German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pistons]

, the only real way for these laws to make a difference is for guys to think they do. If prostitution is allowed to continue in some form, then other than self-enforcement, various restrictions won't be any more effective than they are now.

Don't believe the hype.

Good luck on restricting the hormones on millions of single men.

Lets get real here? The only way to stop it is complete orwellian control of the population ala 1984. Big Brother sees you, illiberal fanatical society. And who wants that? Any sane person would say that such a society is far far worse of a nightmare than some petty crimes like selling sex. Something every single mammal naturally does by nature.

And by making something illegal, you make it popular too. Just look at the marijuana trade.

I personally think the luciferians rule the world. And taking a look at the Georgia Guidestones, petty crimes will be legalized. But there may be setbacks such as this. Although for the time being, legalizing the sale, and illegalizing the purchase of sex may be a tool used to extort individuals the elite doesn't like.

[Neurosynth]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html

...

The most interesting line in the story to me was this (machine translation):

"Critics complain about the lack of effect of the law. ".

As I've been saying for years now...these laws are so far ineffective.

Pendulums swing, and it could be that this is just the beginning of a German clampdown on commercial sex. But as I've been saying all along, the only real way for these laws to make a difference is for guys to think they do. If prostitution is allowed to continue in some form, then other than self-enforcement, various restrictions won't be any more effective than they are now.

Don't believe the hype.

[Bfsie]

Pistons,

I got what you said and have pretty much the idea of how German sex industry would be if Germany became a nation with Nordic model.

Thank you very much again.

[Pessimist]

Well, don't be so comfortable about the future of pay sex in Germany. You have already seen the effects of 2017 laws that unnecessarily destabilized the German standard pricing model to a price haggling model similar to USA and UK. You never know what happens when liberals go crazy; they will ban plastic straws but provide free plastic syringes to inject heroine. Or like in UK, they will hold a vote but will not respect the result of the vote if they lose. Someone might just start another #MeToo movement against all pay sex, including arrangements like Seeking.com. In fact, weren't the Harvey Weinstein cases actually the Sugar Babes arrangements of that era? Be careful out there brother.

There was haggling going in FKKs even prior to 2017. Palace turned into a fish market a while ago and Artemis and Oase were not heavenly abodes in early 2017.

It is not being comfortable, it is being realistic. My assessment is that Germany is far from being US (or worse than US) in the near term. If your belief is that I am wrong in my assessment, you are welcome to offer your argument. Also, if I'm wrong, in what timeframe will Germany be as bad as America? Any guess?

As for the rest of your post, it seems to me that you are using this occasion to unload on your pet political peeves. If the GOP puts nationwide legalization of prostitution in their election plank, you have a leg to stand on but I don't see it happening with religious groups being a big part of their base. I also don't think that seeking.com and sugarbabe is in any comparable to Weinstein or Lauer or other slimeballs who were basically [CodeWord127]. I have never hit upon on my female subordinates at work or used my power position to force myself on them. The exchanges on sugarbabe sites are with anonymous strangers with all the terms and prices agreed upon prior to the meet. Part of the reason this is difficult to shut down is simply because there are so many of them.

[Pistons]

I've met plenty of Romanian girls in FKK's in both Germany and Austria who has been where I live. Working. But for maybe just a trip or two. So consider Europe more as one large market. Anything else is naive.

[Pistons]

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

Incall / outcall. Most do both. But it is just more expensive to get outcall I suppose. Or does it make people feel better to name it escort instead of apartment worker? Some girls stay in hotels too, so they tour.

[Pistons]

Thanks a lot, Pistons.

I have several of last questions for you.

Are there less WGs now than before the law was implemented? I would think there are much less WGs now because men are afraid of being caught.

Are the WGs mainly from foreign countries like Romania? If Germany had Nordic model, do you think from your sense that vast majority of the WGs in Germany would still come from Romania (LOL)?

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

The numbers are identical as before the law was introduced. Only some nationalities have changed the past 20 years. Such as there is hardly any polish girls around nowadays, while the polish had plenty 1015 years ago. But the diversity is higher than in Germany even though Romanians (and Moldovan) are the majority. Some south american girls, Russians, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czech etc. Previously the age was higher for the average girls, but it has gone down a bit the last 5 years at the same time Germany has deteriorated a bit. So the old ones feel a squeeze I suppose.

Mainly apartment ads and a few streetwalkers. Streetwalkers are clearly pimped I suppose, and only Rom / Bul, but some apartment girls may be on their own. There used to be Nigerian streetwalkers too, but the Nigerian crime syndicate got kicked out by some of the EE groups.

[Bfsie]

Cops are busy wanking. Heck, I believe 99% of all cases gets thrown away. This is seen as petty crimes. So unless there is a massive media hype around trafficking in single cities, cops won't spend resources on it. And from what I hear, locals are less of a target as compared to 'tourists'. But the fines can be large if you get one I suppose. Many girls also point out in their ads that they only take local customers also. And some target out certain backgrounds as not allowed. Such as African or Arabic for example. So selective ra* But there was more of that a few years ago. So it is a bit hard to say the reason for this I suppose.

Then again, prices have fallen since the laws were implemented. And its not good for the girls. But a lositive the last few years now is that the girls are getting prettier, as the general mindset is that Germany is less attractive. And the German market has historically attracted more girls.

Thanks a lot, Pistons.

I have several of last questions for you.

Are there less WGs now than before the law was implemented? I would think there are much less WGs now because men are afraid of being caught.

Are the WGs mainly from foreign countries like Romania? If Germany had Nordic model, do you think from your sense that vast majority of the WGs in Germany would still come from Romania (LOL)?

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

[Gino02]

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I think the 2017 law implemented some minor changes and very little has changed in terms of actual availability of sex in any shape. Several billion Euros are made every year and this industry provides employment and sustenance to several hundreds of thousands of people and an outlet to many many men seeking sex. I would not jump to any conclusion that their provincial resolution leads to any outright ban on sale and purchase of sex in the near term at the country level.

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion..

Well, don't be so comfortable about the future of pay sex in Germany. You have already seen the effects of 2017 laws that unnecessarily destabilized the German standard pricing model to a price haggling model similar to USA and UK. You never know what happens when liberals go crazy; they will ban plastic straws but provide free plastic syringes to inject heroine. Or like in UK, they will hold a vote but will not respect the result of the vote if they lose. Someone might just start another #MeToo movement against all pay sex, including arrangements like Seeking.com. In fact, weren't the Harvey Weinstein cases actually the Sugar Babes arrangements of that era? Be careful out there brother.

[Bfsie]

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion. I think the same is true for other bible thumping regional cities. With the internet and guys and girls getting matched up one to one through an exchange like sugar babe site (seeking.com or other), the number of interactions to monitor are in the millions per day. I am not seeing any evidence that federal authorities are either interested in cracking down on these one to one exchanges or pursuing legal charges against the guys or girls. As long as sex is not being sold at the traffic light stops by obviously looking prostitutes, things seem to be fine around here and I doubt very much that Germany becomes less tolerant and more draconian than USA in the near term.

It wouldn't affect me that much even if Germany adopted Nordic model as you alluded because I am mainly using sugarbabies now. I agree that Sugarbabe business is very difficult for the authority in any country to combat with and get any evidence of chargeable criminal offence.

[Bfsie]

How realistic is it for this law to pass though?

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I don't know. It seems to get the momentum now in the SPD, one of two biggest parties in Germany historically. Some smaller parties in Germany have already committed to adopt Nordic model, so did some lawmakers in almost all the parties.

I wonder how common was it prior to 2017 to see such articles and hear about political parties wanting to end prostitution in Germany?

And Mr Ho, Pessimist.

Not at all. In fact I have never heard of it before 2018. As I said before, the core problem is that those politicians are fighting a defenseless enemy, the sex industry which doesn't have any organization representing them politically unlike say the industries in USA. German sex industry with annual revenue of about 15 billions euro doesn't have a single political lobby group or its trade union representing the industry and every FKK club, brothel, monger and so on are on their own. Vast majority of the German parliamentarians are not die-hard opponents of prostitution and they can be either for Nordic model or against Nordic model. But if they don't face any resistance from sex industry, they will go along with a few die-hard politicians who strongly oppose prostitution and want to adopt Nordic model. A few politicians saw no reaction and resistance of the 2017 new law from sex industry and want to take advantage of the weakness of sex industry in Germany now unfortunately.

Lastly is Austria / Switzerland facing a similar attack against prostitution and are they also considering the shitty Nordic model?

I don't know anything about Austria and Switzerland.

[Pistons]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

Cops are busy wanking. Heck, I believe 99% of all cases gets thrown away. This is seen as petty crimes. So unless there is a massive media hype around trafficking in single cities, cops won't spend resources on it. And from what I hear, locals are less of a target as compared to 'tourists'. But the fines can be large if you get one I suppose. Many girls also point out in their ads that they only take local customers also. And some target out certain backgrounds as not allowed. Such as African or Arabic for example. So selective ra* But there was more of that a few years ago. So it is a bit hard to say the reason for this I suppose.

Then again, prices have fallen since the laws were implemented. And its not good for the girls. But a lositive the last few years now is that the girls are getting prettier, as the general mindset is that Germany is less attractive. And the German market has historically attracted more girls.

[Pessimist]

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I think the 2017 law implemented some minor changes and very little has changed in terms of actual availability of sex in any shape. Several billion Euros are made every year and this industry provides employment and sustenance to several hundreds of thousands of people and an outlet to many many men seeking sex. I would not jump to any conclusion that their provincial resolution leads to any outright ban on sale and purchase of sex in the near term at the country level.

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion. I think the same is true for other bible thumping regional cities. With the internet and guys and girls getting matched up one to one through an exchange like sugar babe site (seeking.com or other), the number of interactions to monitor are in the millions per day. I am not seeing any evidence that federal authorities are either interested in cracking down on these one to one exchanges or pursuing legal charges against the guys or girls. As long as sex is not being sold at the traffic light stops by obviously looking prostitutes, things seem to be fine around here and I doubt very much that Germany becomes less tolerant and more draconian than USA in the near term.

[MythoVirus]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

I wonder how common was it prior to 2017 to see such articles and hear about political parties wanting to end prostitution in Germany? I got into the FKK scene in 2016, so I didn't do any research prior, is it really escalating quickly or was it the norm even 10-15 years to hear about some political parties wanting to ban the sex industry. Reading those articles just make me depressed, as we all know prostitution will never fade away or be hard to find, but legal brothels and specifically the FKK sauna clubs is just not comparable to escorts / street hookers and can certainly cease to exist if the Nordic model is enforced. Lastly is Austria / Switzerland facing a similar attack against prostitution and are they also considering the shitty Nordic model?

[Sirioja]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

Prostitution is not illegal in France, but prosecution for clients, but when I find a attractive escort, unfortunately more and more rare, even with rdv4U, but now not on ex AMR or charme russe level, but then no problem in apartment or hotel. Also prosecution for clients in Sweden. Old Germans will be sad if they can't fuck AO anymore poor girls.