German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Akibono]

The main argument from the brothel owners was that because the massage parlors and other body-contact business like tattoo studios and nail salons are allowed to reopen, the brothels with "hygiene concept" should have the same rights and be allowed to reopen due to the similiarity. "Hygiene concept" is mainly defined as collecting personal info of prostitute visitors such as phone number and email address and wearing masks during the sessions as required by the government measures for other body-contact business.

The main reasoning for the rejections by the courts was that prostitute visitors will not give real personal info because they are afraid that their wives, relatives, friends and other people will know they visited prostitutes. In a few cases the judges also believe that wearing masks during sex is unrealistic.

While I do hope the clubs would open, the courts and the governments are right. With fresh outbreaks everywhere, brothels are a significant risk that is hard to mitigate. In general, the sex industry creates a lot of problems from trafficking to money laundering. That is why they are frequently targeted. It is not just the feminist argument. But they do serve a place in society too. What we have consistently seen with the virus is short term decisions made with the emphasis on profits do not work. If an outbreak is traced to a brothel, you can expect them all to be shut down. Brothels have many high risk factors. Travelers from distant places. No social distancing and difficulty of using masks as well as confined areas. None of this is favorable in controlling the virus. The best hope is driving the number of infections very low, to non-existent, in as great an area as possible and restricting mobility. Escorts are a better option at this time.

[Sirioja]

Your health is important to us that's why we close our club temporarily.

Stay healthy, we're looking forward to see you soon.

Your Artemis-Team.

Good for me Artemis is closed, because I could find at Globe a elegant new beauty, as rare as pandas now at Globe, much prettier face than Linda, Megan level for face, and really lovely with good manners. Just miss little Romanian spark, but real pleasure with such sophisticated beauty, I drive and pay for this. Despite 2 hours of engine mechanic going to Zurich, since 50000 kms I don't know how I will succeed to make it reliable, but as I told her at the end of our discovery, I returned on next week end, I always try to respect my promise, even in brothels.

[Pessimist]

Unfortunately, mongers, WGs, brothel operators do not have much political influence. Protests from stigmatized, marginalized populations like us would fall on deaf ears. Not only that, the number of mongers is numerically small, and the amount of mongers who would openly identify as mongers to support a "Monger Lives Matter" movement would be even smaller. For issues such as reopening (or legalization), it requires the support of "outsider" parties (social workers, politicians). Would be curious to see the turn out of this protest in Cologne on 29th: https://allevents.in/cologne/hurende...00019940576753.

When participating in such polls about activities that are not socially acceptable, some men might lie. This is a valid argument. I assume their surveying methodology would allow for some anonymity. Perhaps a written survey that one can fill out without providing their name. About ten percent of men in Germany visit brothels. Amongst the men who admitted to visiting brothels, 35 percent go at least once a month. Perhaps we need to increase the estimate by 25 percent to get the "actual numbers": https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/u...id_834202.html.

We keep debating this. There has never been a time in the history of any nation I am aware of, where a majority of men proudly and openly admitted to being mongers, or a lot of ladies admitted to being prostitutes. It has always had a stigma attached to it and yet is the world's oldest profession and is one of the most recession proof activities. In a prior post, you simply said there was more support in 2002 and somehow things changed because they expected some improvement due to legalization and instead were turned off by the trafficking. While no doubt there is some reevaluation and some disappointment, I think that is too much of a glib explanation. Personally, I am willing to wait and see how this turns out and not be despondent immediately. I am more of an incrementalist and do not trust forecasts of massive step changes.

[Pessimist]

The main argument from the brothel owners was that because the massage parlors and other body-contact business like tattoo studios and nail salons are allowed to reopen, the brothels with "hygiene concept" should have the same rights and be allowed to reopen due to the similiarity. "Hygiene concept" is mainly defined as collecting personal info of prostitute visitors such as phone number and email address and wearing masks during the sessions as required by the government measures for other body-contact business.

The main reasoning for the rejections by the courts was that prostitute visitors will not give real personal info because they are afraid that their wives, relatives, friends and other people will know they visited prostitutes. In a few cases the judges also believe that wearing masks during sex is unrealistic.

Interesting. Thanks for that. Seems like the rationale of judges is sound and also practical.

Seems like they are concerned about spread of the virus, as much as the first contact itself. I. e. Not whether a guy / girl catches corona from the girl / guy or another monger but also whether it can traced afterwards? I guess the masks during sex issue shows some concern for the former.

Of course if you actually ask any real monger if mask during sex is likely, I think the chance they will say "fuck no!" is very high, LOL. Not to mention, those masks are so stifling even during normal store visits etc, if a guy is pumping the girl vigorously during sex w / a mask, he might suffer real breathing problems.

Is there a second level appeal process after first level of rulings?

[McAdonis]

In FKKs the customers were happy and the working girls were happy. The only people who were unhappy were the impotent men and frigid women in authority.

Unfortunately, mongers, WGs, brothel operators do not have much political influence. Protests from stigmatized, marginalized populations like us would fall on deaf ears. Not only that, the number of mongers is numerically small, and the amount of mongers who would openly identify as mongers to support a "Monger Lives Matter" movement would be even smaller. For issues such as reopening (or legalization), it requires the support of "outsider" parties (social workers, politicians). Would be curious to see the turn out of this protest in Cologne on 29th: https://allevents.in/cologne/hurende...00019940576753.

Do you have proof that only a small percentage of population pays for sex? Given the amount of sex workers and establishments in a country like Germany I think it's more common than you think, but not too many people will admit paying for sex

When participating in such polls about activities that are not socially acceptable, some men might lie. This is a valid argument. I assume their surveying methodology would allow for some anonymity. Perhaps a written survey that one can fill out without providing their name. About ten percent of men in Germany visit brothels. Amongst the men who admitted to visiting brothels, 35 percent go at least once a month. Perhaps we need to increase the estimate by 25 percent to get the "actual numbers": https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/u...id_834202.html.

[Alessandro527]

The main argument from the brothel owners was that because the massage parlors and other body-contact business like tattoo studios and nail salons are allowed to reopen, the brothels with "hygiene concept" should have the same rights and be allowed to reopen due to the similiarity. "Hygiene concept" is mainly defined as collecting personal info of prostitute visitors such as phone number and email address and wearing masks during the sessions as required by the government measures for other body-contact business.

The main reasoning for the rejections by the courts was that prostitute visitors will not give real personal info because they are afraid that their wives, relatives, friends and other people will know they visited prostitutes. In a few cases the judges also believe that wearing masks during sex is unrealistic.

I think that the main reason does not have to do with the visitors but the girls. None of them will use mask or take hygiene measures because they give a shit to all this when it comes to the colour of money, let's be realistic.

FKK clubs cannot work with measures, it will be either like before or they close.

[Bfsie]

What are the grounds on which they are suing? Differential treatment of various establishments? Is it because German government allowed some establishments like restaurants to open and FKKs and other commercial sex centers feel they have the same rights?

I assume German central government or the local governments have the legal ability to shut down businesses in their local jurisdictions due to reasons such as a pandemic outbreak?

The main argument from the brothel owners was that because the massage parlors and other body-contact business like tattoo studios and nail salons are allowed to reopen, the brothels with "hygiene concept" should have the same rights and be allowed to reopen due to the similiarity. "Hygiene concept" is mainly defined as collecting personal info of prostitute visitors such as phone number and email address and wearing masks during the sessions as required by the government measures for other body-contact business.

The main reasoning for the rejections by the courts was that prostitute visitors will not give real personal info because they are afraid that their wives, relatives, friends and other people will know they visited prostitutes. In a few cases the judges also believe that wearing masks during sex is unrealistic.

[Alessandro527]

Thanks for info. Does this mean eg Artemis "current open hours" on webside I fake news?

Your health is important to us that's why we close our club temporarily.

Stay healthy, we're looking forward to see you soon.

Your Artemis-Team.

[Tuber19]

wrong post

[Uggabugga]

Thanks for info. Does this mean eg Artemis "current open hours" on webside I fake news?

There is no ONE website we can follow. From what I have read from a German board, it seems that reopening the sex establishments (including FKK clubs) would not come from German government probably until vaccine or effective drugs are developed.

There were some lawsuits from various brothels, but all of them failed. It is still possible that one or a few lawsuits would succeed in the future, but most of these lawsuits would come from normal brothels, not FKK clubs because I think that the owners of FKK clubs know there is almost no chance that their lawsuits will succeed at this point.

[Pessimist]

There is no ONE website we can follow. From what I have read from a German board, it seems that reopening the sex establishments (including FKK clubs) would not come from German government probably until vaccine or effective drugs are developed.

There were some lawsuits from various brothels, but all of them failed. It is still possible that one or a few lawsuits would succeed in the future, but most of these lawsuits would come from normal brothels, not FKK clubs because I think that the owners of FKK clubs know there is almost no chance that their lawsuits will succeed at this point.

What are the grounds on which they are suing? Differential treatment of various establishments? Is it because German government allowed some establishments like restaurants to open and FKKs and other commercial sex centers feel they have the same rights?

I assume German central government or the local governments have the legal ability to shut down businesses in their local jurisdictions due to reasons such as a pandemic outbreak?

[Bfsie]

What was the website you guys were following to find the latest news on potential FKK openings in Germany?

There is no ONE website we can follow. From what I have read from a German board, it seems that reopening the sex establishments (including FKK clubs) would not come from German government probably until vaccine or effective drugs are developed.

There were some lawsuits from various brothels, but all of them failed. It is still possible that one or a few lawsuits would succeed in the future, but most of these lawsuits would come from normal brothels, not FKK clubs because I think that the owners of FKK clubs know there is almost no chance that their lawsuits will succeed at this point.

[Mr Ho]

What was the website you guys were following to find the latest news on potential FKK openings in Germany?

I do hear SS is hot right now, and the Austrian clubs are improving. But I'm still a bit on the fence here.

I check the website called: http://internationalsexguide.nl/ LOL!

[Mr Ho]

If you mean 6 ens NL with girls wearing mask in lounge bar, when usually very average casting, maybe prettier with mask.

LOL Mask LOL!

I bet within first few minutes, set sentence said to girls by mongers would be like, can you lift up your mask? LOL Then mask off test is pass, let go to the room, and the mask off test is failed, you tell her, you have to return some video tapes and walks away LOL.

[Mr Ho]

In 2002, there seemed to be more widespread support for legalization. I believe the pendulum has swung the other way. Most WGs do not want to register, despite the legal protections, insurances, and pension. No different than mongers who by and large do not want to register. From a human rights perspective, I believe the alleged increase in trafficking activity since 2002 has brought negative attention to Germany.

So yes, "failed experiment" might employ them giving up entirely. Clearly what the government did was reassess, and introduce stricter legislation in an attempt to curb the problem (I. E. all WGs must register, all WGs must provide physical permanent address and not sleep in club etc). But if the attempts to curb the problem are not successful, then what?

In the worst case scenario, we got Switzerland, that money aggressive nation will always provide prostitution. Legal age was 18, but it was even 16 before, now changed back to 18. Switzerland is our last place standing in rainy day, if such rainy day will come.