Safe sex in The Philippines

[Manny51]

Do not know what you are really looking for. If you get infected it is 100% for you.

Short of running full blown tests on the girls you are going to have sex with there is no way to guarantee if a girl is safe. After all you are dealing with prostitutes who fuck for money.

Only safe sex anywhere in the world is how you follow safe sex guidelines. Nothing more nothing less.

Dude, for the tenth time, I am NOT asking about techniques in safe sex, statistics, who's to blame, or how to guarantee anythiing.

All I want to learn from people in the know is how prevalent diseases are there; what's going around and where, and how bad it is.

Don't jump into threads of conversation if you are not willing to pay attention to what's been said, especially if you are going to take judgmental tones. And if this topic doesn't interest you, then go to another thread.

[Sammon]

I just wanted to hear as many opinions as possible; statistical, anecdotal, whatever.

Do not know what you are really looking for. If you get infected it is 100% for you.

Short of running full blown tests on the girls you are going to have sex with there is no way to guarantee if a girl is safe. After all you are dealing with prostitutes who fuck for money.

Only safe sex anywhere in the world is how you follow safe sex guidelines. Nothing more nothing less.

[Manny51]

Yes my response is one of anger. The reason. Because the thread instigates anger. Yes you can throw as many stats in as you like. I can quote stats as well. Statistics mean nothing.

Maybe the stupid question comment wasn't the right comment to use. The topic is a serious topic but unfortunately the tone of the thread lays all the blame with the girls for passing STDs on. It has very little discussion about us taking responsibility to decrease the risk ourselves. How about the "monger" who is carrying and in most instances knowingly spreads, there is very little discussion about that.

I have travelled to the Philippines on numerous occassions (not purely for mongering). STDs are no more prevalent in the Philippines than they are in Thailand or any SE Asian country.

Your point about the BGs being unclean is NOT a statement of fact. The government (hypocritically I might add) does enforce health checks on the girls. Weekly. Check out the clinic in Angeles City. She doesn't get her clearance to work. The bars themselves do not allow them to work until they get their clearance. That is the fact.

The whole point of my post is to get rid of the stats. They can be read anyway you want. And to bring a balanced view from personal experience into the thread. If you want to lessen the risk of both transmitting and catching then take the responsibility and take precautions. DON'T lay all the blame with the girls.

Thank you for your clarified response.

I am not demanding the use of verified statistics, nor am I out to blame anyone. And I always advocate personal responsibility. I am the one just asking the question. Let me state for the record that I have never been to the PI, and have no experience of the scene there. I am a world traveller who is looking to make some plans, and want to know how prevalent the situation is. That's all. Believe me, I was hoping that I could just put the question out there and follow the discussion.

However, the posts have been surprisingly venomous, probably for the reasons that you stated. I have therefore felt the need to try and moderate. The answers have also been very divergent. One the one hand, I have one person saying that safe sex in the PI is 99. 99% impossible, describing people having bareback sex with external warts. On the other hand, I have someone saying that 99. 99% of the bar girls are clean, and that the bars don't let anyone work who doesn't have a reliable government issued clean bill of health. It's getting hard to form an impression.

I just wanted to hear as many opinions as possible; statistical, anecdotal, whatever.

[PinkPearl]

i have travelled to the philippines on numerous occassions (not purely for mongering). stds are no more prevalent in the philippines than they are in thailand or any se asian country.

(snip)

the whole point of my post is to get rid of the stats. they can be read anyway you want. and to bring a balanced view from personal experience into the thread.

i wonder how you reach this conclusion, since you believe stats are useless. surely your experience, even if you mongered daily in se asia for the last 500 years, would be less than useless as regards info about sti prevalence in these countries today.

btw, peeking in briefly at the brazil thread on safe sex the other day, info was being posted that sex workers there have a huge hiv rate of over 6 percent. too many ass lovers & too much ass fucking there, i guess. you might want to add that country to your list of african and other nations to avoid for international sex hobbying.

the only real issue with "unclean" girls lays with the freelancers. you take a freelancer. unprotected. then you take the risk as well as other associated risks such as **** etc etc.

sometimes freelancers are just occasional sex workers looking to pay a bill, buy food, or acquire the latest gadget. as such they would probably be far less likely to be "unclean" than those ft hardcore condom forsaking bargirls in ac.

even streetwalkers in ac may be doing so for other reasons besides being "unclean". maybe they just don't like working in bars, with their rules, noise, drinking & such. or they like to be independent & keep 100 percent of what a customer pays. or they like choosing their own customers. if they were such a high risk, why would informed veteran mongers like sir lancelot and westcoast1 regularly make use of their services?

[PinkPearl]

What? Are you serious? If you are that paranoid then why are you mongering? Might I suggest you change hobbies, maybe risk needlepoint.

It seems to me his comment was just Safe Sex 100 or 101.

Something a person who knows nothing about Safe Sex would learn in their first class.

[Member #4351]

But to assume that using a condom protects you from everything all the time is naive.

What? Are you serious? If you are that paranoid then why are you mongering? Might I suggest you change hobbies, maybe risk needlepoint.

[TheOtherDave]

your angered reply just reads like venting.

firstly, i do use protection. every time. but to assume that using a condom protects you from everything all the time is naive. just because i am wearing kevlar doesn't mean that i want to walk into a gunfight.

secondly, the point that some people are making on this form is that the bargirls are not clean, and that their health isn't effectively checked by the government. and that laws are not enforced. many people are arguing that the stds are indeed more prevalent in the pi. doesn't it bother you that so many seemingly knowledgeable people are discounting all these assumptions about safety that you thought were valid?

third, the fact that i and other people are intelligently having this discussion means that we are responsible members of the community.

dude, if you feel like this is a stupid question, then just flip to another page of the forum! i promise you, plenty of close up photos of vaginas await you.

yes my response is one of anger. the reason. because the thread instigates anger. yes you can throw as many stats in as you like. i can quote stats as well. statistics mean nothing. stats can be read how you want to read them. the bottom line is that it is our responsibility to alleviate the risks.

maybe the stupid question comment wasn't the right comment to use. the topic is a serious topic but unfortunately the tone of the thread lays all the blame with the girls for passing stds on. it has very little discussion about us taking responsibility to decrease the risk ourselves. how about the "monger" who is carrying and in most instances knowingly spreads, there is very little discussion about that.

i wonder how many times i'll see "mongers" bragging about unprotected sex in the forum, whether it is here or anywhere else. not only are they increasing the risk for themselves they are increasing the risk for the girls.

i have travelled to the philippines on numerous occassions (not purely for mongering). stds are no more prevalent in the philippines than they are in thailand or any se asian country. the point i am making is that quite often after a couple of weeks of mongering in the philippines or any like country someone will cry over spilt milk why? because they fail to take precautions then it is the entire country that is to blame.

your point about the bgs being unclean is not a statement of fact. the government (hypocritically i might add) does enforce health checks on the girls. weekly. check out the clinic in angeles city. get first hand experience. talk to the girls about the checks. see how legitimate they see they are. if the bg misses a health check. she doesn't get her clearance to work. the only exception to the rule is the "cherry" girl who undergoes a check monthly.

i know many bargirls or waitresses in angeles city who have missed their health checks for legitimate reasons. the bars themselves do not allow them to work until they get their clearance. that is the fact.

the only real issue with "unclean" girls lays with the freelancers. you take a freelancer. unprotected. then you take the risk as well as other associated risks such as **** etc etc.

the whole point of my post is to get rid of the stats. they can be read anyway you want. and to bring a balanced view from personal experience into the thread. if you want to lessen the risk of both transmitting and catching then take the responsibility and take precautions. don't lay all the blame with the girls.

[Manny51]

I think you are all forgetting the point or losing the plot. Sex in the Philppines is just as safe as anywhere else in the world. You don't cover up. You don't take precautions. Well that's your issue.

Cover up. Stay clear of the freelancers. Stick to the bar scene. 99. 9999% of the bargirls are clean. Health checked by the Gov. They don't have the med clearance they don't work.

Really irks me when guys ask this question about safe sex. The only reason it's asked is because they don't want to take the responsibility of protecting themselves. Take responsibility for your own actions there like anywhere.

Safe sex in the Philippines. Really a stupid question. It's as safe as you want to make it. No different to here or anywhere else.

Your angered reply just reads like venting.

Firstly, I do use protection. Every time. But to assume that using a condom protects you from everything all the time is naive. Just because I am wearing kevlar doesn't mean that I want to walk into a gunfight.

Secondly, the point that some people are making on this form is that the bargirls are NOT clean, and that their health ISN'T effectively checked by the government. And that laws are NOT enforced. Many people are arguing that the STDs are indeed more prevalent in the PI. Doesn't it bother you that so many seemingly knowledgeable people are discounting all these assumptions about safety that you thought were valid?

Third, the fact that I and other people are intelligently having this discussion means that we ARE responsible members of the community.

Dude, if you feel like this is a stupid question, then just flip to another page of the forum! I promise you, plenty of close up photos of vaginas await you.

[TheOtherDave]

I think you are all forgetting the point or losing the plot. Sex in the Philppines is just as safe as anywhere else in the world. You don't cover up. You don't take precautions. Well that's your issue. Don't blame the whole damn country for unsafe practices. Its not their responsibility it's yours!

You catch something blame yourself for being stupid enough not to take precautions.

Cover up. Stay clear of the freelancers. Stick to the bar scene. 99. 9999% of the bargirls are clean. Health checked by the Gov. They don't have the med clearance they don't work.

Really irks me when guys ask this question about safe sex. The only reason it's asked is because they don't want to take the responsibility of protecting themselves. Take responsibility for your own actions there like anywhere.

Safe sex in the Philippines. Really a stupid question. It's as safe as you want to make it. No different to here or anywhere else.

[Clandestine782]

Take a look in "The Truth about AIDS" in opinions in and editorials. I have written some posts in that that I hope will be helpful.

[Manny51]

You are totally missing the point. Nobody is chest thumping here.

Those who are politely telling anybody to steer clear of Philippines if you are looking for "SAFE SEX" is. In my eyes. 99. 9999% correct.

Safe sex doesn't exist in Philippines. That's what we are trying to say.

So if the natives have that mentality, what do you think? And don't for fucks-sake think only the rich foreigners are screwing the working girls exclusively. More than a fair majority of the bar girls do have regular local boyfriends as well. Or more than one at times.

Maybe a way to get a better conversation going is to ask the question differently. The term "safe sex" in the question implies that I am asking about techniques in prevention, or how effective people think that condoms are in preventing transmission in the phillipines. That's a loaded question, as people have different personal habits and levels of comfort and use different degrees of protection, some stricter, some looser.

I will just concede that all safe sex practices probably have at least a very small failure rate; condoms breaking, etc.

Assuming that, what I really want to know is; How bad is the prevalence of disease there? What kinds of stuff is spreading around and how fast? Are there parts of the country that are "cleaner?"

I am not necessarily asking for statistical studies. People's own personal opinions, based on their own experiences, is very helpful too. I just want people to start sharing what they know and think. Thats what this forum community is all about.

Although I have not been a member for as long as some, nor travelled as much, I always try to post my opinions on the places that I have gone. There is always someone new to a thread asking "What's it like?" As for myself, I have never been to the phillipines and was planning to go. But reading through the forum, I have acquired some concerns. And that's why I am asking.

[PinkPearl]

You are totally missing the point. Nobody is chest thumping here.

Those who are politely telling anybody to steer clear of Philippines if you are looking for "SAFE SEX" is. In my eyes. 99. 9999% correct.

Safe sex doesn't exist in Philippines. That's what we are trying to say.

Forget about all the HIV / STD stuff.

I personally squirmed at a girl, whos vagina's external area had warts and I refused to screw her. And my Filipino friend had no qualms screwing her bareback.

So if the natives have that mentality, what do you think? And don't for fucks-sake think only the rich foreigners are screwing the working girls exclusively. More than a fair majority of the bar girls do have regular local boyfriends as well. Or more than one at times.

My definition of Safe Sex (SS) must be different from yours. Safe Sex is any measure taken to make sex safer from STIs. Although no method, including the consistent & proper use of condoms, is 100 percent effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_sex

In that sense SS exists in theory and in practice in every country, including the Phillipines.

"Although "safe sex" is used by individuals to refer to protection against both pregnancy and HIV / AIDS or other STI transmissions, the term was primarily derived in response to the HIV / AIDS epidemic. The concept included limiting the number of sexual partners, using prophylactics, avoiding bodily fluid exchange, and resisting the use of drugs that reduced inhibitions for high-risk sexual behavior. [6]"

One SS topic I'm interested in is the relative HIV risk between P4P girls in Bangkok and bargirls in AC. I take it that in BKK they usually have uncircumcised BFs who they are fucking BB. At least the girls BFs in PI are probably circumcised, which is a significant SS measure. On this info alone I'd think if I BBed in AC I'd be significantly safer from HIV than the BBing I've already been doing for some time with streetwalkers in BKK. Although in BKK I have often had them tested for HIV.

BTW I've only had one STI, Chlamydia, over a year ago, and two weeks ago tested negative for HIV using AN & AB tests. STI testing is another way to practice Safe Sex. Word is that a number of customers of P4P gals in PI take these ladies for proper STI testing.

This comment explains some, though certainly not all, of the Safe Sex practices being used in the Philipines. A number of other measures for SS are described at the above url.

[PinkPearl]

Wow. My sexual disorder is worse than originally thought. Are there any 12 step programs for this in the PI?

One easy step. Use your imagination while wacking off as many times a day as you like. I usually keep it under 10.

How does that commercial go."Save your money".

And isn't abstinence a Safe Sex method recommended by the PI CC.

After a few days in a row of ST TGs I get quite bored. Just the thought of LT PI girls makes me suicidal.

Hopefully all my girls are "runners" & I can go from entering bar to hotel bed with girl in under 5 minutes. Why dick around.

"More rock, less talk."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na8oDCKp6AU

[Manny51]

[Those who are politely telling anybody to steer clear of Philippines if you are looking for "SAFE SEX" is. In my eyes. 99. 9999% correct.

Safe sex doesn't exist in Philippines. That's what we are trying to say. ]

Thanks for clarifying. Wow that's pretty alarming. I posted a question about general safety on this thread myself a few posts back, asking just how bad it was. But I read your opinion to mean that, even using protective measures, that STDs in general are so rampant, and sexual behaviors so loose, that it is impossible to bring the risk down to a reasonably conservative level. Is it like that everywhere, at tourist places like Donsol or Siargao, where I was thinking of going anyway? Or just AC and Manila?

I had to ask because, after reading through the forum, I have noticed that the term 'Safe Sex' was being used in two ways, with widely different implications.

In the first way, I use the term 'safe sex' to imply the use of condoms or any other prophylactic measure to prevent the acquisition of STDs. In the second way, I have noticed that many posters always go bareback because they like it and presume it as the norm, and then imply 'safe sex' to mean the odds of acquiring something while going bareback.

Thanks!

[AfAsia]

I look a short way down the road and see this plague being quarantined. 'It' is determined to infect all who post on South East Asia threads.