German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Bobolino]

Just finished my 3 days trip Sharks+Globe+Palace.

Sharks was as usual, some new addition to the LU and some are there for ages.

Had a room with Monika which was surprisingly disappointing, my senses are not as they were. Next day in Globe ZH, after a two years absence still a big wow, hands down any experience in DE. It was a Tuesday when all the rooms are closed and public action rules, including the guy who sat on a strapon that was attached to a the girl below him, public action.

Palace is ready for the Messe, girl are walking in couples offering trio as a basic service, Had a nice room with Claudia.

God bless FKK!

[Pessimist]

Hello Mr. BFsie,

If the 80 euro session was obtained after several meetings with a given girl, then it is a different calculation. I'm not privy to all your SB history (not that I am curious) but that particular meet you listed can't be accurately characterized as a stand-alone 80 for half-hour sugarbabe session because She Perhaps was giving a discount based on the past or expectations of future payments.

Here, weekly and monthly SB arrangements are quite common and we may agree to meeting a couple of times a week but if I meet the girl for a third session in a week, she will charge nothing even if a third meet in the week is not agreed upon originally. I would not characterize that as obtaining free sex with the SB.

I agree completely about the economic disparity. In your neighborhood you can legally walk into a FKK and fuck for 50. We have no such avenue, at least not of equally comparable quality.

I know you said the two continents are similar or the same and I respect your view. I personally don't know anything about the European SB market and can make zero claims about it — whether it is similar to the US or different. In my experience, there are large differences between sugar babes within different cities in the US alone, leaveaside EU. This is very much a free lancer market and every girl sets her own price and there is a large range of expectations. The price range is getting narrower but still a large enough range.

I hardly ever argue much with a girl over price. If a girl asks for too high of allowance amount, I wish her good luck and move on. No arguing, not much bargaining, nothing. There are so many other girls, why waste time on one?

I can't even claim all FKK clubs are similar or the same even though we have club owners enforcing similar pricing across the land. In the sugar babe market, there is no such thing. I myself have paid varying amounts to different girls within my own city, and different amounts to girls in other cities.

If anyone has been able to obtain any fuck sessions for less than 150 (regardless of how much time) with a good looking young white chick on the US on sugarbabe sites, they are welcome to post the experience. I have not seen it first hand. Our SB sessions generally follow a Costco model, which is a longer session, all goodies included, and a bigger amount. Again this is my experience.

Anyway, I realize you are trying to be and being very helpful sharing your experiences and thank you.

[Pistons]

The target in your prediction is vague enough that I suppose you can try to wriggle around to justify it. I was addressing the specific ideas that (1) physical robots could provide a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human, or (2) that a direct brain connection could allow a computer to synthesize a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human.

People, of course, already make physical objects that can deliver a satisfying sexual response. Dildos have been around for hundreds (thousands?) of years. But those are satisfying sexual experiences that would never be mistaken for a human / human encounter. Ditto for current "sex dolls" and so on.

Haptics would be among the technologies required for (1). For (2) by definition haptics or other stimulation of neurons outside of the brain would not be used. But the current technology requires the implantation of hundreds of tiny wires into the brain itself. And even the direct stimulation of hundreds of neurons lacks the data bandwidth to deliver the full range of vision, sound, taste, touch, and smell required to make that experience indistinguishable from, or equivalent to, daily real world experience. In addition, there is little to no understanding as to how to map an intended experience to be delivered into the specific signals sent artificially to specific points of brain contact..

There is nothing in your post which is impossible. Bandwidth? Moore's laws continuation with the new 3 the circuitry, predominantly using nanotubes will solve that problem.

100 wires? Try thousands of wires, or millions, and mathematical geometrics to fine tune it.

What you refer to at the end there is more of a user interface question. Most likely something we will figure out how to solve by studying the brain further. But in order to do so, we need big data. From something like Neuralink, or other similar companies. So the first generation is very important for that information gathering. Worst case: we still need to move around in a small enclosed room with a vr headset on. Yet, the sense out touch itself can be the only thing fooled through the brain machine interface, while the rest is like we have it already.

[Neurosynth]

I will stick to my 5-10 year schedule. But 5 is a little optimistic for it to be useful for sex probably yes. 10 is highly reasonable though.

The target in your prediction is vague enough that I suppose you can try to wriggle around to justify it. I was addressing the specific ideas that (1) physical robots could provide a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human, or (2) that a direct brain connection could allow a computer to synthesize a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human.

People, of course, already make physical objects that can deliver a satisfying sexual response. Dildos have been around for hundreds (thousands?) of years. But those are satisfying sexual experiences that would never be mistaken for a human / human encounter. Ditto for current "sex dolls" and so on.

Haptics would be among the technologies required for (1). For (2) by definition haptics or other stimulation of neurons outside of the brain would not be used. But the current technology requires the implantation of hundreds of tiny wires into the brain itself. And even the direct stimulation of hundreds of neurons lacks the data bandwidth to deliver the full range of vision, sound, taste, touch, and smell required to make that experience indistinguishable from, or equivalent to, daily real world experience. In addition, there is little to no understanding as to how to map an intended experience to be delivered into the specific signals sent artificially to specific points of brain contact.

But let's say we know everything about sending signals to the brain. That's not enough. The computer creating those signals has to "know" what the human recipient is doing. It's not enough for the human to, say, decide that now is the time for insertion. The computer has to somehow know the human has made that decision and then react by creating the signals that "feel" like insertion. Again, this is far out of reach.

So I'm sure there will be "something" 10 years from now that is more advanced than what we now have. But something like "the Matrix" for sex? Not even close.

[HydroPumper]

Gents,

Anyone know what is going on at Colosseum? The link to the models page is gone, the models page is now blank. Worse of all, I have been in personal contact with Adele for almost two years and she has gone silent. Anyone know something?

[Bfsie]

After reading your post, with all due respect and for the purpose of giving the different view to the US and EU readers who might be interested in venturing into this field, I still think the US and EU markets are similar if not same.

I think it is difficult to extremely different to find any girl willing to fuck for 80 bucks here on SB sites. Girls have transportation needs, have to put on makeup and get prepared and come over etc. The actual fuck time together may be 30 min, but the total time budget for her from leaving her door to coming back to her door is much higher, depending on the size of the city and where she lives relative to you. Many girls here ask for Uber money just to meet you for the first time.

I didn't say any of my 80-euro meetings was my first meet with any sugar baby, This price came after I had several meetings with them and made my effort and worked on them to lower the cost per meet. Of course, some of them didn't budge and some of them did. The point is that you have to work on it and make your effort on it as I emphasized on tactics and strategy. In addition, EU and US prices of prostitutes have economic discrepancy and 80 euro for the sugarbabies in Germany may be perceived to $120 or $xxx for the sugarbabies in USA.

Perhaps backpage and Craig's list may have 80 buck hookers. Don't use them myself. Perhaps there are some fat, ugly, older chicks on sugarbabe sites who may be willing to take such small amounts but good looking young chicks are looking to make at least $200 and often a lot more per met. And this is in the cheaper cities. In expensive places like SF and NYC and Boston, it is much more than 200 or 300 per meet.

As I wrote in one of my previous posts, I only do 18 or 19-year-old. I would add now that I only do Caucasian girls with northern European root and normal figure. As some readers here know, I don't go to FKK. After all these years in Germany and another European country, I only went to FKK clubs about 20 times, mainly to GT, and that says all. On ISG I never wrote anything on the FKK threads except GT, here and I think one or two times on other threads. Frankly speaking, it made me depressed to see all those Romanian/Gypsy girls when I was in FKK clubs.

But the upside is that she usually spends more than an hour and often 2 to 3 hours or even more. The per hour rate comes to a low enough amount, even less than 100 dollars, if you play your cards right. In that sense, this is more of a GFE experience than a quick transactional fuck.

I think that the purpose of our discussion is to figure out whether the cost of sugarbaby, which is perceived to be much higher than normal WGs, can be lowered to close, but probably not the same, to normal WG's price. Sure, if anyone is willing to pay $500, $600 or even higher per meet, we shouldn't have this discussion because every monger who knows a little about sugar baby knows that. I think that what you wrote above doesn't prove it can't be $200 or lower per meet with sugar babies in US like in EU.

nothing is an extra, ever. I have done AO with *a few* girls after I got to know them well, anal with more than a handful, and CIM is fairly common. I have never and would never do AO in a FKK,

Same in Germany. For legal reason, I don't want to get into detail on this aspect. I have a 18-year-old girl like my real girlfriend. After she started to see me, she took off her ads on the site and see me exclusively. So you can imagine what we do sexually.

[Pessimist]

In Germany the sugarbabies are also paid per meet like in America. By using my tactics and strategy, all of my meetings were no more than one hour, so the prices in my previous post are the prices per meet and some of my meetings lasted 30 minutes with total cost of 80 euro.

I don't know the sugarbaby scene in America since I retired in my very early 40's more than 15 years ago as a successful bond trader in one of the major wall-street financial firms in New York and moved from New York to Europe to pursue this hobby (well, for me it is addiction LOL).

But I think that the tactics and strategy should be similar everywhere whether it is America or Europe. Unfortunately in this sugarbaby business you have to harmlessly lie. For example, you can say to a local sugar baby that I am a married man and only have time during lunch break, so I can do maximum one hour during lunch break and pay you $200 (or whatever)..

OK, thanks. That's helpful.

From what you described, I think the markets and conditions may be different here and in EU. For one thing, I think it is difficult to extremely different to find any girl willing to fuck for 80 bucks here on SB sites. Girls have transportation needs, have to put on makeup and get prepared and come over etc. The actual fuck time together may be 30 min, but the total time budget for her from leaving her door to coming back to her door is much higher, depending on the size of the city and where she lives relative to you. Many girls here ask for Uber money just to meet you for the first time.

Perhaps backpage and Craig's list may have 80 buck hookers. Don't use them myself. Perhaps there are some fat, ugly, older chicks on sugarbabe sites who may be willing to take such small amounts but good looking young chicks are looking to make at least $200 and often a lot more per meet. And this is in the cheaper cities. In expensive places like SF and NYC and Boston, it is much more than 200 or 300 per meet.

But the upside is that she usually spends more than an hour and often 2 to 3 hours or even more. The per hour rate comes to a low enough amount, even less than 100 dollars, if you play your cards right. In that sense, this is more of a GFE experience than a quick transactional fuck. Also, nothing is an extra, ever. I have done AO with *a few* girls after I got to know them well, anal with more than a handful, and CIM is fairly common. I have never and would never do AO in a FKK, but feel more comfortable with a sugar babe after I know more of her past and present.

But the main thing about sugar babe sites is that even in a national market like US, it is a collection of local markets. Tough to generalize them across this huge nation. Even when I have used sugar babes across some other US cities, I don't know them as well as I know my home city.

[Pistons]

https://www.medgadget.com/2019/03/ne...l-neurons.html

Darpa has been financing this tech for 6 years already, with several initiatives. Neuralink has worked on it for 3 so far.

[Pistons]

Brain / machine interfaces aren't even close yet. They are typically crude yes / no or menu selection devices that remain dependent on computer displays etc. There is nothing that even begins to deliver real-world-like experience.

Current VR technology doesn't use a direct brain / machine interface. Adding haptics to the current use of 3 D head-mounted displays is currently done using crude mechanics and without significant factors such as texture and warmth.

When talking about the future saying something is "impossible" is always dangerous, but 5 - 10 years is not nearly enough time from today to develop artificial sex that is realistic.

I will stick to my 5-10 year schedule. But 5 is a little optimistic for it to be useful for sex probably yes. 10 is highly reasonable though.

- Neuralink has a goal of having a system going for the average joe in 2024. (For handicapped from next year), but first generation is never the best, and chances are it will get a year or two delayed.

- All the needed science is out there. They just need to put it all together, and perhaps change things around a bit to trick the brain immune system from deteriorating the plastics Neuralink seems to be using. But universities have come up with solutions.

- A company financed by darpa has a system in development with 10-20 times more neural threads than Neuralinks new system, and the estimated release date is in 2021. So the military is well ahead.

- Haptics is not needed for BMI's. Haptics is a non-BMI thing, so very irrelevant here. Although I am sure it can be integrated, it is like putting jam on top of jam. And yes, haptics for sex will probably never feel real. Unless you look decades ahead at least.

[Steve 9696]

Just dropped round 3 in the Sharks thread. So good to be back in the FKK saddle. Nothing quite like it worldwide.

[Neurosynth]

...Personally I think the future lies in brain machine interfaces, and sex in a VR world where touch feels realistic. But it is at least 5 years away, and probably 10 before it has started maturing with content and good interfaces.

Brain / machine interfaces aren't even close yet. They are typically crude yes / no or menu selection devices that remain dependent on computer displays etc. There is nothing that even begins to deliver real-world-like experience.

Current VR technology doesn't use a direct brain / machine interface. Adding haptics to the current use of 3 D head-mounted displays is currently done using crude mechanics and without significant factors such as texture and warmth.

When talking about the future saying something is "impossible" is always dangerous, but 5 - 10 years is not nearly enough time from today to develop artificial sex that is realistic.

[Steve 9696]

So I had trouble with my flights to Graz and ended up in Frankfurt for the night. Report forthcoming. But the biggest surprise of all was the ATM rate at Sharks! No surcharge and great market rate. Wow. Complete surprise for a strip / FKK club.

So I posted Sharks part one in the Sharks thread. As usual, my detailed write up. Part two coming soon.

Great to be back in the FKK saddle again boys! Enjoy!

[Sirioja]

Hello everyone,

Firstly, thank you to everyone for the brilliant reports and reviews on this forum. It's definitely made it a well of knowledge for those of us who're less familiar or new to the scene.

I'm going to be in the region in October and will be making a special detour to Frankfurt for my first and probably only experience of the FKK scene ever!

However, I only have 1 night! Try as I may, I won't get more than the 1 night in Frankfurt. So I really to make the visit worth it and while I've done a bit of research here, I still thought I'the ask all of you for any advice that might tip the scales in terms of clubs or travel arrangement.

In terms of club, I've pretty much settle on either Sharks or Oase as everything I've read here points to those beings the biggest in terms of size and LU. I doubt I could make both in the same night so given that.

Prettier faces at Oase. Depend on your day visit? Better from Wednesday to Saturday. Sunday and Monday can also be OK at Sharks. Sharks should be easier to start. Bus from airport to Darmstadt.

[Steve 9696]

So I had trouble with my flights to Graz and ended up in Frankfurt for the night. Report forthcoming. But the biggest surprise of all was the ATM rate at Sharks! No surcharge and great market rate. Wow. Complete surprise for a strip / FKK club.

[Bfsie]

Thank you.

Do you pay by the hour? Around here, the usual practice is to pay per meet, or even per week or per month if the deal becomes a long term arrangement. As Steve said, it could be a couple of hours or 3 or 4 hours, depending on mutual availability, mutual schedules and level of interest. That said, it is very rare for any meet to end in less than 2 hours in my experience.

In Germany the sugarbabies are also paid per meet like in America. By using my tactics and strategy, all of my meetings were no more than one hour, so the prices in my previous post are the prices per meet and some of my meetings lasted 30 minutes with total cost of 80 euro.

I don't know the sugarbaby scene in America since I retired in my very early 40's more than 15 years ago as a successful bond trader in one of the major wall-street financial firms in New York and moved from New York to Europe to pursue this hobby (well, for me it is addiction LOL).

But I think that the tactics and strategy should be similar everywhere whether it is America or Europe. Unfortunately in this sugarbaby business you have to harmlessly lie. For example, you can say to a local sugar baby that I am a married man and only have time during lunch break, so I can do maximum one hour during lunch break and pay you $200 (or whatever). Vast majority (if not most) of the local sugar babies will do it from my experience because FUNDAMENTALLY they were already open to prostitution mentally and $200 is good money for any girl for one fuck. If she were a non-working girl, she would have to work her ass off for at least 2 days to earn $200. One condition though: you have to be doable in her eyes and with some sophistication. I am pretty sure that you and Steve are presentable and sophisticated since you guys represent your companies and travel around world for your company business.