FKK Mainhattan- Frankfurt

[Pessimist]

Dear PayForIt,

Thanks very much for your kind words. And I'm very happy to meet kindred mongers cut from the same cloth. At the risk of appearing to be self serving, I will say.

+1.

To both of you gentle sirs.

And you and Zumboit are so so right about WGs getting it. It is so funny and interesting what you recounted in your convos with them on this topic, because I could have had them. Indeed, I did have the same exact discussions in those same words with many FKK girls many times.

As both of you said, it is very much possible for a man to have strong love for a single woman and not have sex with her and yet fuck hundreds of attractive girls as a purely sexual activity and not feel anything about them other than physical attraction. I like them but all my life savings, my thoughts and hopes and dreams are with my wife and children.

I once was having a conversation at a party with my wife and a bunch of friends. The topic turned to Bill Clinton. I said it is very possible that Bill very much loved Hillary and his dalliance with Jennifer and Monica and others was just a physical thing. Almost all the women around me, including my wife, thought that was the dumbest and craziest thing they heard. And all of them were Dem supporters, highly educated and with sterling careers of their own. "Normal women" do not get this as you said. I quickly diverted the topic to safer grounds.

Sorry for being off topic on this thread. Perhaps we need a separate FKK support thread for married men (and another thread for those that want to bash and condemn the institution of marriage as being a total waste, for those who are so inclined to such views). Equal opportunity.

Firstly, a big congratulations to Pessimist on his original post on this topic. I don't believe for a moment he is on his own, and neither are you Zumboit. Or me. Same camp. Great marriage, love my wife very much, sex went downhill after about 20 great years of it, and the void needs filling. Without the mongering I too would have been forced to stray, or divorce, or both, with much hurt, pain, not just for my wife and me. But for our kids (adults now) and many others.

And you are very right. The WGs get it. I've asked many if they'the be happy with their future husbands doing this. Many are truthful and say absolutely not. But that they'the rather he did this than leave and terminate an otherwise strong relationship.

For me the guilt does not go away though. I can rationalise it all day but still feel bad. But I long ago stopped the torture of trying to stop. When I did try I found myself starting to flirt with non-WGs almost subconsciously. The void still needed filling.

[PayForIt]

I also feel that mongering is the best hope for a sexually unfulfilling marriage. Aside from the lack of sex I am very happy in my marriage and feel that mongering has saved it. No wish to have an affair. Not sure my wife or most women would ever understand though, aside from WG's, who definitely get it.

Firstly, a big congratulations to Pessimist on his original post on this topic. I don't believe for a moment he is on his own, and neither are you Zumboit. Or me. Same camp. Great marriage, love my wife very much, sex went downhill after about 20 great years of it, and the void needs filling. Without the mongering I too would have been forced to stray, or divorce, or both, with much hurt, pain, not just for my wife and me. But for our kids (adults now) and many others.

And you are very right. The WGs get it. I've asked many if they'the be happy with their future husbands doing this. Many are truthful and say absolutely not. But that they'the rather he did this than leave and terminate an otherwise strong relationship.

For me the guilt does not go away though. I can rationalise it all day but still feel bad. But I long ago stopped the torture of trying to stop. When I did try I found myself starting to flirt with non-WGs almost subconsciously. The void still needed filling.

Truth is if you harbour the secrets of this obsession within your own mind (and the odd forum!) you are not hurting others but carrying the guilt instead of offloading it onto your loved ones if you spilled the beans. I consider therefore I have an obligation not to let the cat out of the bag. Like Pessimist. Careers would be very much jeopardised. And you know. There is also a certain retained excitement about the pursuit of forbidden fruit. Great topic. Not sure it was anything Mainhattan related but I enjoyed reading the posts. Well done for the transparency guys.

[Kosher Kowboy]

I haven't been to Mainhattan in 2-3 years. I like to know if BBBJ is normally included in a 60 min /100 E session nowadays or if it's extra.

YMMV.

If you ask the girl in the above manner it will be countered with 150 in fact many of them are asking 150/ HR now to include DFK BBBJ DATY on top of the CFS. I suggest you tell them you want the DFK DATY BBBJ and CFS hour for 100 and if they say no move on. I have noticed if you ask for a BBBJ hour they will tell you that would be part of the ' Romantic ' hour, which would include the DFK BBBJ DATY CFS. Don't be shocked if they ask 200 for the ' DFK' to include tongue. Very greedy girls now. It is sort of like the auto dealer, if you want an option they will tell you that option is available but only in the next package up, tossing in a few other items but still upselling it so if you want that ' sunroof' in your new car you need to get the package with the GPS, the leather seating and dual temperature controls even if all you want is a sunroof.

But as a general rule of thumb, shop your 100 HR w BBBJ someone will take it if not fuck it go elsewhere (or pay it); all up to you. Find the German girls if you can they do not give a shit what the others say, they just want a pay day. Find the girls sitting alone in the cafe when all the other girls are around the table eating together or when you walk in the main parlor and walk towards the wellness area look to the left hand side in those two sets of couches for more outliers as well as in the smoking room the girls sitting in the back section (only if the front section is NOT full). Loners.

Loners cost less.

Good luck to you and ' I wish you a pleasant time.' ( As the receptionist will tell you verbatim, the older skinnier one)

[Zumboit]

I also feel that mongering is the best hope for a sexually unfulfilling marriage. Aside from the lack of sex I am very happy in my marriage and feel that mongering has saved it. No wish to have an affair. Not sure my wife or most women would ever understand though, aside from WG's, who definitely get it.

It is

I am definitely very happy about this aspect of my life. It filled a massive sexual need.

In a funny way having a release in this channel helped me stay married -- I feel I would have openly cheated on my wife in an affair and that would have led to a divorce a long while ago. So, I keep this side of my life safely hidden from any prying eyes.

[Kosher Kowboy]

Takedown. I appreciated your post. Cordial resolution of disputes, listening carefully to the other person, is essential to a healthy board.
Cheers.

I agree Optimist. Perhaps was not needed as MacAdonis implied ( although I have always valued his opinion) but I do agree with Takedown too that it can be a refreshing change from the on board back and forth and I think Takedown deserves some credit for taking the time to explain in private rather than just taking it to the board, get any misconceptions or misinterpretations out of the way and head back to the board to further continue the topic at hand. I appreciate his ' Code Word 1' and Vinegar too when it comes to mongering and despite the age difference between he and I and our differences in how we play the game I will say I have learned and at times stolen a page out of his playbook. Since in the Mainhatten thread here I have done so in this club and I found sometimes giving the girls I really want instead of lowering my standards a tad I have paid the 150/ HR here and enjoyed a much more varied menu of activities and in some cases I can say w / o doubt the extra 50 e on the 100 vs the 150 hour has resulted in double the fun and in some cases more than double the time and not just in the zimmer but outside the zimmer on the couches; the girls are much more inclined to chill with you and shoot the shit and it isn't just at Day Care where their hands will slip under the towel. Sometimes also the 100 half is rushed while the 150 HR goes over!

My "jet set" lifestyle has adjusted to allow me more visits and time in Germany and Switzerland.

Hank seems you have a lot to add for a newcomer which is great and not sure where you hail from but notice the word ' jet set. ' I have found a way thru my frequent trips and the compiling of benefits from the Airline and my AMEX co-brand with them to lock in (as long as I keep going minimum of 7-8 times a year) great airline deals and will now pay close to $300-$500 less per flight with free unlimited upgrades to Comfort+ after buying the cheapest rate. I can now fly Comfort+ for the ' JFK RT prices' which means the AUS-JFK legs or Atlanta in many cases is now a ' free leg. '.

I do wonder Hank given the fact we ' jet setters' even if from closer locales like Italy or the United Kingdom etc. Still have the lodging issue and was curious as a ' jet setter' if you would care to share your tricks of the trade as it seems you actually have a lot more knowledge demonstrated in some of your posts than a newbie like myself.

Thanks in advance Sir.

KK.

[Optimist]

Takedown. I appreciated your post. Cordial resolution of disputes, listening carefully to the other person, is essential to a healthy board. I have several times had disputes with other members, but in all but one case, have ended up on very good terms with my "opponent" even when we remain of different viewpoints.

As for quality of guests at big pond clubs or small pond clubs I agree with you totally. Visitors to mainstream clubs can have taste and skills. I would say in fact that any successful navigator of large clubs has a very good level of skills as the rocks can cause any poor navigator to founder.

Cheers.

[Takedown]

Well, selectively open about it. I certainly cannot talk about it openly in a professional setting or with most women. I am as open about it as most swingers are open about their hobby. There's no need to go around proclaiming it but if a guy asks me about fun things to do while traveling, I'd be happy to lead a horse to water.

It is commendable that you are able to openly admit your mongering exploits with pride and honesty. If more people were like you that would certainly make this hobby less of a taboo and make it easy for others to come forward. As an American I am not sure if there is more openness and less taboo to confess to this side of one's life in some of the European countries. I hope there is.

I do want to say that it is not always shame that prevents some of us from being open about this activity. As a married man, it is all but impossible for me to be anything but extremely cagey about this and to obviate the smallest hint of suspicion. Then too, what you do for a living and who are your peers matter a lot. In my job, even a slight hint of this kind of activity could only lead to disapproval from peers and this remains a at-will employment place where we have a tight knit partner type culture and most of us know our colleagues' spouses. Any gossip in this direction is death knell for my career and a well paying job..

[ExpatLover]

It is commendable that you are able to openly admit your mongering exploits with pride and honesty. If more people were like you that would certainly make this hobby less of a taboo and make it easy for others to come forward. As an American I am not sure if there is more openness and less taboo to confess to this side of one's life in some of the European countries. I hope there is.

I do want to say that it is not always shame that prevents some of us from being open about this activity. As a married man, it is all but impossible for me to be anything but extremely cagey about this and to obviate the smallest hint of suspicion. Then too, what you do for a living and who are your peers matter a lot. In my job, even a slight hint of this kind of activity could only lead to disapproval from peers and this remains a at-will employment place where we have a tight knit partner type culture and most of us know our colleagues' spouses. Any gossip in this direction is death knell for my career and a well paying job.

I don't know if I am proud of my mongering exploits. I am definitely very happy about this aspect of my life. It filled a massive sexual need. Absent this, my sexual frustration would have been much worse and that in turn would have spilled into other aspects of my life including professional, martial, health and emotional sides. In a funny way having a release through mongering channel helped me stay married -- I feel I would have openly cheated on my wife in an affair and that would have led to a divorce a long while ago. So, I keep this side of my life safely hidden from any prying eyes.

Married guys visiting prostitutes? Why not but probably not the best things to do, will not solve any problems in your life. If you are happy with your wife there is no reason to fuck prostitutes.

[Pessimist]

It is commendable that you are able to openly admit your mongering exploits with pride and honesty. If more people were like you that would certainly make this hobby less of a taboo and make it easy for others to come forward. As an American I am not sure if there is more openness and less taboo to confess to this side of one's life in some of the European countries. I hope there is.

I do want to say that it is not always shame that prevents some of us from being open about this activity. As a married man, it is all but impossible for me to be anything but extremely cagey about this and to obviate the smallest hint of suspicion. Then too, what you do for a living and who are your peers matter a lot. In my job, even a slight hint of this kind of activity could only lead to disapproval from peers and this remains a at-will employment place where we have a tight knit partner type culture and most of us know our colleagues' spouses. Any gossip in this direction is death knell for my career and a well paying job.

I don't know if I am proud of my mongering exploits. I am definitely very happy about this aspect of my life. It filled a massive sexual need. Absent this, my sexual frustration would have been much worse and that in turn would have spilled into other aspects of my life including professional, martial, health and emotional sides. In a funny way having a release through mongering channel helped me stay married -- I feel I would have openly cheated on my wife in an affair and that would have led to a divorce a long while ago. So, I keep this side of my life safely hidden from any prying eyes.

It's not about defending the club. It is about defending my hobby and palate for it. Most mongers have a sense of inner shame in the hobby, going through great lengths to keep it a secret. For me, this is my most time consuming hobby. As such, I've developed a sense of pride in it. I do not feel shame in it nor do I go out of my way to hide it from most people who ask. In fact, I revel at the opportunity to share info about this hobby with neophytes. With this prideful mindset, I certainly felt the need to point out that hobbyists with good taste can certainly attend mainstream clubs. It's not just superficial pride being affected by insults and emotions.

[Hank Moody 69]

McAdonis. Nicely structured analysis. I fall smack bang into one of your categories.

Agreed. You speak the truth, McAdonis. I have fallen into each of these categories at various times, but try to stick to 1 or 2. I found myself shifting from 50 E / 30 min sessions to 100 E / 60 min sessions because there is no time pressure and I get better service. I'm very selective up front, talking with many girls and choosing very few. I will sometimes throw a bone when I first arrive just to clear things out. My "jet set" lifestyle has adjusted to allow me more visits and time in Germany and Switzerland.

[Optimist]

McAdonis. Nicely structured analysis. I fall smack bang into one of your categories.

I spend the minimum for flight, car, and accommodation and expect all traditional services for a rate of 50 euros per 30 minutes. And not just for reasons of a finite budget. I am a cheap end guy. Although I will sometimes tip.

Except exactly as you say, when I meet a "unique girl who cannot be substituted", I will pay much more, by taking long sessions, and responding to the +40..... calls which whilst free to receive seem to involve payment for all sorts of medical problems LOL. The interesting thing about finding a unique girl is that when she is gone another one is close behind . Any port in a storm

[Sirioja]

I never tip with €, but with my manners, advises, weekly repeating or even on same day, sometimes on great discovery, and I'm pretty sure my girls prefer this, asking: at what time You want we meet again? Because I want to be free for You. Was really never told to be a cheap guy, but valuating girls with guys wanting to try my girls, a German very regular looking who are my girls and going with them after me, but I don't think he repeats like me, not same beauties lover.

[Ulver]

I haven't been to Mainhattan in 2-3 years. I like to know if BBBJ is normally included in a 60 min /100 E session nowadays or if it's extra.

[Takedown]

I found the apologies between you and Takedown unnecessary.

I think we should just appreciate one of the few cordial resolutions of forum conflicts. It's a nice change from the emotional and irrational. Perhaps unnecessary, but let's not discourage good behavior and perhaps we can set an example for the future.

Personally, I did not find your criticisms of mainstream clubs harsh at all. I will admit some bias there because I am neither a fan of Oase or Sharks. To me every club, has its negatives. Even when Sharks was my favorite, I never felt the need to defend it. I don't have a financial stake in their success.

It's not about defending the club. It is about defending my hobby and palate for it. Most mongers have a sense of inner shame in the hobby, going through great lengths to keep it a secret. For me, this is my most time consuming hobby. As such, I've developed a sense of pride in it. I do not feel shame in it nor do I go out of my way to hide it from most people who ask. In fact, I revel at the opportunity to share info about this hobby with neophytes. With this prideful mindset, I certainly felt the need to point out that hobbyists with good taste can certainly attend mainstream clubs. It's not just superficial pride being affected by insults and emotions.

And while, Takedown was clearly referring to you when he likened some posters to hipsters that eschew mainstream establishments to be cool, I would have to ask is being a hipster such a negative term?

In all honesty, I certainly used the term as an insult as it was used to refer to pseudo-hipsters, a species within the genus Posers; Poseri pseudohipsterus. That group is most definitely an off putting bunch.

[Kosher Kowboy]

Yes, definitely more on the forums than in the club, hopefully attributed to the keyboard warrior phenomenon. I'll second your observation that Germans do tip. As such I also often do so myself in the 50 e rooms. The only demographic that I know that definitely, consistently never tips are the French.

The girls here in Texas tell me the Canadians are the cheapest and won't leave them a penny over. Than again I don't either and I lowball everyone of them. On the other hand the Gypsies percentage tip is probably right in the range of somewhere in between what US and Canadian personal income is taxed at Nothing wrong with you tipping on the 50 rooms. I have tipped on 50/100 rooms too but I never tip at Mainhatten as their rate is a tip enough!

If another poster was condescending towards me, I suppose it would reduce my credibility as a poster in the eyes of other posters, but again, I really do not care. .

My thought if a poster flames, attacks, insults or is condescending towards another that other members notice and those eyes are the judges and sometimes he who takes the high road is viewed as the one who handled it better. The words used usually say more about the guy tossing the punch than the guy being punched so sometimes best to take the punch. That statement is a general statement and not related in any way, shape or form to my exchange with Takedown.

I know quite a few fly-in mongers who spend significantly more than KK on entries and sessions. And I am willing to bet these same guys have never splurged on Delta Comfort Plus or ever spent more than 50 EUR on an outside-the-club meal, while KK claims to do this regularly.

KK is a very cheap guy unless he is paying a Gypsy for sexual services or on vacation will splurge on meals. Most of the American fly ins I know fly in coach and the ones who go mainstream spend a lot more than I (as you correctly state) in most cases in both entries and sessions many of them actually doing 1 to 4 hour rooms some longer and most also go for the top lookers in the club. Likewise with lodging, I will only stay in a hotel where I get a double sized bed and AirCon and a breakfast buffet while many of the fly ins you know (and I know) will get cheap shared Air be&be or cheap hotels and eat all meals in the clubs. Since I am not served a buffet at my club I splurge at night on good food and go out to a very nice meal unless I smoke too much after Dietzenbach and pass out in which case will grab a late night Doner or Pizza.

Most of the fly ins I know who do only Dietz or NRW are the cheapest, all fly in coach, all get cheap hotels or sleep in cars, don't tip any Gypsies and eat as cheap as can be some buying cold cuts and bread at Rewe. One of the guys I go to the NRW with will pay 100 Euros for a room, 50+ on dinner but refuses to park at the hotel lot and will walk 5 blocks to save 5 Euros. People are strange with money.