German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Indi Companion]

Wow, so many experts on prostitution, pimps and trafficking in Germany.

HB

C'mon HB for once take off the mask of the German supremacy of the one who everything knows better and tell us your experiences, I am sure your being always so hard comes from first hand experience. There are for sure girls you know very well who were in this kind of situation and for whom you had a weakness. I am sure you could share with us a lot of stories. Isn't it right?

Or do you affirm that what I wrote is not corresponding to what is the usual reality of girls working in German clubs? I am not doing any moral lesson, I go to clubs and I am happy they exist and that there are girls working there and providing what I am looking for. I simply wpuld like to express my thinking about the fact that simply turning your head to an other side does not make anything disappear, or maybe does for these who have to sedate their coscience when they get home to their families.

[Hessen Bub]

Wow, so many experts on prostitution, pimps and trafficking in Germany.

HB

[Indi Companion]

I agree. Except there are some girls who also look for the wrong thing in the wrong place. One needs to be very wary when a girl starts going beyond "I like you" to "I miss you". If she is working out her emotional issues whilst working at a club she can be very dangerous

That happened to me a few times yet, in such cases the situation can become dangerous but unfortunately more for the girls than for the man. The mongers, if at least a bit experienced will be able to manage the situation and understand if the girl is simply playing an old trick or not. On the other hand, the girl could simply remember of being a human being and give her trust to someone who will take advantage of that.

[Indi Companion]

It could be that pimps are not always the brightest bulbs on the tree I. E. They are dim witted. I mean controlling women to that extent might take a certain type of intelligence but in the long run they probably go for what is easy for them.

AM

I will not get into a long technical report about how pimps are controlling the girls and the scene in the various clubs in Germany.

I will only and very briefly summarize what is a matter of fact grounded on various and different reports given openly bi girls who became in the years good friends of mine and opened up about the topic of pimps.

First of all there are various gangs running pimp operations overall the German territory.

The most powerful and making the lions' part are HA, Albanian gang, Bulgarian gang and Romanian gang. Usually Russian and Polish girls are typically run by HA.

Someone was wondering about percentage of girls who have a pimp.

Answer is easy: maybe at least 90% of the girls have a pimp, boyfriend or manager taking good care of them and of their money. That's not bullshit, whoever has been long enough in clubs know this but many will never admit.

As per these who sometimes write about girls willingly and happily being prostitutes, I just only say that they should think before speaking instead speking before thinking. That's all. Sorry but I am very sensible to this topic. I have had many favorite girls and I have met in year many great girls who were not able at all to decide nothing of their fate but only keep working until they are profitable and then being let down when tehy are no longer profitable for facing alone a life they do not have anymore.

I am not such sentimental guy, but I still have enough dignity for myself to see what is going on in the clubs that provide me the fun I want and to see who is paying the heavy toll for provinding me this fun.

Last but not least: there no clubs with more free girls than others. Girls in clubs are almost all controlled and in many different ways "forced" to work as prostitutes. Oase in not any better tha World or Palace or Golden Time or Villa Vertigo or whatever else club.

As Yakob correct.

Y pointed out, girls are simply "ordered" where they can or they have to work. That's all. Why in a club instead an other is question of business. Pimp organizations try to cover all territory and all clubs, in certain clubs are prevailing certain gangs and therefore the girls of these latter cannot work there. That's all.

And do not make me talk about metods used to convince the girls. I have been all my life around in the EE countries, since when I was young and I have seen plenty enough to say that average people of such countries would usually prefer to almost starve instead being prostitutes, with the few exceptions of some real ninphomaniac.

That's all, if someone does not agree is free to think otherwise, I simply give was is my first hand knowledge through years of experience. Maybe I only met the very few unfortunate girls around for years.

[Optimist]

I think that most of the issues begin when people look for the wrong thing in the wrong place. But in an fkk it's only the guys that might fall in error and look for the wrong thing.

Kimino

I agree. Except there are some girls who also look for the wrong thing in the wrong place. One needs to be very wary when a girl starts going beyond "I like you" to "I miss you". If she is working out her emotional issues whilst working at a club she can be very dangerous

[Syzygies]

I also think the girls can make more money at Oase but somehow all girls cannot go work there. The response girls give that it is no so easy just like girls may want to work at Palace since the money is good and there is footfall but Palace has restrictions on who they take anyway (e. G. 21 years and over and must be able to speak German / English) but there is their own management there of the girls as well.

Interesting point about language skills. I am aware of lots of the Romanian girls with fairly limited German skills, like my own are limited. Most have okay English but not always for the latin type girls who speak Spanish typically.

A few years ago, I recall going with a latin dark skinned girl at Palace with no English, very limited German, and I had no Spanish. We could still get along okay in the language of sex of course. Maybe Palace has got more restrictive with girls since then. One would think that certain World girls with great service could make a killing at Palace if they were able to work there, giving stiff competition to the Sharky girls. However some great girls left Palace in the past because they simply did not like the other girls that worked there.

At World, my bad experience girls would not be described as sharks, but rather as merely incompetent, or not relaxed enough.

[Angus Magee]

So you would think pimps would be looking for better locations. Obviously not always the case, but I am not sure why.

It could be that pimps are not always the brightest bulbs on the tree i. e. they are dim witted. I mean controlling women to that extent might take a certain type of intelligence but in the long run they probably go for what is easy for them.

AM

[The Cane]

Girls have difficulties choosing work location as they are not easily able to get long term rental accomodation close to work, if it was known they work FKK. There are always men willing to help them, but the girls explain that they have to be very careful to accept any help from guys, in case they might find they are accidentally acquiring a pimp or someone who wants a regular tax, that they did not want.

Girls naturally wish to work where they make the most money, but this is not always totally practical. Many girls that work World would make a lot more money in Oase, where they could become superstars. Why don't they? Maybe due to pimps controlling them? Or simple practicalities of living in Giessen, and not wanting the hassles of getting to work far away without having male helpers wanting a cut. I not aware of what percentage of World girls have pimps, but it seems a difficult place to make a lot of money. So you would think pimps would be looking for better locations. Obviously not always the case, but I am not sure why.

This raises a good point. One girl told me that getting to and from work was a serious issue that she had to deal with due to the cost of transportation back and forth. She told me that girls can stay overnight at the club, for like 10 euros a night or something like that. But here's the kicker. It's like SIX girls to a room! If I recall correctly, it was "Lavinia" at Oase who was telling me this. Remember, she's very talkative and likes to relate about her problems. But I am certain that I was told it was six girls to a room. And I'm pretty sure it was Lavinia who gave me these details. Neither pimping nor prostituting are easy!

[Yakob]

Girls have difficulties choosing work location as they are not easily able to get long term rental accomodation close to work, if it was known they work FKK. There are always men willing to help them, but the girls explain that they have to be very careful to accept any help from guys, in case they might find they are accidentally acquiring a pimp or someone who wants a regular tax, that they did not want.

Girls naturally wish to work where they make the most money, but this is not always totally practical. Many girls that work World would make a lot more money in Oase, where they could become superstars. Why don't they? Maybe due to pimps controlling them? Or simple practicalities of living in Giessen, and not wanting the hassles of getting to work far away without having male helpers wanting a cut. I not aware of what percentage of World girls have pimps, but it seems a difficult place to make a lot of money. So you would think pimps would be looking for better locations. Obviously not always the case, but I am not sure why.

You are correct that choice of work location is not so easy for the girls. A lot is driven by where they can find a place to stay to sleep. In Pohlheim (World) there is only so much rental accomodation and the same in Friedsrichdorf (Oase) or Obererlenbach (Oase) before you start clocking up some mean return taxi fares everyday if you do not drive.

The taxi drivers at World at closing time will take as many girls as they can fit in their taxi and charge each girl 10 euro to do a circuit to take them home. So a normal car will maybe fit 4 girls plus the driver so that is 40€ but you tend to see the mini vans that can fit 9 girls plus driver so that is 90 euro that the taxi driver gets to do a circuit.

Then there are girls who can only work where their manager tells them to work. There may be issues that that manager has with other managers at a club so cannot have his girls work there.

Then there are the guys who offer protection from whatever that the girl thinks is out there. That is a tax of 20% of their earnings. How do the they know how much they are going to get? For some reason the guy "knows" how many guys she has fucked so knows how much that should be handed over. Same for the girls that must hand over 50% or all their money. There are guys in the clubs or girls that watch what the girls are making and report back.

I have one friend who refuses to go to World because of the heavy gang prescene and pimp prescence there. He sees it as more prevalent at World than Palace or Oase, Mainhattan or Sharks.

I also think the girls can make more money at Oase but somehow all girls cannot go work there. The response girls give that it is no so easy just like girls may want to work at Palace since the money is good and there is footfall but Palace has restrictions on who they take anyway (e. G. 21 years and over and must be able to speak German / English) but there is their own management there of the girls as well.

Thank you Atooz for bringing this issue up and pointing out the prevalence of managers, pimps and boyfriends to protect their girls and their surveillance of this forum.

[Syzygies]

I think it really stupid when a girl that has been "got to" finally pays off her Romanian "boyfriend" then picks up a local Hells Angel boyfriend. The girl says that the new boyfriend is good, strong and looks after her. Later on you can see the girl change from the free and happy girl that no push for a room, happy to chat back to the I need to make money mode. So it is also the girls that fall in error and look for the wrong thing.

I was close to a girl with a Hell's Angel BF. She was with him by choice initially, but eventually managed to leave him and run away to another country. Obviously he doesn't know where she is now.

Her reason for being with him? She initially liked him and he helped her escape from from another BF who wanted to use her at weird porno swapping parties.

Girls have difficulties choosing work location as they are not easily able to get long term rental accomodation close to work, if it was known they work FKK. There are always men willing to help them, but the girls explain that they have to be very careful to accept any help from guys, in case they might find they are accidentally acquiring a pimp or someone who wants a regular tax, that they did not want.

Girls naturally wish to work where they make the most money, but this is not always totally practical. Many girls that work World would make a lot more money in Oase, where they could become superstars. Why don't they? Maybe due to pimps controlling them? Or simple practicalities of living in Giessen, and not wanting the hassles of getting to work far away without having male helpers wanting a cut. I not aware of what percentage of World girls have pimps, but it seems a difficult place to make a lot of money. So you would think pimps would be looking for better locations. Obviously not always the case, but I am not sure why.

[Trans Atlantic]

Probably Villa Vertigo is best and to a lesser extent Planet Happy Garden but mainly in the evening. This is my experience.

Villa Vertigo is not so much a problem on a Sunday since there is the free entry for men on the Sunday if the man enter the club any of Monday to Saturday prior to that Sunday.

Take out the problem in the first place and avoid going on a Sunday, Monday or a Tuesday if this is going to be a big issue.

How do VV verify you we're there earlier during the week?

Is the lineup worth going even with the free admission?

[Yakob]

But I think the women are addicts to but in their case it is addiction to money. A girl there told me how at first she don't do cim or anal and slowly now she does it saying as the money is good.

You find that many girls work in the clubs since they have been "got to" by a bad man. Call him a boyfriend, a manager or a pimp. There are various coercive methods that are employed to get the girls to work. They have their financial targets ("abstandgeld"). For the girls that live with their boyfriend and who drops them off at the club and picks them up, the girl brings their money to them everyday. Of course there are reprimands and punishments for not making target. You see the odd bruise that the make up does not cover up. You can notice these girls more since they are branded like cows with their manager's names. It can be really interesting seeing these names and making a pattern of which managers have the mosts girls. They do spread the girls around and dictate where the girls work.

I recall one instance in a McDonalds where the girls were having a meal after finishing their shift. One of the girls receives a SMS and she looks up after reading it and says she is being moved. The next day she was gone from her club and her girlfriends did not know where she went until weeks later. She ended up in another club that she was unhappy at since she had no friends there because her manager thought she could make more money there. It is interesting when you read the reports saying she is missing from X club then later on seeing a report saying she has turned up at Y club with the background of that move.

You chat to some girls and you say,"Why don't you work at such and such club?" and the reply is that they do not have a choice and it is not so simple to just move or some other excuse. Some managers are flexible on where girls work provided that they make their instalments against financial target.

Then there are the girls that look like they work free since they drive themselves to the club or come in a taxi, they go home for visits and can go shopping and hang out with friends. The difference is that they pay a runner their money at intervals towards their financial target which the targets from what I have seen appear to be over an annual span. If they do not make target then the target is increased for the interest of not having achieved target. So you get a vicious circle where the girl can never leave the manager.

You find that the girls that did not do certain sex acts before become more and more accepting of doing the harder sex acts since it generates them the additional money to pay off the manager but also to send home to their families. This is why you get many girls trying to upsell and say that additional services can be provided. They need the money. So please do not get so upset when a girl upsells. There is may be a reason. This could be one of those reasons.

I think that most of the issues begin when people look for the wrong thing in the wrong place. But in an fkk it's only the guys that might fall in error and look for the wrong thing.

I think it really stupid when a girl that has been "got to" finally pays off her Romanian "boyfriend" then picks up a local Hells Angel boyfriend. The girl says that the new boyfriend is good, strong and looks after her. Later on you can see the girl change from the free and happy girl that no push for a room, happy to chat back to the I need to make money mode. So it is also the girls that fall in error and look for the wrong thing.

[Neutron Flux]

The other implication you make is that there are pimps reading this forum too

Well, you can bet on that. Not sure about this very international forum, but local forums, for sure. And not only that, they will often try to plant stories, positive or negative, about certain girls or places. But there is also a lot of hysteria about that. I participated in local forums quite a bit, and you can be sure, if you mention a girl or place too positively a few times, you will almost certainly be accused of being a pimp or owner of the place sooner or later. But a lot of this stuff is real also, you can easily see that because it's often performed very poorly. Also, according to local board administrators, they receive a lot of threats from pimps and "managers" if the reporting is not according to their business plans.

About Rajy69. If he's not a complete idiot, and mentioned his forum I'd at Oase, he probably has little to fear, nobody knows who he is, where he stayed etc. There are up to 400 mongers visiting Oase every day, with quite a few Asians. But actually if you are a regular monger at a certain place, things are a little bit different. It is actually common practice and well accepted on German boards to confuse a few unimportant details at your actual reports, like the day when you were at the club, the time you arrived, the order of the girls you visited, the food you ate, etc. In order not to make it not too easy to identify you. I do that too, just FYI. Many girls and "managers" do not like this open reporting about venues for various reasons and that's putting it very mildly. Remember, no matter how nice it looks, it's an underworld environment, gentlemen.

[Neutron Flux]

. I wonder if there are some parallels between this guy's research and fkk use.

You raise some good points there. I actually believe that FKKs and other brothels are way worse than porn. Using porn, so effectively staring on a screen, can by no means compare to the sensations you get from real contact with a woman so you will always have something extra going when you actually meet up. But in FKKs, not only do you get a lot of the things you get from a real life woman, you get much more. Sexual practices few women do, semi-public sex, the sensation from being in a room with up to 100 naked attractive girls trying to convince you to have sex. Could you ever get that otherwise? Yes, it certainly leads to blunting, and can have side effects like ED, for sure, but that depends very much on the individual. What to do about it? On the site you link they appear to advocate abstinence. That may work for some, but, in general, abstinence and prohibition have never worked and never will. So I guess you just have to learn to live with it.

I suppose it's probably so much easier for you guys who live there in Germany. You don't have to experience the withdrawal like those us living on another continent. You can go satisfy your cravings whenever you need to. Then again, maybe I'm lucky I don't live there, which puts a natural cap on my number of fkk visits.

Oh, I can't hear that anymore. Yes, we are so lucky in Germany, we can go to the FKK club anytime, we don't have to work, we don't have social obligations, we don't have to keep our home in order, we don't have to go to the gym or other activities, and for sure, we have an unlimited amount of money as well even after subtracting all our regular expenses. Not to mention that only a minority of Germans live nearby quality FKK clubs. But I guess that's another thing about the above mentioned blunting, I'm sure many foreigners would be happy to live nearby a crap FKK clubs. But I think you're getting what I'm trying to say. There are many things that keep you from visiting the clubs even remotely as often as you would like or as you could afford to financially. When some foreigners go on their extended club tours two or three times a year, they probably visit the clubs just as often or even more as the average German clientele. For sure, there are also some Germans who are hardcore addicted and go to the clubs all the time neglecting a lot of other things but they have to have a big wallet and not mind the implications it will have.

[Yakob]

The story Melissa told you is true and well known. I also know where the guy was from and where the happy couple is still living now. It can happen, even if it is statistically close to 0.

I think it helped that her manager was caught by the police and went away for a while.

I like a happy ending. Good luck to them.