Thread: German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area
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07-14-19 10:24 #14396
Posts: 465Originally Posted by Bfsie [View Original Post]
The turnover I mentioned is based on the income they make on a regular day on average visits from both mongers and girls and also sales from the bar.
Yes I also agree it is a well tested format because it gives good profits to the owners the way it works. But I expect to see either reduced entry for mongers or free entry for girls. Yes this will raise competition and at the end both will win, customers (including girls) and owners.
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07-14-19 08:52 #14395
Posts: 435Originally Posted by Pksimar69 [View Original Post]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany
Originally Posted by Pksimar69 [View Original Post]
The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market.
Remember Germany is a free-market country and the business in Germany are subject to intense and constant competition from their competitors. If a business is not competitive in terms of its price, it will quickly be out of business.Last edited by Admin3; 07-14-19 at 18:11.
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07-13-19 21:23 #14394
Posts: 22269Originally Posted by Sebastiane [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 20:57 #14393
Posts: 465Originally Posted by Bfsie [View Original Post]
First of all except for Artemis as you mentioned I don't think that other clubs cost that much to be built. Furniture and all equipment and decor is cheap.
Regarding 10 % return on investment. Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year. Running expenses (for which I cannily think about payroll cost as the most expensive) are normally much less maybe 50 % of that. So that is around 45-50 % gross profit before taxation. You.
Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % so there you are what remains in pocket.
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07-13-19 20:11 #14392
Posts: 1361Originally Posted by Sirioja [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 19:25 #14391
Posts: 1162Originally Posted by Pistons [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 17:46 #14390
Posts: 435With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:
1. The owners of FKK clubs invested a lot of money to the clubs. A good size of club can easily cost several million euros. I heard that Artemis costed its owner over 10 millions euro. So every year they need to have profit of certain percentage of investment as investment return. It is not like mom and pop store whose owner would probably be satisfied if he can earn several thousands euro per month. Let's say the owner conservatively wants 10% of investment as profit each year and if the FKK club costed him 5 million euro, so he wants 500K euro (5 millions X 10%) each year as profit. IMO, 10% return on investment is not too greedy (and also see my second point).
2. The establishments like FKK in sex industry is much more vulnerable to be closed down by the government than normal business, due to its nature of business dealing with prostitutes. So the return on FKK investment should be much higher than the return from normal business to cover the risk being shut down prematurely.
3. Current FKK club format is well tested format financially. I am pretty sure that during early stage of FKK club development the owners of FKK clubs already tested various formats including the format of WG's entrance-free you guys discussed about. By the way, don't hope WG's free entrance because, in my opinion, the owners will certainly levy the loss of WG's entrance fee on mongers by asking WGs to pay 50% (or XX%) of WG's session income to them like normal brothels, this will surely raise (possibly double) the session price for mongers and the mongers still have to pay their entrance fee.
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07-13-19 17:30 #14389
Posts: 435Originally Posted by MrHo [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 15:57 #14388
Posts: 1385Interesting discussion about girls' entry fee and how that may be impacting service levels. I think many members made some very valid points. I think Optimist said 25 goes to the government as some sort of license fee? Did that amount change / increase over time? I think it is not reasonable to expect that clubs will lower girls' entry fee to zero because they need to reimburse the government for 25, and also they incur real expenses for food, drinks, other amenities in the club — same amount as they incur in the case of male guests. You can argue they are charging men and women too much entry fee, and whether that is a good argument or not, they do have real expenses and the club managements are not in the charity business to be providing free services and food and goodies to all and sundry.
It would be interesting to compare girls' entry fee amounts in a given locale and see whether differences in those amounts lead to any measurable differences in service levels. For instance, if a club charges 75 and another club nearby charges 100, the girls at the former have a lower threshold to cover their costs. Is there any evidence that girls at that club feel less pressured and hence provide better service?
Clubs can always lower the girls' entry fee to gain market share if they think it is an effective ploy. If they lower from 100 to 75, they can in theory attract more girls which in turn attracts more guys over time. Why are they not doing it? Perhaps they do not think it will work as a good business tactic? Or are these clubs run by managements who are so clueless that they do not know what is good for them? For example, you would not expect Sharks to lower its fee because with the way they currently are, they are still presumably making a large amount of money. But you might expect one of the laggard clubs in the Hessen area to at least try it. Oase lowered fee for men through early entry etc, so we know clubs are aware of the interplay between entry fee and volume growth. If they did not try this in the case of WGs yet, they probably know something we don't.
We also know some new clubs in the early days of the club did allow girls to work with very low entry fee. So, clubs have tried this tactic sporadically but not as a ongoing business strategy.
If the real goal of a club is *long term* profit maximization, it should do what it can to achieve its objective. Of course, some clubs may have other motives, especially those managed by questionable owners in which case their objective may not simply be profit maximization but other motives, potentially illegal. We simply do not know, unless you are an insider.
However, what I do know is that the fact that these entry fee structures have been in place for a long time and nothing much is being done to lower them over time, it is unlikely that they will listen to the pleas of a few people here and lower the amount or remove it altogether. That seems like wishful thinking to me.
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07-13-19 09:38 #14387
Posts: 22269Originally Posted by Sebastiane [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 07:48 #14386
Posts: 7321Originally Posted by Optimist [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 07:47 #14385
Posts: 6686Originally Posted by Akibono [View Original Post]
Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.
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07-13-19 07:38 #14384
Posts: 6686Originally Posted by Polyamorist [View Original Post]
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07-13-19 03:22 #14383
Posts: 7321Originally Posted by Akibono [View Original Post]
But put it this way, they got themselves something they cannot buy easily now called US justice system LOL.
Also, by reading article, most of the sexual act they did is pretty much we mongers get or even less than what we have in the cases that I mentioned.
However, I do also think that there are individuals who live more higher intense crazier monger lives in certain area of this world where money is above law like in some of emerging nations in eastern Europe and south America etc.
The thing is I think there should be boundaries. What we mongers do in FKK for instance is based on consensus and these girls are protected by house and also German law, so it is enjoyable enough for me because it is not totally against these girls will.
As for 50 euro, sometimes I don't know why some mongers including myself fuss with 50 euro more LOL. But I got to say that 150 euro per hour is justifiable upsell, but it is something with this 200 euro per hour upsell that I do not like mentally LOL, it is not that I cannot pay 50 euro extra, but I just hate these scam that kills my mood LOL. But now that you mention it, next time I am in FKK, I might give my self in and see if girls will go more all out in room, which I actually had few experience where I paid 200 euro per hour session and one of it was mind blowing session LOL.
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07-12-19 15:12 #14382
Posts: 4343Originally Posted by Polyamorist [View Original Post]