FKK Sharks - Darmstadt

[Nick The G]

The girls do their best to not pay local income taxes apart from the initial withholding taxes with is paid in the entrance fee, but they contribute to the German economy in other ways.

The main goal of the new prostitution law in Germany is to enable the tax departments to get more money from the women working in prostitution. This is why line-up list in fora are more interesting for tax authorities than reports of actions in the room.

The girls are consumerist.

No difference to the men visiting the clubs. They are consumerists too, they consume alcohol, viagra, female bodies and connected illusions.

[Sirioja]

I was very happy with Sharks in that time. Very happy with palace in that time. Super happy with Oase and of course world. You must differentiate tourist as Europeans are different than Americans or Asian, which are the holy Grail for girls. Combine that with the new rules and girls can charge 150 for a 30 minutes room sometimes. Good 100 room are hard do find as a result. Even 150 doesn't guarantee anything in many clubs. When the consumer market adjusts and widens so do the services and prices offered. It is a natural progression. But the point being the clubs do not depend on the fly in mongers as the clubs existed before and will exist after.

My meaning was when Sharks was a small club with less than 50 girls, 5 years ago, German clients business was maybe enough, but now Germans even with Turkish, Albanians and Afghans attending Sharks at night, wouldn't be enough to give enough business to more than 100 girls. Besides, many Germans, not only at Sharks, don't go with girls, but just eat, drink and sauna. But I agree Western Europeans are more demanding because used to Caucasian type girls than Asians who go with any blond, or even Americans who have fat and silicon standards at home, and missing sex in US, when I can have a Russian escort every day in Paris, but I wait for my Siberian Sveta. When tourists make business, then girls fall in touristic level, when I still manage to find good girls who are happy with 100 for 1 full GFE hour and come to ask to repeat. On Friday, a girl was so passionate compare to previous Friday, asking even for a third room when she said I killed her pussy on our second room, but she wanted to repeat, I didn't. No upselling, each time, 100 for a bit more than 1 hour.

Happy for you if you found good girls in Hessen on this time. Ski time now, but have to find time to go to Florentina who was one of the last high level girl met at Sharks. Did you see the beautiful German brunette?

[Kuni042]

The examples of the Germans that give 150 euro for "one hour" sessions when the actual time is 45 minutes with or usually without a CIM extra involved.

This can be true for the older germans, as many of them are stink-rich nowadays. The younger germans? I would really highly doubt that for most of them.

So one can be forgiven that the girls can be enterprising in trying to get as much from a session as they can.

All your calc sounds fine. However, the major reason of upselling has much simpler economics. A girl only needs to spend 1 min on upselling, has often a 50% chance of succeeding of making 20 - 50 euro more.

So in the 1 min of upselling she she earns an expected 10 e to 25 e.

So in the 8 sessions, trusting your numbers, she makes an additional 80 e- 200 e more money, just for 8 min more work. So that is a large sum of money, normalized to the hour.

[ExpatLover]

There has always been tourist business, going way back. So you cannot blame the drive in and fly in customers from Belgium, Netherlands, France, Poland, Denmark, Austria, Italy and Switzerland. These guys have been coming in droves. Like the Irish have been coming to America as Bono said.

I have heard many a time from girls that the Germans are the better tippers and over payers. The examples of the Germans that give 150 euro for "one hour" sessions when the actual time is 45 minutes with or usually without a CIM extra involved. As YamaYama says the time not in the room can be considered a tip. Then there is the package deals with 500 euro for two hours where the German guy "can do anything" he wants. Then there is the 10 euro to 20 and even 50 euro tips that girls get from the German guys.

There is just a vocal small group of hard core German regulars that insist on a competitive race to the bottom who score points for getting the most couch time, room time and high level services for 50 bucks that skew the discussion forums. As with many the reality can be different.

200 euro a day is not that much. Girls will aim for 500 a day is likely. Stories abound of the earlier days when many girls would aim for 1000 a day, but nowadays maybe only the best girls can make 1000 a day.

Chongmal makes a very good point that when the foreign girls work in Germany that they are living in Germany so their expenses become German. It is only whatever savings that the girls make that it becomes good money.

Working on a hypothetical working girl who stays in Germany 75% of the year meaning 9 months working in Germany and 3 months at home over the course of the year seems normal since we all know girls who are always away on holiday or just taking a break.

What about taxes, AOK, pimps, drugs, shopping addiction. To make it easy I can tell you that 80% of the Romanian girls have nothing after 5 years in FKK probably some German girls have a better control of their life.

[Member #4585]

With less tourist business, there was less inflation and better service. All the clubs existed before tourist and would have existed otherwise as 200 euro a day for a girl is a lot for the countries they come from. But why work hard when they have what you like to call fly in mongers. Oh men, this will be my last response to you, not even basic game theory principles will appeal.

There has always been tourist business, going way back. So you cannot blame the drive in and fly in customers from Belgium, Netherlands, France, Poland, Denmark, Austria, Italy and Switzerland. These guys have been coming in droves. Like the Irish have been coming to America as Bono said.

I have heard many a time from girls that the Germans are the better tippers and over payers. The examples of the Germans that give 150 euro for "one hour" sessions when the actual time is 45 minutes with or usually without a CIM extra involved. As YamaYama says the time not in the room can be considered a tip. Then there is the package deals with 500 euro for two hours where the German guy "can do anything" he wants. Then there is the 10 euro to 20 and even 50 euro tips that girls get from the German guys.

There is just a vocal small group of hard core German regulars that insist on a competitive race to the bottom who score points for getting the most couch time, room time and high level services for 50 bucks that skew the discussion forums. As with many the reality can be different.

200 euro a day is not that much. Girls will aim for 500 a day is likely. Stories abound of the earlier days when many girls would aim for 1000 a day, but nowadays maybe only the best girls can make 1000 a day.

Chongmal makes a very good point that when the foreign girls work in Germany that they are living in Germany so their expenses become German. It is only whatever savings that the girls make that it becomes good money.

Working on a hypothetical working girl who stays in Germany 75% of the year meaning 9 months working in Germany and 3 months at home over the course of the year seems normal since we all know girls who are always away on holiday or just taking a break.

This girl will need somewhere to stay. I know girls paying 500 euro for a room share a month and many girls paying 1000 a month for a room in a be&be, pension, or hotel. So let us work on 750 as a half way house here but knowing most girls prefer to live alone or with their fish boyfriend so its more at the higher end. Food, mobile phone, make up, hair, nails and incidentals like 25 a day on say a 30 day month is 750. It is probably more. So already accommodation and living costs that is fixed costs of 1500 euros a day.

Then for the work expenses side as the girls are independent contractors.

Let us work on 20 days worked in a 30 day period which seems about right from my observations. Some girls work everyday 7 days a week since their manager pushes them but then some girls are pushed less by their manager so 5 days a week is a basic number in our hypothetical and using empirical observation.

Entrance fees is 105 a day at Sharks which is the initial withholding tax, entrance fee and 5 for the condoms. I do know there is a small room charge if a girl stays in the club but we are working on a live out girl. I have also read that the Sharks girls pay 195 a day entry but I am not sure on that. So at 105 entry a day for a 20 day working month that is 2100.

Maybe taxi / car return travel to and from club at 30 a day so over 20 days working in a month that is 600 bucks more.

So now we add these together 1500 fixed cost of being in Germany with room and living expenses, plus the 2100 entrance fees and 600 taxi / car is 4200 a month. I know even for me my expenses are 1850 (outside my other homes) a month. So the girl has 2350 a month more costs in comparison to me. That is not an insignificant amount of money.

If a girl earns gross 400 a day (8 rooms a day on average) over a 20 day average month then that is 8000 a month, and over a 9 month year since as we know many girls do not work all year due to the mental strain of the job then that is 72000 a year. If the girl is only paying for the flat in Germany during her 9 months and many actually keep their flat in Germany when home but we will assume she does not, then the math is 8000 less 4200 costs is 3800 surplus. She over a year can make savings of 34200 a year. Much less if the girl keeps her flat for the whole year. The girls do their best to not pay local income taxes apart from the initial withholding taxes with is paid in the entrance fee, but they contribute to the German economy in other ways.

So taking that 34200 a year possible savings from working in German then compared to over a 240 day (12 month x 20 days a month) working year at home is like saving 142.50 a day compared to say saving nothing working in an average job making 1000 euro a month in Bucharest or Cluj or Constanta. I think even 1000 euro a month in Romania is a lot of money having stayed there myself.

So in way I can see 200 a day is a lot of money for a girl in Romania but the girl has to actually save their money to take back to Romania. What you see is the girls spending a lot of their money in Germany buying hang bags, expensive make up, fast cars, luxury holidays, all the things a 20 something year old girl who is an avid social media consumer would want as well. The girls are consumerist.

With costs like these 200 income a day does not cover costs. Income of 400 or 500 a day will give a profit sufficient to save (or splurge).

Sorry, I am digressing. The point is the same as Optimist that earning 200 a day is not really going to cover the girls costs which is around 210 a day (4200 divide by 20 working days). She needs to earn more. So one can be forgiven that the girls can be enterprising in trying to get as much from a session as they can.

[Danny227]

The less he understands something, the more firmly he believes in it.

Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man.

[Danny227]

Sharks was a small club with 30/40 girls in 2013, about 50 on 2014, 150 sometimes since November 2016, but lower casting for beauties. Top girls don't stay for cheap 50 at Sharks, they prefer clubs with better business. Castings are on clients level, even GT casting is disappointing on November. Germans don't make clubs business and even less for girls, Turkish make clubs business at night, NL and Belgium make GT business, not locals make most of time big clubs business. Only small clubs get business from Germans.

I was very happy with Sharks in that time. Very happy with palace in that time. Super happy with Oase and of course world. You must differentiate tourist as Europeans are different than Americans or Asian, which are the holy Grail for girls. Combine that with the new rules and girls can charge 150 for a 30 minutes room sometimes. Good 100 room are hard do find as a result. Even 150 doesn't guarantee anything in many clubs. When the consumer market adjusts and widens so do the services and prices offered. It is a natural progression. But the point being the clubs do not depend on the fly in mongers as the clubs existed before and will exist after.

[ExpatLover]

Good point. I believe they have more than that per month. Remember they pay more than us to enter the club so only working 5 days a week would be average 2000 just to enter the club. Then the have their expensive make up, clothes, rent food taxes etc. I think 500/ day is their main target for most of them. They make good money but they also have a lot of expenses. Still a good business for prostitutes who believe that the meaning of life is to open wide your legs. LOL.

Most of the girls are living in the clubs or sharing a flat, I think they need 150 to 200 euro per day including entry fees.

[Optimist]

Chongmai. Some nice points. Yes, a girl at Sharks may be paying each month 500 euros to keep a flat in Romania, 800 for accommodation in Germany, childcare of 300-500, club entry of 1600 -2000, taxis of 300, support to mothers, fathers and so on. With costs like these 200 income a day does not cover costs. Income of 400 or 500 a day will give a profit sufficient to save (or splurge).

Of course this is just one possible cost scenario, and if a girl has no dependents or life in Romania to support then her situation is better financially.

As for fly-ins. Like you I have been kicking around a bit. We fly-ins used to be the stingiest of clients. Not only getting "everything" for 50, but also extended fun and chat on the couches. Things have changed maybe but the reasons are complex.

The clubs used to be staffed by girls from economies (such as Germany) with higher wage levels than Romania, yet the girls used to make enough money to be well off (earning about 60,000 net from full service for 50 euros per half hour) and able to invest in future careers. I think the current girls have, by operating cartel service restriction, damaged themselves overall.

[Member #4636]

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Lastly, I hate to hear people say that 200 per day is a lot of money where these women are from. What is what where they are from doesn't mean jack once they arrive in Germany, because once here their cost of living is based on local prices. The only benefits they have is that in a non tracked or reported cash business they can minimize their taxes. What very few men calculate is that the average woman in the business has about 3000 to 3500 in operating expenses, entry, hotel, taxi to and from work, nails, etc. If they average 500 per day that's six or seven days before they make the first profit, and that's not counting the portion of their earnings the tax authority will take.

Good point. I believe they have more than that per month. Remember they pay more than us to enter the club so only working 5 days a week would be average 2000 just to enter the club. Then the have their expensive make up, clothes, rent food taxes etc. I think 500/ day is their main target for most of them. They make good money but they also have a lot of expenses. Still a good business for prostitutes who believe that the meaning of life is to open wide your legs. LOL.

[ExpatLover]

Sharks was a small club with 30/40 girls in 2013, about 50 on 2014, 150 sometimes since November 2016, but lower casting for beauties. Top girls don't stay for cheap 50 at Sharks, they prefer clubs with better business. Castings are on clients level, even GT casting is disappointing on November. Germans don't make clubs business and even less for girls, Turkish make clubs business at night, NL and Belgium make GT business, not locals make most of time big clubs business. Only small clubs get business from Germans.

2 or 3 years back most of the big clubs had a lot of German regulars several key drivers make them staying out of the clubs the main one is for me that the mongers are getting older same effect is happening in Thailand where the senior christian mongers are less and less replaced by Indian, . The younger generation are more using apps like tinder and are not ready to pay for sex, the girls are less hungry and the German are high demanding mongers AO, fisting. Kissing so they prefer to stay outside and are not willing to pay extra for what they consider being included in a 50 euro session. For a regular like me I can also confirm that there are always the same veteran girls around and very few sexy girls are entering the P6 scene in Germany, these poor offer is not stimulating the demand.

[HungryStud101]

Everyone loves to blame the fly ins, it is amazing how so many girls talk about how generous the Germans are. I bet if it weren't for fly ins like Takedown and I that DFK BBBJ DATY Fucking at Palace would be only 50 e and Sharks could give out Viagras by Phizer not cheap Kamagra. I actually heard if you are discreet and show proof of a 7 day or less receipt for a manicure that the Sharks receptionist will not only give you Viagra but if you kill her with kindness and charm her she will take you in the back room where the laundry is done and let you finger and fist her!

But you have to be respectful and the FIV is only for fly ins!

Laughing my ass off. I can't wait to fly back in to FKK land.

[Sirioja]

With less tourist business, there was less inflation and better service. All the clubs existed before tourist and would have existed otherwise as 200 euro a day for a girl is a lot for the countries they come from. But why work hard when they have what you like to call fly in mongers. Oh men, this will be my last response to you, not even basic game theory principles will appeal.

Sharks was a small club with 30/40 girls in 2013, about 50 on 2014, 150 sometimes since November 2016, but lower casting for beauties. Top girls don't stay for cheap 50 at Sharks, they prefer clubs with better business. Castings are on clients level, even GT casting is disappointing on November. Germans don't make clubs business and even less for girls, Turkish make clubs business at night, NL and Belgium make GT business, not locals make most of time big clubs business. Only small clubs get business from Germans.

[Chongmal]

With less tourist business, there was less inflation and better service. All the clubs existed before tourist and would have existed otherwise as 200 euro a day for a girl is a lot for the countries they come from. But why work hard when they have what you like to call fly in mongers. Oh men, this will be my last response to you, not even basic game theory principles will appeal.

I'm not sure how long you have been participating in this hobby, but I seriously doubt that you remember a time before touring mongers were visiting Germany for the purpose of sex. My first introduction to the scene in Germany was courtesy of a British tourist who I met in a gasthaus in 1984. I asked what brought him across the channel and he told me. I asked if I could ride along and he took me into Hamburg. Even before this, as far back as the 60's foreigners were enjoying the reaperbahn. John Lennon is quoted as saying, "I didn't grow up in Liverpool, I grew up in Hamburg". I don't think he was talking about ages 1 to 18, and given that the Beatles played nearby, I'm sure they visited the P4 P sex scene on a few occasions. I'm not saying there aren't more foreigners than before, just that even with past levels they would be more noticed in this environment.

What is different now is the construct of the Saauna Clubs. These days, mongers stay in one place for several hours at a time, in establishments lighted well enough to to see more than 1 meter in front of you. This allows you to see the man who is coming back from the room with your favorite or top target, however you say. When you see this, maybe it bothers you to realize he is someone you would really rather not follow. This may not be the case, but I know that it is for some mongers. There are still some smaller clubs that are mostly German clients, but these are harder to find after the fall of the flat rate clubs. I visited one club this past year where my local friend told me not to speak until after we were inside the club or risk being turned away. Now that I'm known I can get into the club without him being there to front for me.

Lastly, I hate to hear people say that €200 per day is a lot of money where these women are from. What is what where they are from doesn't mean jack once they arrive in Germany, because once here their cost of living is based on local prices. The only benefits they have is that in a non tracked or reported cash business they can minimize their taxes. What very few men calculate is that the average woman in the business has about €3000 to €3500 in operating expenses, entry, hotel, taxi to and from work, nails, etc. If they average €500 per day that's six or seven days before they make the first profit, and that's not counting the portion of their earnings the tax authority will take.

[Kosher Kowboy]

With less tourist business, there was less inflation and better service. All the clubs existed before tourist and would have existed otherwise as 200 euro a day for a girl is a lot for the countries they come from. But why work hard when they have what you like to call fly in mongers. Oh men, this will be my last response to you, not even basic game theory principles will appeal.

What about drive in mongers. A Dietz reg told me he used to go to the Dusseldorf areas club but the 'drive ins' from Belgium, Holland, France etc. are forcing prices up and service levels down many tipping. A Mainhatten girl told me after the Asians the Germans are the biggest tippers (American ' fly ins' behind them). Perhaps times have changed. I don't doubt things in the past were different as you say. Even the Gypsies would cry if they only made 200 Euros a day in the year 2018 (by 2 PM!) .

Everyone loves to blame the fly ins, it is amazing how so many girls talk about how generous the Germans are. I bet if it weren't for fly ins like Takedown and I that DFK BBBJ DATY Fucking at Palace would be only 50 e and Sharks could give out Viagras by Phizer not cheap Kamagra. I actually heard if you are discreet and show proof of a 7 day or less receipt for a manicure that the Sharks receptionist will not only give you Viagra but if you kill her with kindness and charm her she will take you in the back room where the laundry is done and let you finger and fist her!

But you have to be respectful and the FIV is only for fly ins!

Takedown is in luck!