German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[BigBuddy69]

Excuse me but what is GFC?

[Member #4581]

It's worth clarifying if the stock has split. A stock that is 25% the value it used to be is worth the same to shareholders if it has split 3 times.

Sorry to prolong a discussion which probably doesn't belong in this thread, but those were not stock splits. Banks' book values and capital ratios got destroyed due to losses from GFC, and hence they had to issue new equity at much lower stock prices to shore up capital base to pass stress tests etc. So, many bank stock prices are lower now than they used to be, but market caps are a bit higher than implied by stock price. Say, stock price is 20% of where it used to be, but number of shares is 3 times higher, and hence market cap is 40% less than it was.

[Sirioja]

Average girl's profit after expenses?

Busiest girls of course, my girls, not GND hunting for business. Some can be over 20000 in Germany, before pimp of course, then sometimes no money for the girl.

[Escape Artist]

The girl knows what the prevailing rate and norms are and agrees to them at least implicitly, if not she should consider another venue or make it clear. Pretending to agree to 50 and then trying to put on conditions or upsell in the room is definitely not cool. These girls should really not be respected, after all they have agreed to the prevailing rate or led you believe that they did.

The thing is that they do comply with the club rate. The club does not specify the quality of service. By objective measures, they are doing their job. So if we are using technical measurable such as supply and demand to evaluate the girls' worth, they are also technically in compliance with their job description.

[Rogue Nation]

I think you are right in fact. Not all salaries rise with inflation and it is about supply and demand. A flood of Romanian girls arrived and that is why the rates never went up, in fact perhaps they should have fallen and did not.

When Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU in 2007 and could legally work all over the EU a massive influx of Ro / Bu girls into Germany, Spain, Austria and even Switzerland (non EU) was the result. It was a possibility to make a lot of money in the P6 industry, be it Clubs, streets, walk in houses, apartments. Prices in clubs stagnated since then. Other variations of P6 saw a price reduction, e. G. Apartments and walk in houses. In 2002 I paid 300 DM / hour for a session in an apartment. That's 153 EUR. Now in the same city I pay between 100 and 150 EUR for an hour. I am not saying that this is fair. But the girls are not employees with a regular salary increase. They are independent and self employed. It's a question of demand and supply, and when the gates opened there was and still is a huge supply of EE girls, of clubs and other P6 options.

[HungryStud101]

As an FYI, I have done 11 sessions this trip and in 3 different clubs; one in Hesse and two in the NRW. I am 11 for 11 on BBBJ. There are sharks in the water for sure and these girls are experts at the walletectomy. However, the BBBJ is alive and well in FKK land.

[BigBuddy69]

If 50 Euros is not enough for reasonable service levels, go to a higher paying venue or find another line of work.

Well said. Now there is still more supply than demand in Germany, some smaller clubs like Aplerbeck are rather empty in the week and even in the bigger clubs, some girls spend their day on a stool or on a sofa. Actually, following the laws of supply and demand, prices should go down and there would be more demand but it won't happen.

So for the greedy girls and the tipping guys, you should go to GT Vienna, Wellcum or Globe, I'm sure you'll really feel better in those clubs. I'll stick to NRW.

[Delta Indigo]

Minimum wage adjusts more-or-less according to inflation because these people in the lowest income brackets would not be able to survive otherwise. In professions above the minimum wage, workers salaries are more subject to market forces of supply and demand. In some professions, the workers might have been "overpaid" in the past. For instance, porn stars today don't come close to what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's. If they do, certainly not with the same level of ease. Streaming porn killed their industry.

German FKK girls made 50 EUR in 2002. Their "streaming porn" was the entry of Romania and Bulgaria to EU. Why should pricing increase when the supply of WGs exceeds demand? Even at 50 EUR /30 min, I see plenty of WGs sitting around. Except for the upper tenth percentile, WGs are always complaining about lack of customers, especially on non-peak days. There is 400,000 WGs in Germany, so unless all the laufhaus, apartments, and privates increase their prices in lock-step, FKK clubs will lose customers to the other flavors of P6. I am sure FKK club owners don't want to engage in that price war. But price wars are generally good for consumers, which is probably why prices have remained low.

Western European lorry "big rig" drivers have also seen wage stagnation since the newest EU countries have joined. On the German autobahns, all you see is license plates from Romania and Poland. Romanians long distance truck drivers are willing to work for 30000 lei /7500 EUR a year..

I think you are right in fact. Not all salaries rise with inflation and it is about supply and demand. A flood of Romanian girls arrived and that is why the rates never went up, in fact perhaps they should have fallen and did not.

The girl knows what the prevailing rate and norms are and agrees to them at least implicitly, if not she should consider another venue or make it clear. Pretending to agree to 50 and then trying to put on conditions or upsell in the room is definitely not cool. These girls should really not be respected, after all they have agreed to the prevailing rate or led you believe that they did.

I don't agree at all that the girls are therefore free of fault, the wages in my skill set, even though they are relatively quite high, have not risen in 2 decades in nominal terms.

This whole BBBJ thing, shows the hypocrisy of the situation, before the girls did it all inclusive with hardly any exceptions and now they see an opportunity, it has of course nothing to do with inflation. Why are rates still 50 Euros, because of the massive inflow of Romanian girls amongst others and the fact that this is by far the most lucrative option with minimal education for the vast majority, in fact they are paid more than their peers in educated skilled white collar professions a lot of the time.

I have had a few girls agree to BBBJ pre law and then try to renege on the deal in the room, this was very rare but happens, obviously the girl is trying to trick you into a session. Are they helpless victims and have been forced into this profession? Certainly not, they are taking you for a ride and trying to cheat you.

If 50 Euros is not enough for reasonable service levels, go to a higher paying venue or find another line of work.

[The Cane]

Do you deserve a lower wage for wasting money on hookers? Again, what does someone's spending habits have to do with their wage?

Once again, you say you're not arguing for higher rates, but then the majority of what you write points directly towards that proposition. The desire to have sex is a natural condition of the human experience. This is how I choose to sate that need. I choose this method over "wasting" money in the way that society tried to brainwash me into doing, but has failed to do. That would be spending it all on one woman who I must date and woo, put an expensive rock on her finger, purchase an expensive home with a mortgage, buy two cars with car payments, put some babies in her that I must then clothe and feed and provide lunch money to plus save for college tuition, then pay the woman even more money in the form of alimony and child support payments when the marriage ends. I choose another approach, and I practice what I preach. Which is that I make sure my bills are paid and my investments made before I get laid! If I could not afford to monger, then I would not do it. More than can be said for these girls who blow all of their money. And that's their problem. Not mine or anybody else's here.

[Samplerr]

That said, for whatever reason, there are a much larger number of women, (and I might add much more attractive girls) in the industry now than in 1990s.

Maybe true for the American market. Europorn in the 90's /2000's had the best crop of girls ever seen thanks to the fall or the Iron Curtain and the arrival of Hungarian and Czech girls. The quality level of girls like Nikki Anderson, Anita Blonde, Silvia Saint etc. Is a bit scarcer since piracy, and a few other factors, started to bite.

To your point on DB stock price I will point out that stock price is not a meaningful metric in this situation because so many banks got diluted materially. Post the financial crisis, they had to issue huge amounts of new equity or converts etc.

The market cap of Deutsche Bank is not much more than half of the pre-GFC high.

https://www.db.com/ir/en/share-information.htm#tab_overview-2017-2006.

[Takedown]

your point on DB stock price I will point out that stock price is not a meaningful metric in this situation because so many banks got diluted materially. Post the financial crisis, they had to issue huge amounts of new equity or converts etc. Citi stock price is still a small fraction of what it used to be pre-2008 but it doesn't mean the company value is that much less because the number of shares has increased massively.

It's worth clarifying if the stock has split. A stock that is 25% the value it used to be is worth the same to shareholders if it has split 3 times.

[Member #4581]

McA. Interesting that you bring up porn comps. I believe you are right. I don't know how much they made pre-2000 but it must have been better. Now, men are making a few hundred per shoot, and women are at a grand to 1500 at best if they are stars, and 3 digits if less well known or new to the industry. Several porn agencies list stars and how much they are willing to take to hire out, and some well known names are available for even $500.

I wonder how porn stars are making even that much, because so much content is totally free, and there are some ads but as a perverted male my focus is always on the girl and not the ad. Obviously there are some paid sites, but even there you get unlimited content for $8 a month. When the site has 100,000+ videos already, how much will they pay to add another video to their site?

That said, for whatever reason, there are a much larger number of women, (and I might add much more attractive girls) in the industry now than in 1990s. In 1980s and 1990s it was always a hundred or so jaded girls. Now there are literally thousands. If pay rates have declined somehow More girls got lured in, and thats in a US economy which has been generally OK. Perhaps the rising income disparity, and low end workers being stagnated explains this. Also, in 1990s porn stars didn't escort out as much, at least not openly and publicly. Now, practically every single porn star is available for escorting for 1000 to 1500, I.e. whatever she makes on a video shoot.


To your point on DB stock price I will point out that stock price is not a meaningful metric in this situation because so many banks got diluted materially. Post the financial crisis, they had to issue huge amounts of new equity or converts etc. Citi stock price is still a small fraction of what it used to be pre-2008 but it doesn't mean the company value is that much less because the number of shares has increased massively.

[Takedown]

Finally McA!

Most well thought out response yet. One other poster also cited the laws of supply and demand, Rogue Nation perhaps? Simple economics does explain why prices remain low. In this case, for a profession earning above the minimum wage. More Romanians, more supply, prices low. Got it.

So from an economics side, we understand that 50 euro is the fair market value and these girls are subject to their value. Now for those whom economics is the end all, be all, discussion is closed and there's no need to read any further.

For the human discussion of villainizing these girls as cheats, well the question remains, the cost of living has increased so the girls are trying to keep up with that. With Ro joining the EU many girls are living in Germany and participating in German society, paying German prices to live. How does that factor into your opinion of the girls as money-hungry cheats? Again, the prices are set and I'm not advocating for an increase at all. But would you admit that due to substantial increases in cost of living, these girls' profit margins are reduced as compared to 18 years ago?

Minimum wage adjusts more-or-less according to inflation because these people in the lowest income brackets would not be able to survive otherwise. In professions above the minimum wage, workers salaries are more subject to market forces of supply and demand. In some professions, the workers might have been "overpaid" in the past. For instance, porn stars today don't come close to what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's. If they do, certainly not with the same level of ease. Streaming porn killed their industry.

German FKK girls made 50 EUR in 2002. Their "streaming porn" was the entry of Romania and Bulgaria to EU. Why should pricing increase when the supply of WGs exceeds demand? Even at 50 EUR /30 min, I see plenty of WGs sitting around. Except for the upper tenth percentile, WGs are always complaining about lack of customers, especially on non-peak days..

[Mr Ho]

Let them make their money, so it will allure other stunners girls to join our world of mongering.

Bigger the incentives, better the line up will be.

More money, more honey and younger / beauty the better LOL!

[McAdonis]

But isn't it safe to say that the pay for most entry level jobs are higher than they were in 2002? Does the McDonalds cashier make a higher wage than his counterpart in 2002? Does the hamburger cost more than in 2002?

Minimum wage adjusts more-or-less according to inflation because these people in the lowest income brackets would not be able to survive otherwise. In professions above the minimum wage, workers salaries are more subject to market forces of supply and demand. In some professions, the workers might have been "overpaid" in the past. For instance, porn stars today don't come close to what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's. If they do, certainly not with the same level of ease. Streaming porn killed their industry.

German FKK girls made 50 EUR in 2002. Their "streaming porn" was the entry of Romania and Bulgaria to EU. Why should pricing increase when the supply of WGs exceeds demand? Even at 50 EUR /30 min, I see plenty of WGs sitting around. Except for the upper tenth percentile, WGs are always complaining about lack of customers, especially on non-peak days. There is 400,000 WGs in Germany, so unless all the laufhaus, apartments, and privates increase their prices in lock-step, FKK clubs will lose customers to the other flavors of P6. I am sure FKK club owners don't want to engage in that price war. But price wars are generally good for consumers, which is probably why prices have remained low.

Western European lorry "big rig" drivers have also seen wage stagnation since the newest EU countries have joined. On the German autobahns, all you see is license plates from Romania and Poland. Romanians long distance truck drivers are willing to work for 30000 lei /7500 EUR a year. In a decade or so, they will all be replaced by self-driving vehicles, which means their wages will lower to zero.

By the way, iPod cost $400 in 2001. If adjusted for inflation an iPod should cost $535 today. But the reality is the iPod Touch in 2018 costs $199.

Many stocks in Finance sector still haven't recovered from 2001 and 2008 downturns. Deutsche Bank is Germany's biggest bank by market cap. Stock price in 2002 was 50 EUR. Stock price in 2018 is 12 EUR.