dark browns populate the majority of the lower rungs of the socioeconomic order, while the lighter ones hold the majority of the higher economic status. That said, I have to say that I have never experienced any racism perpetrated towards me by a Brazilian in any way, shape, or form. That happens to be one of the many reasons why I love the place. I can be in some other land only half a day and not feel comfortable!

I do realize that going down there as a free-spending tourist and staying out of trouble while keeping my nose clean certainly makes a difference in how I'm treated. But then again, there are some countries where you can go where your money won't mean a damn thing. You'll be treated like less than something equal, and that's that. I don't go to those countries! I think I could be quite happy being an upper-middle class Brazilian. Come to think of it, I would be quite happy being an upper-middle class anything! Hahaha!

The other thing I have to realize is that even if I have been to Brazil many times, you're only going to see so much as a tourist versus somebody who lives and works there every day. I know some people like that (white Americans) who have told me that racism in Brazil can be quite overt and extremely ugly, with the view getting uglier and uglier the more you travel to the South of the country. I've also heard that it can be pretty bad in the far Northeast where people of color make up a large majority of the population, but are still discriminated against and feared as criminals, et cetera by many whites.

I think Rio has the reputation of being the most egalitarian big city in the country, and indeed one of the most egalitarian places in the world. I still haven't decided if the "marvelous city" exactly deserves that reputation or not. I'll just leave it like this. Rio has been very, very good to me! LOL!

[Poucolouco]

I notice that you amended your post subsequent to my response. In my experience, the use of the 'en' word is repugnant to most people of all races. While Chris Rock and Chris Brown may use this word in their performances, I hope society in general does not view the political incorrectness of these performers as models for what is socially acceptable.

[Golfinho]

I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guys

Have a more thorough experience? Of course you do, so long as you think so.

Mix it up with Brasilians who spent alot of time in the USA the last four years and see if they don't get a read on who you are and where you are on the food chain, then see how much respect you merit.

[Poucolouco]

The literal translation of sir is senhor. The literal translation of dono is owner. The literal translation of patrão is boss.

With your example, using literal translation,"Owner / Master, here is your order, just as you requested." In most developed countries (English speaking) , the waiter or waitress would be offended should one advise and / or instruct to be addressed by such. Explaining that the title is no different than "sir" and is "polite" would likely be met with anger. Certainly, I would expect a lugie in your dish.

The slavery time-line would not consider the mid-19th century to be "ancient."

Excuse me, no offense intended. I did not make a literal translation but only commented on polite versus respectful forms of address. My English example was merely making a polite statement while not being respectful to the person being addressed. It was not intended to be a literal translation of portuguese. Peace.

[Amerioca]

While I agree with you that class discrimination is common in Brasil, addressing someone as dono (a) or patrão are merely using polite forms of address, similar to the English word sir. Their use does not necessarily connote the person deserves respect. I can deliver your steak, sizzling hot, medium rare, including the lugie that I just spit onto your plate with a smile and a polite comment, 'Sir, here is your order, just as you requested. ' While these words may have ancient threads related to slaves, modern usage does not infer a higher form of respect between classes.

The literal translation of sir is senhor. The literal translation of dono is owner. The literal translation of patrão is boss.

With your example, using literal translation,"Owner, here is your order, just as you requested." In most developed countries (English speaking) , the waiter or waitress would be offended should one advise and / or instruct to be addressed by such. Explaining that the title is no different than "sir" and is "polite" would likely be met with anger. Certainly, I would expect a nasty lugie in your dish.

Perhaps, the societal interpretation and usage of dono may have changed in recent times, much like the use of "nigger" in the U.S. It is all too common to hear "[Racial Epithet Deleted by Admin]" being used in modern American society to address an individual/person (of any ethnic background). What we are witnessing is a definition transformation into one of social acceptability.

Historically, I would not consider our most recent affair with slavery, in the mid-19th century, to be "ancient."

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited in accordance with the Forum's Zero Tolerance policy regarding reports containing racial epithets.

Please be advised that Forum Members who succeed in having three or more of their reports deleted for personal attacks, racial epithets or other derogatory comments, will be banned under the Forum's Serial Antagonist Policy.

[Poucolouco]

Very good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?

While I agree with you that class discrimination is common in Brasil, addressing someone as dono (a) or patrão are merely using polite forms of address, similar to the English word sir. Their use does not necessarily connote the person deserves respect. I can deliver your steak, sizzling hot, medium rare, including the lugie that I just spit onto your plate with a smile and a polite comment, 'Sir, here is your order, just as you requested. ' While these words may have ancient threads related to slaves, modern usage does not infer a higher form of respect between classes.

[Amerioca]

Mongers-

I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guys with significant time in Brasil because of age, language ability, looks, profession, etc. I can tell you one thing for sure: SOCIOECONOMIC CLASS is the number one indicator of how a person is viewed in Brasil. Brasil has a caste system so rigid that it almost rivals what goes on in India. The public education system in Brasil is horrible and functions as a Catch 22 in many ways (the best Universities are public and free, but passing entrance exam to the University is basically impossible to someone who attended public schools). Race really comes secondary although the darker the skin color in Brasil the lower the socioeconomic class is assumed (this is because there is absolutely no socioeconomic mobility). Hard racism in Brasil is absolutely illegal in Brasil (calling someone a slave or black will get you locked up) and nobody will blink an eye when people of different races are seen out together.

In my experience I have never encountered even the smallest amount of discrimination for being a foreigner. Again some of this may be based on my personal situation; a young nice looking fit guy hanging around with young nice looking fit girls. I have been around most areas of Brasil (Amazon, Bahia, Rio, Buzios, Floripa, Foz, SP, Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto) and have never been even slightly disrespected. Brasilians have always been very un-arrogant and welcoming.

Sorte,

Rock Harders

Very good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?

[Alex Deuce]

Huhn? Wow.

But, you are mostly likely correct in your assessment of Prozzle, who seems to have his nozzle too far up the Pernod bottle to realize that everyone posting here is not doing so exclusively for his personal predilection.

Write whatever you want, even it's totally illiterate. Who cares, as long as the info is accurate.

I will admit that I don't write well; However, the content is 100% accurate. Racism in Brazil is an extremely complex phenomena and does not fit nicely into pro white camp of world order.

[Rastaman]

[Racial Epithet(s) Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited in accordance with the Forum's Zero Tolerance policy regarding reports containing racial epithets.

Please be advised that Forum Members who succeed in having three or more of their reports deleted for personal attacks, racial epithets or other derogatory comments, will be banned under the Forum's Serial Antagonist Policy.

[Rock Harders]

Mongers-

I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guys with significant time in Brasil because of age, language ability, looks, profession, etc. I can tell you one thing for sure: SOCIOECONOMIC CLASS is the number one indicator of how a person is viewed in Brasil. Brasil has a caste system so rigid that it almost rivals what goes on in India. The public education system in Brasil is horrible and functions as a Catch 22 in many ways (the best Universities are public and free, but passing entrance exam to the University is basically impossible to someone who attended public schools). Race really comes secondary although the darker the skin color in Brasil the lower the socioeconomic class is assumed (this is because there is absolutely no socioeconomic mobility). Hard racism in Brasil is absolutely illegal in Brasil (calling someone a slave or black will get you locked up) and nobody will blink an eye when people of different races are seen out together.

In my experience I have never encountered even the smallest amount of discrimination for being a foreigner. Again some of this may be based on my personal situation; a young nice looking fit guy hanging around with young nice looking fit girls. I have been around most areas of Brasil (Amazon, Bahia, Rio, Buzios, Floripa, Foz, SP, Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto) and have never been even slightly disrespected. Brasilians have always been very un-arrogant and welcoming.

Sorte,
Rock Harders

[Prosal]

Yep, I stand my characterization of Europe as being trash

Difficult to argue with such a cultured and cosmopolitan person. Bye.

[Sperto]

Yep, I stand my characterization of you and Europe as being trash.........
Brasileiros are just as likely to deny entrance to blond blue eyed euro/trailerPark trash as dark skinned Brasileiros or indians. However an african american in a suite or gold teeth making it rain will get the VIP.

This thread might not help anybody getting laid, but it sure is amusing.