German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Angus Magee]

Let's not beat this into the ground too much. Kimino was making a light joking comparison to his situation as a citizen with a government who expects him to pay taxes for membership or "protection.

In fact the whole damn subject seems close to exhausted if you ask me.

Let's move on.

AM

[Yakob]

No, I was actually talking about our government and taxes. I don't have a boss, or everybody is my boss, it's just a point of view.

But don't want to make a fuss about it. Found your reply a wee bit provoking and just fooled back.

Cheers.

Kimino

That was what I thought you said. This is why I reiterated your point about 52% of your income being taken at source implying the government takes this from taxes. But since you do not have a boss, this is not quite correct, so if you are self employed or own your own business then you pay tax on account with a final tally when you file a tax return. I am only guessing this.

I was saying something different. If you were saying what I was saying then like I says it was too subtle for me. My point was that all this pimping, coercion, extortion, or whatever is going on in the clubs, but the advice that some girls gave is that better to not think too much about it and enjoy it for what it is.

You are being provoking too if I am honest so this is why I replied too.

[Kimino]

As far and I could work out you were saying that you were pimped too in your own way since you had 52% of your income taken at source and no compensation for the learnings and your work conditions are shit since you have to allow anal for no extra money.

I thought you were just saying your boss is a pimp too and so you are like the girls getting fucked.

No, I was actually talking about our government and taxes. I don't have a boss, or everybody is my boss, it's just a point of view.

But don't want to make a fuss about it. Found your reply a wee bit provoking and just fooled back.

Cheers.

Kimino

[Yakob]

And which is the part you didn't understand?

Kimino

As far and I could work out you were saying that you were pimped too in your own way since you had 52% of your income taken at source and no compensation for the learnings and your work conditions are shit since you have to allow anal for no extra money.

I thought you were just saying your boss is a pimp too and so you are like the girls getting fucked.

You did not say what I said is to take the the clubs for what they were and try not to dwell too much on the dark side but this is not what I think. I am only relating what a few of the girls I know say to me when the topic of the pimps come up.

If you were saying that then it was too subtle for me. I am sorry.

[Kimino]

As a few girls have said to me when asked, including Szyzgies's Lavinina / Anna at Oase, the girls at World in the gang of Simona, the other girls at Oase and Mainhattan girls in the gang of the German girls, that it is better for the monger to take the clubs for what it is.

And which is the part you didn't understand?

Kimino

[Dreams]

Silly.

With all due respect you do seem on some kind of crusade here even though you claim not. I must admit though I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what you are crudsading against.

AM

Mr K, you claim you are not preaching, but at the same time you say such things as that you want dumb ISG members to know the dark truth, and so on. What for? What will this change? You tourself claim that you don't wnat to down this business, that you like it yourself too much etc.

So all this for what? To oncrease your posr's count?

My point is not to argue with your arguments, I guess most of us know about those, but WHY are you pushing this so much? And why on this thread?

Oh, BTW, I am not a native English speaker. Not sure what this has to do with the FKK thread, but since you brought this silly, overused argument in your debate with HB, I am bveing a bit sarcastic here.

HB: I feel sorry that you let yourself dragged into this argument.

I always liked, and still do, of course, your very factual. 2-3 liners answers to all FKK related questions.

If I had an advice to give, (but who am I do to so.) it would be to let mr K continuing his preaching unasnwered.

That is what I will do for now.

[Yakob]

I get some kind of weak protection but we have to pay on average 52% to the gang. But that's not for some months or years, it's for life. Nobody comes to fetch me in a luxurious car when I finish working and can't upsell anal because it's supposed to be included. If I don't pay, my house can be taken away from me and I could even get in jail. Knowing 3 languages (for which the learning cost was deducted by the remaining 48%) and being able to do my paperwork didn't help.

To live, I sell my body. Invested in my brain so I'm hiring that, but maybe selling other parts could have been more lucrative. Who knows.

Not Disneyland.

Kimino

Kimino,

Very good way to show the reversal of fortune for the wage slave. Maybe these girls never had it so good to making the money on their backs instead of sitting for 12 hour day in front of a glowing screen. I mean running around naked all day in a luxurious club sounds rather better than wearing a stuffy suit and tie in a windowless air conditioned box in the inner city where one has less space than a man in the prison cell.

As a few girls have said to me when asked, including Szyzgies's Lavinina / Anna at Oase, the girls at World in the gang of Simona, the other girls at Oase and Mainhattan girls in the gang of the German girls, that it is better for the monger to take the clubs for what it is. We come here to enjoys the sex and pay for it and then we go home to our loved ones and forget (or remember for that matter). This is no our world and we should not interfere in it is what these girls say to me. If the girl is silly enough to get herself pimped then that is her life. Even if she is forced into it with threats to the family then that is a problem, but it not our problem. In time these girls will work it off, maybe 2 or 4 years then they can work for themselves when they are older and have less money making potential. But even as you say Kimino then that is life. We also lose so many years of our life working for pittance from the man and then maybe at a certain stage we brak the window and earn the good money and it is those good money making years that one is in now who can afford all the things that he wants and enjoys and that makes all those years studying and denying one self to get to the top so worth while.

The girls that are pimped may at times ask for 20, 000 euro to 40, 000 euro from you to pay the Abstangeld to their pimp when they find out you have the money but you must decline them. You can really agonise over the decision especially when you like girl, you know her for some time and she constantly rings you or emails you to help. It is their situation and we are not the police. Maybe they are fooling you, maybe not. I get told to leave it alone.

Why cannot you upsell anal? Is it to widen your circle of friends?

Thank you for bringing up your point of view and reminding us that that the disneyland is open.

[Indi Companion]

Oh, believe me there are incentives for the girls that no work of their own volition to work for the money and do a good job to make their boss happy. This entails a threat to their family or their own exposure. Some girls really believe this and some claim that members of their family have been injured when they have no come up with the goods. No point in injuring the girl since she is the money maker.

Brother Yakob, as usual you are correct and straight to the point.

One of my most recent ex wifes was exactly in such situation. She paid in 2, 5 years 183K to the organization running her under such threats.

Once she repaid what she had to pay, in order to work "freely" she still had to pay a monthly fee of 2000 euro.

She worked 3 months like that, made the little money she needed to do and went back home to finally have a real free life. That's all. And I say it because I am still in regular contact with her even if she retired since almost one year, know where she lives and for which company she works now. No reason for bullshit here.

But I still see that many members here still believe in fairy tales, so no need to explain anything to people who do not want to listen.

[Indi Companion]

There are many extremes in the Sex Business from women who are earning very good money as sex workers to those poor wretches that are handing over more or less every cent to pimps and / or gangs. Of course most women fall in between these two extremes. The worst extremes are probably more prevalent at the bottom end of the market but examples of this can be found even in the environment of the bigger FKK / Sauna Clubs. Some of the girls working in the FKK/Sauna Clubs are given a target by their "manager". This target may be €30 or €40K per annum (to be paid on say a weekly or monthly basis) and any amount above this target they can keep. I think that it is pointless arguing about the percentage of women who fall into the more extreme categories. But it is enough to know that this type of treatment can and does happen. It is also important to be aware that organised crime is involved in this business. FKK World is very much implicated. You can very often see the Romanian Pimps sitting around the club on a Saturday Night drinking their €120 bottles of Jack Daniels giving their orders to the girls. The place is full of Bikers and is reputedly owned by a Biker Organisation. At the end of the night you can see many Albanian and Romanian males collect their women from the club. Are they husbands, brothers, boyfriends, cousins, friends or pimps. Who knows? But you could not wish to meet a more unsavoury looking bunch of characters. Will I go back to FKK World. Hell yes! I like the club and the girls and I get a kick listening into the conversations of these Romanian Pimps. Same type of thing goes on in other FKK / Sauna clubs, just maybe not as obvious. When we were children we all believed in Father Christmas and Disneyland but we all had to grow up and understand the truth. It is not necessarily nice to lear bad things about a hobby that we love but we also have to learn the truth about the sex business. FKK / Sauna clubs are not Disneyland but they are still fun places to visit. Just be more aware of what might be going on. Not all the girls are working for themselves. Many are paying over some money from their earnings to groups and individuals. Some are handing over most of their cash. So maybe next time when a girl is trying hard to upsell in the room, please remember that the money that she gets to keep may be the amount that she succeeds in upselling to you and that she may be handing over the bulk of the money earned for a standard half hour. This is by no means always the case but sometimes it is the sad fact.

Ah I missed the best part of one of my favorite issues, damn work!

Kommodore, you are absolutely right as well as Yakob (but with him we agreed already on this in the past).

It is all true, and this comes from my direct experience with many girls.

You can call it slavery or not. I am a civilized person and come from a so called civilized country. However, I have been well educated by my family at least. I have been teached to call slavery any kind of limitation of the basic freedom of an individual. Slavery is for me when you cannot make 100% of the choices regarding directly your life. Therefore, in my opinion there is a lot of slavery going on in the world of German prostitution.

Still about involvements. C'mon, do you really think the racist policy at GT is only due to what the girls prefer or not?

Most of the girls pimped in GT are all under the umbrella of the Bikers organization. They do not want any potential influence of any different gang and therefore the club itself found a compromise with them enforcing very strictly an already existing door policy. This has been confirmed to me by most of the regular girls working in GT and that I know since many years. Believe it or not, it is not my problem.

And this is only an example of how deep is the involvement in this business. I know for certain that Bikers are shareholders of at least 5 major clubs.

Turkish gangs are shareholders of at least 3 major clubs.

Do you tink girls can work all on their own free wil there?

You guys really maybe also believe that Elvis is still alive if you do not see what the situation about prostitution in Germany is!

Kommodore, keep going on your way and do not bother what they tell you.

[The Cane]

Look in this world there is no wrong and there is no right. But don't continue to preach about morals when the world that you seek to inhabit is indeed a very sordid place indeed.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. And, it appears to me that the only one here "preaching" about anything is you. I too will continue to go to the FKKs. Anyplace where I can get my dick sucked and fuck pretty girls in the ass.

[Kimino]

I get some kind of weak protection but we have to pay on average 52% to the gang. But that's not for some months or years, it's for life. Nobody comes to fetch me in a luxurious car when I finish working and can't upsell anal because it's supposed to be included. If I don't pay, my house can be taken away from me and I could even get in jail. Knowing 3 languages (for which the learning cost was deducted by the remaining 48%) and being able to do my paperwork didn't help.

To live, I sell my body. Invested in my brain so I'm hiring that, but maybe selling other parts could have been more lucrative. Who knows.

Not Disneyland.

Kimino

[Kommodore]

Oh, believe me there are incentives for the girls that no work of their own volition to work for the money and do a good job to make their boss happy. This entails a threat to their family or their own exposure. Some girls really believe this and some claim that members of their family have been injured when they have no come up with the goods. No point in injuring the girl since she is the money maker.

I have heard similar information from women I have gotten to know who work in the sex industry. The women tended to come from Romania / Bulgaria.

[Kommodore]

Those who throw around accusations of racism about clubs with door policies might also do well to remember that the clubs owners / management might also have unseen concerns that fuel such policies. You know what they say about walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

Two wrongs don't make anything right.

Look in this world there is no wrong and there is no right. The tentacles of organised crime are involved in all areas of the sex business and contribute to the door policy in GoldenTime. If you insist on having morals about the sex business, there are far worse things going on in this world besides whether or not the Black or the Arab or the Turk can gain admittance to GT. If you want to be morally correct, stay away from the sex business period. Otherwise just go to one of the many, many clubs that allow entry to every race. But don't continue to preach about morals when the world that you seek to inhabit is indeed a very sordid place indeed. I will continue to visit GoldenTime, just as I will continue to visit other FKK / Sauna Clubs. My moral compass about all these matters died at the door of a Sauna Club many many years ago.

[Yakob]

And I doubt that anyone are conned and forced to work at these clubs, because there is simply too tough competition inside the club."Slaves" would lack determination, and would be outcompeted by those other girls who were there by their own free will.

Oh, believe me there are incentives for the girls that no work of their own volition to work for the money and do a good job to make their boss happy. This entails a threat to their family or their own exposure. Some girls really believe this and some claim that members of their family have been injured when they have no come up with the goods. No point in injuring the girl since she is the money maker.

Another blonde Russian girl say me that she work for 3 years and no seen a single euro of what she earned until finally she tell her Biker boyfriend to fuck off or she go police and now she earn the money. Nowadays lshe earnt to hustle the clients as a free working girl since she know no other way to work for this good money.

I inquire and say this to some girls at Oase and World and they tell me it is better for the mongers to no ask too much question and enjoy the club for what it is. This is no our world and it is all I can do. Then she usually go back to sucking my cock.

[Kommodore]

Slavery is definately not the word I would use about FKK girls.

And I doubt that anyone are conned and forced to work at these clubs, because there is simply too tough competition inside the club."Slaves" would lack determination, and would be outcompeted by those other girls who were there by their own free will.

There are many extremes in the Sex Business from women who are earning very good money as sex workers to those poor wretches that are handing over more or less every cent to pimps and / or gangs. Of course most women fall in between these two extremes. The worst extremes are probably more prevalent at the bottom end of the market but examples of this can be found even in the environment of the bigger FKK / Sauna Clubs. Some of the girls working in the FKK/Sauna Clubs are given a target by their "manager". This target may be €30 or €40K per annum (to be paid on say a weekly or monthly basis) and any amount above this target they can keep. I think that it is pointless arguing about the percentage of women who fall into the more extreme categories. But it is enough to know that this type of treatment can and does happen. It is also important to be aware that organised crime is involved in this business. FKK World is very much implicated. You can very often see the Romanian Pimps sitting around the club on a Saturday Night drinking their €120 bottles of Jack Daniels giving their orders to the girls. The place is full of Bikers and is reputedly owned by a Biker Organisation. At the end of the night you can see many Albanian and Romanian males collect their women from the club. Are they husbands, brothers, boyfriends, cousins, friends or pimps. Who knows? But you could not wish to meet a more unsavoury looking bunch of characters. Will I go back to FKK World. Hell yes! I like the club and the girls and I get a kick listening into the conversations of these Romanian Pimps. Same type of thing goes on in other FKK / Sauna clubs, just maybe not as obvious. When we were children we all believed in Father Christmas and Disneyland but we all had to grow up and understand the truth. It is not necessarily nice to lear bad things about a hobby that we love but we also have to learn the truth about the sex business. FKK / Sauna clubs are not Disneyland but they are still fun places to visit. Just be more aware of what might be going on. Not all the girls are working for themselves. Many are paying over some money from their earnings to groups and individuals. Some are handing over most of their cash. So maybe next time when a girl is trying hard to upsell in the room, please remember that the money that she gets to keep may be the amount that she succeeds in upselling to you and that she may be handing over the bulk of the money earned for a standard half hour. This is by no means always the case but sometimes it is the sad fact.