German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pessimist]

You do a wonderful job of summarizing the financial issues, but I am not sure Pahllus was really interested in a genuine financial analysis, and it appears that anyone doing so may fall into the category of an enemy MBA type, anyway, to many ISG posters.

A central theme to his posts seems to be a Return of Kings scenario, where a relatively common man can obtain sex at a low price in an upscale environment without much inconvenience, and if that sex is obtained in a commercial transaction, society would approve of it. Kind of like getting sex instead of coffee at Starbucks.

He long ago brought up the possibility of FKKs being in the United States in much the same manner as they are in a Germany, and I believe when I discussed that a very high price would occur unless the USA Allowed Mexicans and Venezuelans to do the sex work, he was not bothered by the concept of that occurring. It wouldn't bother me either, but I cannot envision a scenario where that would happen in the USA, given how many people would object. Germany is different, but I think there are limits to tolerance even in Germany.

So in his theory, I suppose, if FKKs were publicly-traded, then society would have greater acceptance of this activity and local zoning laws would become less of an issue. There would be a commercial sex establishment near everywhere a guy would want to go, the ski slopes, the sports arena, etc. Prices would be affordable since society would accept that the establishments are to be filled with women willing to work for the lowest possible price and some kind of streamlined system like a sex work visa would be available to get poor, but attractive, women to these places, when necessary, since a publicly-traded company would face greater "labor regulations". It would be so efficient that there would even be steady cash flow to return to investors.

It is difficult to know where to even start with this type of analysis other than to point out that the trends in every country I can think of are going the other direction..

Thank you Mongerer88. Great points. I agree that sex industry would want to stay low key, below the radar, decentralized. But the key disagreement with him is "why stocks"? Private ownerships will work just fine and only they will work in the sex industry in my view. Everything he wants to see, achieve, and happen can work with private partnerships. So, he can, in theory, get together with a handful / few dozen / whatever number of like-minded investors, acquire a club, run it well, and if inshallah willing (as Polyamorist would say) their profits grow, acquire even more clubs. I think that is perfectly feasible, and that is what exists today. What exactly does the business getting listed in the stock market do for him? Added expense, added scrutiny, and not much upside.

Of course if you have $5 grand in the bank and looking to become an FKK owner, it will not happen with the private partnership structure. So, perhaps they dream of public stocks, with they hope that they can buy 50 shares at $100 each. That is too bad. One can't always have what one dreams of. We live in a real world, and it has its own realities. Wishing away those realities is well, just wishful thinking.

"So in his theory, I suppose, if FKKs were publicly-traded, then society would have greater acceptance of this activity and local zoning laws would become less of an issue" - yeah, I sense that attitude. And that is the problem. Public acceptance of a business allows for that stock to flourish but merely a stock getting listed does not lead to greater public acceptance. The cause and effect are reversed in that thinking. It is one reason why those FKK ownerships stay private. Because the owners know there is limited public acceptance.

Take cannabis and tobacco. The acceptance of cannabis in US society took a long time to happen, even now not everyone is happy with it although practically every single presidential candidate has smoked weed at some point in life. Now, there are a few cannabis stocks such as CGC, Aurora, Acreage Holdings, etc. I don't follow this industry, I have never bought their stocks, I am not an expert on them. But I do know that these stocks getting listed and trading on public markets did not change anyone's prior views or acceptance of marijuana. Rather, marijuana was widely used, slowly became more accepted, and then became legal. And sure enough, a few large enough companies with real revenues and profits emerged, and they got listed and trade now, and people own them to make money, not to make a statement.

And that is the key thing. Very few people are foolish enough to buy stocks because they want to make a statement. You keep your money and emotions separated, or else you will soon part with your money and only have bad taste in mouth and hurt emotions in your heart.

Take tobacco on the other hand. Tobacco stocks have existed for decades. They were some of the most valuable companies in the world. Tobacco stocks were a key part of the largest, most important investment fund families. They still stayed legal. But the public sentiment on tobacco soured over decades. Altria, British tobacco, Japan tobacco, PM all still trade, all still very large, but stock prices are down nearly half from a few years ago, and again the stock being traded is not influencing anyone positively but rather people's opinion of tobacco turning negative over time has kept on these stock prices.

A stock getting listed does not even mean there will be greater competition and service shall improve. Competition increases and service improves quite independently of whether clubs are owned privately or as a stock in public hands. Competition is weak in Berlin and prices and service are not great at Artemis. There is more competition, more clubs in NRW and relatively speaking service has been better. All of them privately owned.

Since we are in German forums, the most important part of German industry is the famous Mittelstand. Germany is roughly a 40-45% bigger economy than France but France has more "large enterprises" and a bigger weight in MSCI Europe than Germany does. The true backbone of German industry is however the Mittelstand companies. These are small, medium, some are up to billions in revenue but many stayed private. Fiercely independent, largely family owed and passed generation to generation, these are extremely competitive, very well run, but many or most of them are NOT listed. They are privately owned.

[Sirioja]

From my information, at least 100 and even more for 30 mn with traditional BJ, at Artemis. Swiss rate. Worth only if great beauties, but not sure many.

[Pessimist]

Well, I posted a dozen times that IMO, the chance of large FKK clubs opening prior to Sept was less than 5% and prior to December was less than 25% and it appears I am spectacularly wrong. So, I will go and order myself a crow and finish with a humble pie for dessert For now however, I will stay away from the clubs, for personal reasons.

[The Cane]

So. Lot's of great posts (thanks) about when clubs are re-opening. Notably nothing yet from Pistons, and nothing about the clubs in Hessen opening up yet. Are virus cases in Hessen high?

Query: I was a little surprised to see the jump in prices in Artemis - 90 e entry and 70/30 minutes. Of course it has always been the most expensive FKK (so far as I know) with previous prices 80 e and 60/30 compared to 50/30 almost everywhere else and lower entry fees. As has been quoted, this will reflect the monopoly the club enjoys in Berlin (in itself very odd. Why on earth don't some entrepreneurs open other FKKs in Berlin. There must be room for 3 or 4 at least like in Frankfurt). My query is whether members think we will now see prices increase (entry and room prices) in other clubs. A chance for the club and girls to attempt to recover some lost income whilst closed? It goes without saying I hope not! But it will be interesting to see if this opportunity is seized upon. Prices in Spain in at least one big club (Scandalos Malaga) increased significantly after re-opening. Hope that won't be followed throughout Germany but worrying that it happened in Spain and now in Berlin and causes me to think it might be repeated elsewhere.

FKK clubs in Hamburg and Munich (only one good one if you ask me) were always pricier than even Artemis overall. I don't see things going 100% back to the way they were, including the fact that I think some clubs will permanently close their doors. We'll have to find those open legs somewhere else!

[PayForIt]

So. Lot's of great posts (thanks) about when clubs are re-opening. Notably nothing yet from Pistons, and nothing about the clubs in Hessen opening up yet. Are virus cases in Hessen high?

Query: I was a little surprised to see the jump in prices in Artemis - 90 e entry and 70/30 minutes. Of course it has always been the most expensive FKK (so far as I know) with previous prices 80 e and 60/30 compared to 50/30 almost everywhere else and lower entry fees. As has been quoted, this will reflect the monopoly the club enjoys in Berlin (in itself very odd. Why on earth don't some entrepreneurs open other FKKs in Berlin. There must be room for 3 or 4 at least like in Frankfurt). My query is whether members think we will now see prices increase (entry and room prices) in other clubs. A chance for the club and girls to attempt to recover some lost income whilst closed? It goes without saying I hope not! But it will be interesting to see if this opportunity is seized upon. Prices in Spain in at least one big club (Scandalos Malaga) increased significantly after re-opening. Hope that won't be followed throughout Germany but worrying that it happened in Spain and now in Berlin and causes me to think it might be repeated elsewhere.

[Mursenary]

Legally it is allowed since yesterday, but of course it takes some time for the clubs to re-open, and understand what the exact rules are under which it will be allowed.

Aca Gold will re-open Friday (9/11), like Penelope and M-Exclusiv. Sky Wuppertal on Saturday (9/12), Babylon around end of next week (September 18?)

Rumours: Club Diamond today, Venus and Living Room Friday, etc.

Lets wait and see (especially the strict rules under which several clubs might re-open again.

I'm guessing the 150 person limit will apply. Perhaps the smaller clubs can resume some semblance of pre-covid business levels but the mega clubs have no shot unless they limit the number of girls and staff to accommodate for more patrons. Sharks, Samya, Mondial, Oase, GT will struggle.

[Pistons]

No updates on Goldentime nor Oceans as of yet. Although Oceans seems to have been open on Fridays and Saturdays for awhile now. I suspect just for partying, and no P6.

[Pistons]

FKK Magnum says they will be reopening in a few days.

But be back with more information soon on their website.

[Pistons]

Dolce Vita reopens on the 12th. Sept.

[Pistons]

Acapulco Velbert is set to open on Friday 18th Sept.

[HammerTime96]

I agree. They are cold and authoritarian. You can hardly see any minority in German police force.

In the initial weeks after the Germans Vovid19 lifted travel restrictions, I needed to be in Germany for work and was stopped at big police checkpoints near the border. Most of the police manning those checkpoints were new recruits, and it now perfectly mirrored the multicultural "ideal" that Germany now wants to be. Plenty of minorities and those were just as arrogant and authoritarian as the native Germans.

A former Bulgarian girlfriend of mine used to work for the police and she told me how easy it was to get in as a "minority. " They are dropping the standards to fill the quota, and the result is authoritarian assholes with a gun and a badge. What could possibly go wrong? / sarc.

[Sirioja]

At Paradise Sarrebrucken in Saarland, seem each girl has own room, so 20 rooms, 20 girls, for new rule. Also mask in club for guys and girls and no more buffet, but staff is serving. I won t go for this, except for a girl I would know. Seem starting casting is very average, like was reported for Artemis and 6 ens NL. Just to empty balls.

[Maxime]

Great news. Any information about when any of the clubs will actually open then?

Legally it is allowed since yesterday, but of course it takes some time for the clubs to re-open, and understand what the exact rules are under which it will be allowed.

Aca Gold will re-open Friday (9/11), like Penelope and M-Exclusiv. Sky Wuppertal on Saturday (9/12), Babylon around end of next week (September 18?)

Rumours: Club Diamond today, Venus and Living Room Friday, etc.

Lets wait and see (especially the strict rules under which several clubs might re-open again.

[Bfsie]

Any information about when any of the clubs will actually open then?

Technically, they have to receive more information from the public order office and work out hygiene concepts which comply with the existing government measures, besides the issue of availibility of WGs. I think it would probably take a week or two.

Yeah, "Germans are going to German," it's in their blood.

I was at GT during a raid a few years ago, and I could suddenly understand Germany's "history" a lot better.

If you have to do a job like checking IDs, then do it professionally, efficiently but also courteously, but the German police was obviously there with a politically correct agenda: and it showed!

I agree. They are cold and authoritarian. You can hardly see any minority in German police force.

[Alessandro527]

Prostitution is not forbidden in Hessen with Sharks girls escorting, but all brothels are closed since mid March. Paradise Sarrebrucken and Artemis are with mask. Not so erotic when You need beauty to desire.

I think you can find prostitutes escorting all over Germany no matter if it is forbidden or not. Just take a look at escort sites.