German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pahllus Maximus]

I think Pessimist wins the argument. Hard to scale up what is essentially a cottage industry on the margins of society and little or no empirical data. Secondly, supply of low cost young pussy from economically depressed countries without border aka Schengen zone is key.

[BigBuddy69]

That's gossip as usual. It was also supposed to close 2 or 3 years ago. Some guys pretend that they are "connaisseurs" and friends with the management or I don't know what, the truth is that they don't know shit.

[Clodius1]

LR will reopen tomorrow on Sept. 11th.

Babylon will reopen on Thursday, September 17th.

I thought I read here that LR is permanently shut down and that they are moving their operations to Villa Vanilla? I must be wrong. Can anyone clarify this?

[PayForIt]

Any indication at all about when the Hessen clubs can re-open?

[Pistons]

[Pistons]

[Bfsie]

LR will reopen tomorrow on Sept. 11th.

Babylon will reopen on Thursday, September 17th.

[PayForIt]

Should I post more? What do you mean? Thought I made almost too many posts recently, but if you say so.

LOL. Sorry. Meant nothing yet from Oceans not Pistons!

[Pistons]

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/...tion-ring-case

I am not sure my last link worked, so we try again.

[Sirioja]

OK, just for PayForit, I will recopy this post into this subforum also. As I suppose not everyone reads the Austrian forum here, and even less reads the Slovenian forum.

Marina (Slovenia).

I came across this very interesting story:

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/...tion-ring-case

So it seems the Slovenian Interior Ministry of State Franc Kangler is putting this on the agenda. Meaning the final word when it comes to Marina might not have been said.

Read:

'Kangler said the NBI, which worked on the case for several years, had forged documents, conducted house searches without warrants, monitored and photographed the lawyers of the defendants and illegally violated privacy.'

And as we all know, evidence gained through illegal conduct can not be used legally. For example the illegal violation of privacy. Which is part of an EU legal bill that came through in 2015 if I am not mistaken. Meaning, they have no valuable evidence of any P6 activity whatsoever. And if so is the case, then the owners of the club may actually both be allowed to reopen (once the covid-19 is over), and be able to take the NBI into court, and demand a hefty reimbursement.

When Wellcum fell for quality for girls and even before virus, but already on Summer 2019, I would be happy if Marina could reopen, and maybe finding again Mila.

[Pistons]

OK, just for PayForit, I will recopy this post into this subforum also. As I suppose not everyone reads the Austrian forum here, and even less reads the Slovenian forum.

Marina (Slovenia).

I came across this very interesting story:

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/...tion-ring-case

So it seems the Slovenian Interior Ministry of State Franc Kangler is putting this on the agenda. Meaning the final word when it comes to Marina might not have been said.

Read:

'Kangler said the NBI, which worked on the case for several years, had forged documents, conducted house searches without warrants, monitored and photographed the lawyers of the defendants and illegally violated privacy.'

And as we all know, evidence gained through illegal conduct can not be used legally. For example the illegal violation of privacy. Which is part of an EU legal bill that came through in 2015 if I am not mistaken. Meaning, they have no valuable evidence of any P6 activity whatsoever. And if so is the case, then the owners of the club may actually both be allowed to reopen (once the covid-19 is over), and be able to take the NBI into court, and demand a hefty reimbursement.

[Pistons]

. Notably nothing yet from Pistons, and nothing about the clubs in Hessen opening up yet.

Should I post more? What do you mean? Thought I made almost too many posts recently, but if you say so.

[Mr Ho]

So. Lot's of great posts (thanks) about when clubs are re-opening. Notably nothing yet from Pistons, and nothing about the clubs in Hessen opening up yet. Are virus cases in Hessen high?

Query: I was a little surprised to see the jump in prices in Artemis - 90 e entry and 70/30 minutes. Of course it has always been the most expensive FKK (so far as I know) with previous prices 80 e and 60/30 compared to 50/30 almost everywhere else and lower entry fees. As has been quoted, this will reflect the monopoly the club enjoys in Berlin (in itself very odd. Why on earth don't some entrepreneurs open other FKKs in Berlin. There must be room for 3 or 4 at least like in Frankfurt). My query is whether members think we will now see prices increase (entry and room prices) in other clubs. A chance for the club and girls to attempt to recover some lost income whilst closed? It goes without saying I hope not! But it will be interesting to see if this opportunity is seized upon. Prices in Spain in at least one big club (Scandalos Malaga) increased significantly after re-opening. Hope that won't be followed throughout Germany but worrying that it happened in Spain and now in Berlin and causes me to think it might be repeated elsewhere.

Girls upsell culture of Artemis moved onto the management too LOL!

[Sirioja]

Yeah, "Germans are going to German," it's in their blood.

I was at GT during a raid a few years ago, and I could suddenly understand Germany's "history" a lot better.

If you have to do a job like checking IDs, then do it professionally, efficiently but also courteously, but the German police was obviously there with a politically correct agenda: and it showed! What a bunch of arrogant Muppet, especially considering how the German police failed miserably in 2015 when hundreds of women were raped in the centre of Cologne during the New Year's celebrations and the authorities and media tried to cover everything up.

On 2017 , I was at LR for 3 polizei controls, no more ashtrays, girls had to go to smoke outside with only towel in cold in February. So funny to see guys leaving like rabbits, had great days for my big balls, my girl being full free, so welcoming, even she always chose me first, putting her hair as I liked and I didn't even need to ask her, my big balls being happy to empty on our 2 rooms on each control. When Swiss polizei put pressure on you threatening to put you in jail, and they did, visiting 3 different jails and even small room with no window on 6 days, also robbering you, German polizei I met quite often, is much more relax and honest, joking about my overspeed, only caught on autobahn and telling them: you don't catch Germans, but only foreigners. When they control me on overspeed or leaving a club, for alcohol test, I tell them: if your machine don't say 0 , then your machine don't work, so they look at me, and machine always say 0 . Had only one big problem in Singen because I was forbidden to drive in Germany, but I don't read German, they didn't put me in jail and problem was solved with Speyer central.

[Pessimist]

You do a wonderful job of summarizing the financial issues, but I am not sure Pahllus was really interested in a genuine financial analysis, and it appears that anyone doing so may fall into the category of an enemy MBA type, anyway, to many ISG posters.

A central theme to his posts seems to be a Return of Kings scenario, where a relatively common man can obtain sex at a low price in an upscale environment without much inconvenience, and if that sex is obtained in a commercial transaction, society would approve of it. Kind of like getting sex instead of coffee at Starbucks.

He long ago brought up the possibility of FKKs being in the United States in much the same manner as they are in a Germany, and I believe when I discussed that a very high price would occur unless the USA Allowed Mexicans and Venezuelans to do the sex work, he was not bothered by the concept of that occurring. It wouldn't bother me either, but I cannot envision a scenario where that would happen in the USA, given how many people would object. Germany is different, but I think there are limits to tolerance even in Germany.

So in his theory, I suppose, if FKKs were publicly-traded, then society would have greater acceptance of this activity and local zoning laws would become less of an issue. There would be a commercial sex establishment near everywhere a guy would want to go, the ski slopes, the sports arena, etc. Prices would be affordable since society would accept that the establishments are to be filled with women willing to work for the lowest possible price and some kind of streamlined system like a sex work visa would be available to get poor, but attractive, women to these places, when necessary, since a publicly-traded company would face greater "labor regulations". It would be so efficient that there would even be steady cash flow to return to investors.

It is difficult to know where to even start with this type of analysis other than to point out that the trends in every country I can think of are going the other direction..

Thank you Mongerer88. Great points. I agree that sex industry would want to stay low key, below the radar, decentralized. But the key disagreement with him is "why stocks"? Private ownerships will work just fine and only they will work in the sex industry in my view. Everything he wants to see, achieve, and happen can work with private partnerships. So, he can, in theory, get together with a handful / few dozen / whatever number of like-minded investors, acquire a club, run it well, and if inshallah willing (as Polyamorist would say) their profits grow, acquire even more clubs. I think that is perfectly feasible, and that is what exists today. What exactly does the business getting listed in the stock market do for him? Added expense, added scrutiny, and not much upside.

Of course if you have $5 grand in the bank and looking to become an FKK owner, it will not happen with the private partnership structure. So, perhaps they dream of public stocks, with they hope that they can buy 50 shares at $100 each. That is too bad. One can't always have what one dreams of. We live in a real world, and it has its own realities. Wishing away those realities is well, just wishful thinking.

"So in his theory, I suppose, if FKKs were publicly-traded, then society would have greater acceptance of this activity and local zoning laws would become less of an issue" - yeah, I sense that attitude. And that is the problem. Public acceptance of a business allows for that stock to flourish but merely a stock getting listed does not lead to greater public acceptance. The cause and effect are reversed in that thinking. It is one reason why those FKK ownerships stay private. Because the owners know there is limited public acceptance.

Take cannabis and tobacco. The acceptance of cannabis in US society took a long time to happen, even now not everyone is happy with it although practically every single presidential candidate has smoked weed at some point in life. Now, there are a few cannabis stocks such as CGC, Aurora, Acreage Holdings, etc. I don't follow this industry, I have never bought their stocks, I am not an expert on them. But I do know that these stocks getting listed and trading on public markets did not change anyone's prior views or acceptance of marijuana. Rather, marijuana was widely used, slowly became more accepted, and then became legal. And sure enough, a few large enough companies with real revenues and profits emerged, and they got listed and trade now, and people own them to make money, not to make a statement.

And that is the key thing. Very few people are foolish enough to buy stocks because they want to make a statement. You keep your money and emotions separated, or else you will soon part with your money and only have bad taste in mouth and hurt emotions in your heart.

Take tobacco on the other hand. Tobacco stocks have existed for decades. They were some of the most valuable companies in the world. Tobacco stocks were a key part of the largest, most important investment fund families. They still stayed legal. But the public sentiment on tobacco soured over decades. Altria, British tobacco, Japan tobacco, PM all still trade, all still very large, but stock prices are down nearly half from a few years ago, and again the stock being traded is not influencing anyone positively but rather people's opinion of tobacco turning negative over time has kept on these stock prices.

A stock getting listed does not even mean there will be greater competition and service shall improve. Competition increases and service improves quite independently of whether clubs are owned privately or as a stock in public hands. Competition is weak in Berlin and prices and service are not great at Artemis. There is more competition, more clubs in NRW and relatively speaking service has been better. All of them privately owned.

Since we are in German forums, the most important part of German industry is the famous Mittelstand. Germany is roughly a 40-45% bigger economy than France but France has more "large enterprises" and a bigger weight in MSCI Europe than Germany does. The true backbone of German industry is however the Mittelstand companies. These are small, medium, some are up to billions in revenue but many stayed private. Fiercely independent, largely family owed and passed generation to generation, these are extremely competitive, very well run, but many or most of them are NOT listed. They are privately owned.