German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[The Cane]

Wow from Denmark too? That is a catch. I got blonde half swedish and german once in artemis, former palace girl named Kimmi few years ago that is.

Yes, I've had one Dane in my life, and also 100% Swedish from Gothenburg, Sweden. She was at Globe in Zurich when I went. Fucked her in her attractive, blonde, Nordic butt hole too! What else? Haha! Also sucked my dick like a mad woman throwing that pretty blonde hair every which a way LOL! Another flag to my extensive collection!

[Mongerer88]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I enjoy the study of this topic, and it is very interesting to me how little the German FKK system has changed in the online world, and how little it has been harmed by technological competition.

The three cities I am most familiar with, Barcelona, Lisbon, and Madrid (although I am least familiar with Madrid), have changed significantly over the last few years, at least for a non-local. A long time ago, a visitor simply got a physical address and went to a relatively big brothel. Those were the only reviews on ISG. Even when a person found a local review site, to the extent he could translate it back then, the local reviews were oriented toward those well-known brothels.

Today, there are incredibly detailed online advertising sites with detailed pictures and videos in those cities. Girls advertise very specific services including details regarding BBBJ, CIM, Greek, BDSM, and there are now a lot of reviews of independents and escort ladies advertising on those sites. Those reviews appear in abundance on ISG and even more so on the four local language review boards for those three cities. There are fewer brothel reviews on those four review sites, and the brothels that are reviewed tend to be smaller ones with 10 of fewer ladies that have upped their web presence with pictures and details of service offerings. A foreigner can simply access a completely different, and in my opinion better, market in those cities than he could even five years ago, and if he reads reviews, he should rarely be disappointed.

Apparently, there is an appeal to FKKs that defeats the move to more online shopping that one can see in other parts of Europe. I don't have any true evidence of this, and Baltix noted that there is some online sex shopping in Germany. But at least based on the preponderance of FKK reports on ISG compared to a reports for Independents or agencies in Germany.

Hopefully, the CBJ rule will be ignored at the FKKs and German brothels. If not, I can't help but wonder if that might cause a change in demand toward independents with reviews if a guy want to continue utilizing the German market.

[Mr Ho]

I can confirm both of your statements. Although, I will forever remember my one foray into the Amsterdam red light scene since the girl I fucked looked like a very young, blonde Zsa Zsa Gabor! Said she was from Denmark, so I add that flag to my collection hehehe.

Wow from Denmark too? That is a catch. The best I get in Germany is German or czech and Hungarian LOL.

I got blonde half swedish and german once in artemis, former palace girl named Kimmi few years ago that is. She is gone and I am still keeping my eyes out for her, but I guess she quit the industry for good. If you know where she is about anyone, please do let me know.

This Kimmi is blonde one, not the black Kimmi that is at artemis now LOL I do not have thing for black women though I do like half white and half black now and then when I find real beauty one which is like every 4 years, bit like Olympic LOL.

[Member #4581]

"Market cap is irrelevant. ".

Who can argue with such pearls of widsom?!

"Apple has a very high market cap also, but most of that is cash laying around".

Apple has a market cap of $740 BN, and its gross and net cash (net of debt) are $235 BN and $160 BN. That is, 22% of market cap is net cash. Not *most* - unless the word most has a different meaning in some parts of the world.

Anyhow, it is a strange argument to make that market cap is irrelevant because a company has lot of cash. I hope this is not how accounting and finance are taught wherever you live.

"Retailers on the other hand has a higher turnover".

Did anyone dispute this? Whats the relevance of this to what we discussing (shift of business from offline to online, and if the sex industry will also follow that model)?

In any case, if profit is not an objective, any idiot can create a huge turnover. Sears still has nearly $22Bn in revenue annually. It's market cap is less than a billion and half. Pretty soon, it may go bankrupt.

"With insane salaries none others anywhere in the world can compete with. Just look at tesla. ".

Is someone jealous:0-) When a company has good business, good prospects, and investors like it, it is able to pay its people. I am always happy to see people get rewarded. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.

[Pistons]

Market cap is irrelevant. Apple has a very high market cap also, but most of that is cash laying around gathering dust in a swizz bank account. Retailers on the other hand has a higher turnover. Not to mention all the other reasons market cap is irrelevant... like marketing, cash from investment banks, private equity funds, quantitative easing etc... the silicon valley it bubble is more politics than turnover these days. With insane salaries none others anywhere in the world can compete with. Just look at tesla.

Then again, SF has long been seen as the most liberal american city. Maybe alongside Seattle.

[Solo Traveler]

Guys,
Who live in countries like sex prisons.
What do you do when you're now on a sex vacation?
Do you still have paid sex once in awhile, or practice abstinence?
I think I am living a life like a catholic priest with total abstinence recently. Good thing is that I save money pretty fast that I can soon arrange another sex vacation abroad. LOL.

Should be "What do you do when you're *NOT* on a sex vacation?

Not sure how much abstinence is being practiced by a Catholic priest either.
In the US, strip clubs are quite legal but other than giving blue balls and robbing you of hundreds of dollars in an hour or two, they provide very little relief. There is sex for sale in some of those strip clubs but again skirting the edge of legality.

A Catholic priest, by theory, practice total abstinence that they are not allowed to marry, have a relationship, have sex, or even masturbate.

And basically this is a lifestyle I'm living.

Not because I'm religious or something, just because I don't see a point to engage myself in any other activities other than having sex vacations abroad. LOL.

In my country, the cheapest paid sex I can access costs me around 45 Euros, and that's just for a quick suck and fuck under 15 minutes.

After I visited NRW clubs, now I just think, "Why don't I save all these money and use it in a more effective and enjoyable way?" Each 45 Euros I save means one more entry, or one more 30-minute sex in German FKK Sauna clubs. Far better than what I can get in my country.

And, yes, I can relate to you guys in the US.

One guy living in the Los Angeles told me that the only access he can get there is some mediocre escort in-calls, but even the cheapest option costs him 200-300 USD for an hour.

He said he use that service once a week. So, that's 800-1200 USD for 4 one-hour sessions in a month.

1200 USD equals to 1130 EUR, and that's approximately 11 one-hour sessions in a Hesse club.

4 VS 11.

I guess guys living in Western Europe can never imagine what it's like to live in a sex prison.

The reduced downtime that a sex worker has waiting for customers at a fixed facility goes away, so she does not necessarily feel the need to be compensated for the downtime through a higher price while doing sex. And the technology needed to achieve the greater efficiency is not particularly expensive.

I think it works in Germany because of the unique combination of less prosperous Eastern European women who do not place the same value on "down time" as the ladies in wealthier countries, and the influx of short-time business and convention travelers.
I just see the "online" system being more sustainable in the next many years than the brick and mortar model.

Theoretically, you've got a point.

But, in reality, a girl who work in FKK Sauna clubs charges 100 Euros max for an hour, while a girl who work independently or for an escort agency charges a lot more than that.

Let alone the price, many other factors which the clubs provide (food, facilities, the access to check out all women's bodies and faces in close distance, etc) cannot be replaced by the "online system".

I always draw an analogy between sex and food.

"Online system", incall, or outcall, are like ordering food by the Internet or phone, while "Clubs system", on the other hand, is like walking into a restaurant with buffet setups.

[Member #4581]

Amazon has a current market capitalization of nearly 420 billion dollars, which exceeds the combined market cap of Walmart, Target, Costco, Carrefour, Metro and Tesco, and still has room to spare. Not by revenues but by market cap. Markets are volatile and can often be wrong but it shows what investors think about the futures of these various business models and their prospects going forward.

That said, as Craiova said, there are several tangible and intangible advantages of an FKK which could never be replicated online. Most important for me are the hundred plus roaming naked girls that I can ogle all day, to get excited and ready for the next session. Over time, I have migrated almost all my shopping online, starting with books and electronics to now clothes, shoes, food and most other things. But I can't see myself preferring single encounters via internet vs multiple day FKK tours. Not to mention, in the foreseeable future, US will remain as repressed as ever in sexual matters and legal regulations, and fkk's legality and safety are strong attractions.

[Mongerer88]

It doesn't happen more than perhaps once a year. But I agree with Craiova here. And the three most important key words are 'safety', 'safety', 'safety'. Internet ads are almost like street tutes... actually where I live, some of the street tutes have internet ads also...

In most of the markets I participate in, or know about from friends, I find the opposite to be true. The independent escorts in the 150 - 200 euro an hour range who advertise specific services with their own ads (or their agency ads) and who have reviews on various review boards are a massive step-up from the street scene. Usually college students who take their jobs seriously and often offer BBBJ and other delights at a fixed price. I just can't envision any of them working all day at an FKK or a brothel where they have to be there for many consecutive hours waiting for customers. My point was that online shopping has opened up the market for these ladies, who most definitely would not walk the streets.

[Pistons]

It doesn't happen more than perhaps once a year. But I agree with Craiova here. And the three most important key words are 'safety', 'safety', 'safety'. Internet ads are almost like street tutes actually where I live, some of the street tutes have internet ads also.

[Member #4581]

Guys,

Who live in countries like sex prisons.

What do you do when you're now on a sex vacation?

Do you still have paid sex once in awhile, or practice abstinence?

I think I am living a life like a catholic priest with total abstinence recently. Good thing is that I save money pretty fast that I can soon arrange another sex vacation abroad. LOL.

Not sure how much abstinence is being practiced by a Catholic priest either. I think for those who live in one of the Western European countries, some sort of legal paid sex is relatively easy to access and within short reach; it is available in NA and other places as well, but the legality of it is less clear. Our Japanese friend has talked about mongering in Japan for example. But FKK is very addictive and once you experience it, keeps drawing you in like a siren; frequency of visits keeps increasing for many. Easier for unmarried and unattached folks ofc. Married guys have to explain why they keep disappearing for weeks and why the bank account is suddenly 5000 short. Lol.

In the US, strip clubs are quite legal but other than giving blue balls and robbing you of hundreds of dollars in an hour or two, they provide very little relief. There is sex for sale in some of those strip clubs but again skirting the edge of legality.

Some mongers here have GFs in real life. And of course, there is iPad+wifi+left hand; masters of own domain. Lol

[Craiova]

Some reason for German FKK club system. Over many years a standard service, you don't need negotiate prices. WYSIWYG, large choice for both sides, also the combination of sex with wellness and food, you're surrounded with young naked girls for hours, you can watch them all the time. And very very important is the safty for both sides. I always feel comfortable in clubs, that isn't the case in many other P6 areas. Also for the girls the clubs are a very safe place. Most crime to WGs in P6 happen on escorts, street hockers or at an apartment.

So internet can't replace the club system on a market principle only by regulations or prohibition.

[BaltiX]

I am not trying to fight with people. I am not an FKK guy, but I like everyone to get what they want.

In the very long run, I just can't see the FKK system making it. They have to be large to eliminate the inefficiencies that come from the down time. A lady needs to fuck a lot of guys to make it worthwhile to invest the whole day selling tail. And large operations invite a lot of scrutiny and regulation from those who oppose this activity.

I think it works in Germany because of the unique combination of less prosperous Eastern European women who do not place the same value on "down time" as the ladies in wealthier countries, and the influx of short-time business and convention travelers. There is an abundance of hot 18-30 year old women in most western nations who will take out an anonymous ad, book via cell phone / email, and make damn good money doing this a couple of hours a day for a few days a week. And most of those western women would not go to a fixed-location brothel every day hoping to get customers. She sets her own rules for things like BBBJ/CIM and she is damn hard for a government to catch and regulate. Wouldn't most sex workers prefer that?

I just see the "online" system being more sustainable in the next many years than the brick and mortar model. But I could be wrong. Of course as a customer, there is a greater element of unknown that is only alleviated by accurate reviews.

Isn't Kaufmich popular in Germany?

[Mongerer88]

Some things should be brick and mortar. Like seeing the girl, and number of girls on site to decide on. Images are not a whole representation, may not match or differ from expectations, so seeing and talking to the girl before hand can't be beat. For optics, but for service, reviews can work.

I was referring to more goods related transactions, although p6 is good. 😁.

I am not trying to fight with people. I am not an FKK guy, but I like everyone to get what they want.

In the very long run, I just can't see the FKK system making it. They have to be large to eliminate the inefficiencies that come from the down time. A lady needs to fuck a lot of guys to make it worthwhile to invest the whole day selling tail. And large operations invite a lot of scrutiny and regulation from those who oppose this activity.

I think it works in Germany because of the unique combination of less prosperous Eastern European women who do not place the same value on "down time" as the ladies in wealthier countries, and the influx of short-time business and convention travelers. There is an abundance of hot 18-30 year old women in most western nations who will take out an anonymous ad, book via cell phone / email, and make damn good money doing this a couple of hours a day for a few days a week. And most of those western women would not go to a fixed-location brothel every day hoping to get customers. She sets her own rules for things like BBBJ/CIM and she is damn hard for a government to catch and regulate. Wouldn't most sex workers prefer that?

I just see the "online" system being more sustainable in the next many years than the brick and mortar model. But I could be wrong. Of course as a customer, there is a greater element of unknown that is only alleviated by accurate reviews.

[PussyLiccker]

Some things should be brick and mortar. Like seeing the girl, and number of girls on site to decide on. Images are not a whole representation, may not match or differ from expectations, so seeing and talking to the girl before hand can't be beat. For optics, but for service, reviews can work.

I was referring to more goods related transactions, although p6 is good. 😁.

[Mongerer88]

Market is now going toward online business. Amazon is prime example of that. There are new ideas they come up with and put into practice for convenience sake for the business and the consumer.

I know we all have stereotypes of German efficiency, but really the capitalistic American ventures pushes for efficient business practices.

Damn interesting point. Not sure if you were referring to true retail business, or commercial sex, or both.

Germany, with the limited exception of Berlin, is about last bastion of the large shopping mall, brick-and-mortar model of purchasing sex. Obviously a lot of guys prefer that, which is fine with me.

But if you look at the rest of the western world, the trend is clearly toward online advertisements and transactions for sex. Sometimes it is the ladies advertising and booking by themselves, and sometimes they work for an agency that handles the administrative tasks for them. Even when incall is a necessity, the trend is toward the making of an appointment with a specific lady at a specific time. So the incall facilities are smaller and shared more efficiently.

The Internet and cell phones and the ability to translate languages efficiently on email and whatsapp make things possible that were not achievable a few years ago. Not only with respect to communications, but online maps make it easy for them to find each other for the actual transaction, The reduced downtime that a sex worker has waiting for customers at a fixed facility goes away, so she does not necessarily feel the need to be compensated for the downtime through a higher price while doing sex. And the technology needed to achieve the greater efficiency is not particularly expensive.

The online system makes reviews more important, since the lack of the shopping mall experience doesn't provide for a look and touch before you rent aspect to the transaction.