German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Mongerer88]

You do a wonderful job of summarizing the financial issues, but I am not sure Pahllus was really interested in a genuine financial analysis, and it appears that anyone doing so may fall into the category of an enemy MBA type, anyway, to many ISG posters.

A central theme to his posts seems to be a Return of Kings scenario, where a relatively common man can obtain sex at a low price in an upscale environment without much inconvenience, and if that sex is obtained in a commercial transaction, society would approve of it. Kind of like getting sex instead of coffee at Starbucks.

He long ago brought up the possibility of FKKs being in the United States in much the same manner as they are in a Germany, and I believe when I discussed that a very high price would occur unless the USA Allowed Mexicans and Venezuelans to do the sex work, he was not bothered by the concept of that occurring. It wouldn't bother me either, but I cannot envision a scenario where that would happen in the USA, given how many people would object. Germany is different, but I think there are limits to tolerance even in Germany.

So in his theory, I suppose, if FKKs were publicly-traded, then society would have greater acceptance of this activity and local zoning laws would become less of an issue. There would be a commercial sex establishment near everywhere a guy would want to go, the ski slopes, the sports arena, etc. Prices would be affordable since society would accept that the establishments are to be filled with women willing to work for the lowest possible price and some kind of streamlined system like a sex work visa would be available to get poor, but attractive, women to these places, when necessary, since a publicly-traded company would face greater "labor regulations". It would be so efficient that there would even be steady cash flow to return to investors.

It is difficult to know where to even start with this type of analysis other than to point out that the trends in every country I can think of are going the other direction.

Technology allows sex work to be more of a private transaction between two parties than ever before, and most countries, even throughout Europe, are actively discouraging visible public "sex venues". Although Germany bucks the trend, I am not sure it would be willing to go further in the other direction, I. E. , having more facilities near popular attractions. And prices for sex have been going up for quite some time, with perhaps one of the reasons being that poorer immigrant women can use technology to get a price closer to that obtained by local women.

Most of us have long ago accepted that most of society doesn't want this activity shoved in their faces. So we learn to do this activity in a manner that reaches a compromise with them. We simply don't need their approval. But part of that compromise would seem to be that there doesn't need to be a commercial sex establishment on every popular street corner.

And many of us don't think that an equilibrium price can exist for a labor market that is too dominated by immigrants. I am skeptical that any local population, even a Germans, would be tolerant of many "Starbucks type legal brothels" of a publicly-traded FKKs around ski slopes having mostly Romanians as the "sex baristas". This may be the case at FKKs now, but the publicity if that occurred within a publicly-traded FKK would be a much bigger deal.

OK, I am merely a messenger. You can shoot down the messenger, but the issue is that the message that you do not like will still be the same true message. I think you missed the central point of my argument. There is almost no demand from Any investors wanting to invest in this phantom FKK stock (besides from some hardcore mongers here perhaps, but even that point is doubtful. Only when it comes to ponying up real money will we know how many of these hardcore mongers will be down for it and how much).

Secondly, there is no compelling need for extra capital from the current owners of FKKs, as they seem to be operating just fine with whatever venues they have. The current FKK market is served quite well with the set of owners and their investors. Finally, you completely ignored that listing as a stock will only add to the expenses and not provide any real benefits for a FKK owner.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist. You are obviously welcome to bash MBAs and whoever else, and if you want we can come back in 5 years to see if this fictitious FKK stock has floated and how much money any of you made from it..

[Pessimist]

All valid concerns Pessimist. However, there is the London AIM and others that greatly reduce costs and are aimed at smaller companies.

As for MBA and banks, we have seen how badly they do stuff, and but for ability to borrow fro the Fed at <0. 5% and lend at 3-4% (and in the case of credit cards, 20% they off little genuine yield or innovation. Most of the suits are parasites, with no personal risk and lots of useless power point decks for suckers, usually people investing other people's money and their circle jerk revolving door club. The number of regular tactical, planned bankruptcies and bail outs shows the modern kleptocracy. These rent-seeking folks think the party will never end. But they produce nothing, and people are seeing through them and wanting yield and non-correlated risk to indices the sheep flock to.

I like small, steady profitable companies with a good business that do not try and grown and expand with debt and takeovers for their own sake and bonuses, but have a good core business, pay a steady dividend, have good ROI and healthy layer of retained earnings. Especially ones where the CEO has skin in the game, remuneration is fair, and the Board is made of pitbulls rather than cocker spaniels in collusion with grifters / consultants etc. This is the opposite of most US companies. In a yield starved world and people looking for non-correlated risk, this is a good bet. It will not scale to be an index or suck up pension funds, but that is beauty of the idea..

OK, I am merely a messenger. You can shoot down the messenger, but the issue is that the message that you do not like will still be the same true message. I think you missed the central point of my argument. There is almost no demand from Any investors wanting to invest in this phantom FKK stock (besides from some hardcore mongers here perhaps, but even that point is doubtful. Only when it comes to ponying up real money will we know how many of these hardcore mongers will be down for it and how much).

Secondly, there is no compelling need for extra capital from the current owners of FKKs, as they seem to be operating just fine with whatever venues they have. The current FKK market is served quite well with the set of owners and their investors. Finally, you completely ignored that listing as a stock will only add to the expenses and not provide any real benefits for a FKK owner.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist. You are obviously welcome to bash MBAs and whoever else, and if you want we can come back in 5 years to see if this fictitious FKK stock has floated and how much money any of you made from it.

When internet first came on, and later 4 G and streaming, people thought smut would gain in scale, become profitable and perhaps companies formed and stocks taking off. In the early days of 4 G and early days of iPad, a lot of data traffic was indeed driven by smut. As it is, even the few smut stocks that existed failed and were taken private. Smut and porn and paid sex will never be organized business at the scale needed to form large enough companies and with their stocks trading and investors reaping returns while also consuming the product. I realize this sounds like a wet dream, but that's all it will ever be. This industry will always be grey at best, will always be small scale, mostly independent contractors, doesn't need massive capital, and the scrutiny that comes with being large, public, is incompatible with the financial goals of the owners.

Match.com is not smut, and it has done super well. I wish I could have bought shares in seeking.com being a consumer, but that guy is too smart and will never list his company. As it is, it is borderline legal and he might be quite worried how long that site can be kept alive and stay open. For sure there is a lot of paid sex on that site, I have been a subscriber for a while and I know. Even those companies Like SA and Match.com do not have huge capital needs. The reason they became big is because online networks naturally benefit from monopoly. Consumers want one single seeking.com where all the girls and guys can congregate, Match.com owns pretty much all the top dating sites in the western world, but sex club consumers do not want a single FKK club, they want dozens of clubs all around the country. No single club needs that much more capital. If Sharks owner could access $100 million through a cheap bond or equity raise, what would he do with that? Nothing. Adding a few more rooms, improving club facilities doesn't take that much more money. The only way to scale up in this business is by buying other clubs, but they may not be for sale and consumers do not want all The FKks in the country to be owned by a single company. So, if you offered to the current Sharks owner that you will raise a lot of money from him through an equity offering, I am positive that he will say thanks but no thanks. Perhaps you should try this out for yourself on your next visit. Ask to meet with the owner, see how it goes and please do tell us.

[Polyamorist]

AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME?

Salaam, Phallus. You want FKKs to be public companies, and closer to the American capitalist ideal?

This would entail heavier regulation. First off, increased regulation tends to stifle the sex industry. That's because most government types hate prostitution and organize regulation to suppress it rather than encourage it. Germany 2017 was a classic example.

On the one hand your idea might reduce the influence of the criminal mafias that are steadily destroying the FKK system. On the other hand, it would bring it under the power of a parasitical elite that have championed things like Walmart, the pharmaceutical industry, etc. Essentially you would be replacing a disrespectable set of gangsters with a respectable set of gangsters. Both have an agenda of male disempowerment and sucking the customer dry. The new mob would seek to make the FKK environment similar to a corporate workplace rife with political correctness and everything imaginable would be NSFW, in other words no fun at all.

Sorry, this is not the right solution. By the way, your mailbox is full.

[Pahllus Maximus]

Interesting news, that covers Essen, Cologne and Dusseldorf. Just because it can be done does not mean doing it is wise. Packing a bunch of people together where the girls are getting fucked and sucking several men a night sounds like a good way to spread COVID. I wish that were not the case, but the biological facts remain. Believe me, I will crack open a Krug vintage when this nightmare ends. And never take travel and fun for granted. I feel like we are kind of dead, because life is on hold. I am going to go on a hard core pussy spree at the end of this, threesomes, big tits, BBJ, you name it. I'm sure I am not the only one.

[Pahllus Maximus]

All valid concerns Pessimist. However, there is the London AIM and others that greatly reduce costs and are aimed at smaller companies.

As for MBA and banks, we have seen how badly they do stuff, and but for ability to borrow fro the Fed at <0. 5% and lend at 3-4% (and in the case of credit cards, 20% they off little genuine yield or innovation. Most of the suits are parasites, with no personal risk and lots of useless power point decks for suckers, usually people investing other people's money and their circle jerk revolving door club. The number of regular tactical, planned bankruptcies and bail outs shows the modern kleptocracy. These rent-seeking folks think the party will never end. But they produce nothing, and people are seeing through them and wanting yield and non-correlated risk to indices the sheep flock to.

I like small, steady profitable companies with a good business that do not try and grown and expand with debt and takeovers for their own sake and bonuses, but have a good core business, pay a steady dividend, have good ROI and healthy layer of retained earnings. Especially ones where the CEO has skin in the game, remuneration is fair, and the Board is made of pitbulls rather than cocker spaniels in collusion with grifters / consultants etc. This is the opposite of most US companies. In a yield starved world and people looking for non-correlated risk, this is a good bet. It will not scale to be an index or suck up pension funds, but that is beauty of the idea.

Next, financial data on the clubs is very scarce, but if you took the number of punters and girls paying the entrance fee over year, you would get the headline revenue. Deduct from that cost of energy, water, holding costs of say 5 million euro building, cleaners, security etc, and let's say gross 50% . The over-capacity you mention is probably from clustering in the same places. It was a problem mentioned in Mega-Brothel, a really cool documentary everyone here should watch about behind the scenes at FKKs and the articulate and charming working girl Josie who make anyone a good wife). A question mark would be a seasonal club in ski resort towns, like Switzerland and Austria, making a destination of ski and warm up between ski rides, and most people who ski are pretty affluent.

All good points Pessimist. We lack key data on financials and how much capacity or over capacity there is. Airlines have Revenue Passenger Miles (RPM). Maybe we need Revenue Pussy Mongering. Easily done with a sensor that detects how often and how long a room is used and counting entrances and exits like shopping malls do.

[Pistons]

Well, you could also take Macau as an example. There all the Hong Kong owned and listed casinos have sex trade establishments (saunas) on one of the floors. But the casinos owned by western listed companies don't. And the argue that this is all due to PR towards the general western investor. While the climate in HK is different, and there they don't have anything against it.

So perhaps you would just have to list the company in Hong Kong. Still, I am not a fan of the extra stakeholder. And a state run idea as an equivalent to a university gym is far and away superior in every sense!

Prices also spiked in Macau at the same time that the listed companies took control over the last few privately owned saunas. Sanado for example. And the looks of the girls deteriorated fast.

[Pistons]

Well, you could also take Macau as an example. There all the Hong Kong owned and listed casinos have sex trade establishments (saunas) on one of the floors. But the casinos owned by western listed companies don't. And the argue that this is all due to PR towards the general western investor. While the climate in HK is different, and there they don't have anything against it.

So perhaps you would just have to list the company in Hong Kong. Still, I am not a fan of the extra stakeholder. And a state run idea as an equivalent to a university gym is far and away superior in every sense!

Prices also spiked in Macau at the same time that the listed companies took control over the last few privately owned saunas. Sanado for example.

[PayForIt]

Prostitution is allowed again in NRW with immediate effect. The Higher Administrative Court in NRW has temporarily suspended the prohibition of sexual services. As a result, sexual services inside and outside prostitution facilities are permitted again, and prostitution facilities may be reopened.

The decision is final.

https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/nrw-prostitutionsstaetten-duerfen-wieder-oeffnen-sexuelle-dienstleistungen-sind-wieder-erlaubt_179785.html

Great news. Any information about when any of the clubs will actually open then?

[Mr Ho]

Yeah, "Germans are going to German," it's in their blood.

I was at GT during a raid a few years ago, and I could suddenly understand Germany's "history" a lot better.

If you have to do a job like checking IDs, then do it professionally, efficiently but also courteously, but the German police was obviously there with a politically correct agenda: and it showed! What a bunch of arrogant Muppet, especially considering how the German police failed miserably in 2015 when hundreds of women were raped in the centre of Cologne during the New Year's celebrations and the authorities and media tried to cover everything up.

Yeah, they were very authoritarian like in Artemis when that that happened too, and it was raining and in winter and they made all people stood out side, I was wearing bathrobe, but some girls were with just a towel around their body, but not allowed back in even get a robe, I wonder if mongers had to pay for the time in room they missed out though LOL Imagine you are 20th minutes in and about to cum in few minutes and alarm goes off LOL you got like 10 min once the alarm issue is solved? Or you have to extend the session due to alarm LOL.

[Sirioja]

Prostitution is allowed again in NRW with immediate effect. The Higher Administrative Court in NRW has temporarily suspended the prohibition of sexual services. As a result, sexual services inside and outside prostitution facilities are permitted again, and prostitution facilities may be reopened.

The decision is final.

https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/nrw-prostitutionsstaetten-duerfen-wieder-oeffnen-sexuelle-dienstleistungen-sind-wieder-erlaubt_179785.html

Prostitution is not forbidden in Hessen with Sharks girls escorting, but all brothels are closed since mid March. Paradise Sarrebrucken and Artemis are with mask. Not so erotic when You need beauty to desire.

[Kamsutra69]

Who would have thought this would happen before they open up the skies for mongers to fly in? Let's hope that the rules are followed to avoid FKK's from becoming corona hotspots. If that happens, it might just mean the end of FKK's.

Safe mongering!

Prostitution is allowed again in NRW with immediate effect. The Higher Administrative Court in NRW has temporarily suspended the prohibition of sexual services. As a result, sexual services inside and outside prostitution facilities are permitted again, and prostitution facilities may be reopened.

The decision is final.

https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/nrw-prostitutionsstaetten-duerfen-wieder-oeffnen-sexuelle-dienstleistungen-sind-wieder-erlaubt_179785.html

[Pistons]

The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Well, you could also take Macau as an example. There all the Hong Kong owned and listed casinos have sex trade establishments (saunas) on one of the floors. But the casinos owned by western listed companies don't. And the argue that this is all due to PR towards the general western investor. While the climate in HK is different, and there they don't have anything against it.

So perhaps you would just have to list the company in Hong Kong. Still, I am not a fan of the extra stakeholder. And a state run idea as an equivalent to a university gym is far and away superior in every sense!

[Turgid]

Good news indeed: https://www.bild.de/regional/duessel...tmc=whtspp.shr.

To all you cats out there lucky enough to indulge in our favorite pastime at our favorite locales please be safe and follow diligently all prescribed rules so that there is no spike in infections coming from FKKs. I want FKKs to remain open until I am able to return.

[Pistons]

Good news indeed: https://www.bild.de/regional/duessel...tmc=whtspp.shr.

From that article it sounds like a done deal then!

Just not sure what the outcome regarding face masks were. Anyone knows? The questionmark in the headline is a bit confusing.

The good thing here is that nrw can easily stand on their own. It is not like rheinland pfalz who more has to look to their larger neighbours. But with nrw and the Mnster court opening it up, I bet rheinland pfalz will also join in quite soon now too.

And then Hessen should be next perhaps?

[Maxime]

Good news indeed: https://www.bild.de/regional/duessel...tmc=whtspp.shr.