German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[HammerTime96]

I felt such a warm hospitable treatment of German police when it comes to FKK LOL!

Yeah, "Germans are going to German," it's in their blood.

I was at GT during a raid a few years ago, and I could suddenly understand Germany's "history" a lot better.

If you have to do a job like checking IDs, then do it professionally, efficiently but also courteously, but the German police was obviously there with a politically correct agenda: and it showed! What a bunch of arrogant Muppet, especially considering how the German police failed miserably in 2015 when hundreds of women were raped in the centre of Cologne during the New Year's celebrations and the authorities and media tried to cover everything up.

[Mr Ho]

Were you never in a club when the s T AFF came and picked up all the ashtrays and smoking inside was suddenly forbidden. This was a sure sign that the police would arrive within ten minutes. How did they know. Well, The little bird was trained to sing.

I was in Artemis when fire alarm went off falsely and police just raided the place and we both clients and girls were standing outside in cold winter, some of girls with just towels wrapped around their naked body and it was little bit raining too. I felt such a warm hospitable treatment of German police when it comes to FKK LOL!

[Chongmal]

Sex forum turned cloud funding LOL, but in reality, I think to be the owner of German FKK, you got to be one foot into shady world or you will face problems from both shady people and also from all kind of government including police which is the real mafia LOL.

It is curious industry, but I do think there are a lot of their own rule in this industry which do not welcome new comer LOL As an example, there was a big plan and actual construction for new big FKK near Potsdam in Berlin, construction stopped half way and now plan is long gone, why? I can only guess for my own misery as it would be ideal to have second big FKK in Berlin LOL!

Were you never in a club when the s T AFF came and picked up all the ashtrays and smoking inside was suddenly forbidden. This was a sure sign that the police would arrive within ten minutes. How did they know. Well, The little bird was trained to sing.

[BaltiX]

What makes you think you only get CBJs in traditional brothels?

[Mongerer88]

Why would the managers of a public company care about a practice that only happens behind closed doors? BBBJ and other illegal activities would continue as before.

Because your investment is at greater risk if the government imposes a conspiracy type fine upon the entity for knowingly allowing an illegal activity to occur. If someone can read about it online from multiple credible sources, then the theory is that the company should have internally investigated it and have taken action. A similar thing is happening in the pharmaceutical world regarding sale of opiates.

I don't get some of you guys. The government is never your friend in this business. In some countries, it is the opponent, in other countries, particularly Germany, it is a somewhat disapproving but tolerant observer. When you introduce the concept of a publicly-traded company being involved, you introduce regulatory oversight and regulations that would be bizarre to try to apply.

You are simply better off, in my opinion, of having it run by the friendly "Sons of Anarchy" type motorcycle gang who can do questionable things like pay a finders fee to someone informing hot young Romanian women of the existence of FKKs than a system where doing that on official books and records might violate some law in some country, and get you fined. Prices would go up and some services would decline when you introduce the government and investors. Didn't prices go up, and some services at some places go down, a few years ago when the a German government introduced new laws? Regulatory agencies that govern public companies wouldn't "pass" new laws, they already have plenty of existing regulations that would be applied to FKKs that were never previously applicable.

[The Cane]

The real message is: those that play have a real interest, not a hit and run, fickle punt. This is the same concept behind frequent flyer points, but here, people get real quarterly dividend checks.

Ah, great minds think alike! I too was thinking about the airline industry as a comparison! And on that note, why state regulation as Pistons suggests? No, if this thing is going to happen, then there must be deregulation and fierce competition, just like with the airlines. With that, there would be different market segments among the clubs, with some being budget-minded (bring your own soap and towels LOL) and others offering first / business class facilities and the hottest girls (and perhaps higher prices), and every other kind of club and pricing in between. Privatization and deregulation promotes competition and yields the best options for the monger with an eye on prices and quality. I say again. I would invest in a well-run, cash cow, on-premises, FKK-style sex club chain if I could. Call the chain "Tutes" LOLOLOL!

[Pessimist]

Sorry to be the Debbie Downer for today, but this whole stock market idea seems like a pipe dream to me.

If you are thinking of a private partnership where some mongers pool their money and buy a club or a few clubs, fine that is doable. I am sure the idea of being owners and consumers of these fuck franchises is appealing. Who hasn't dreamt of it?

But if the idea is extended beyond a private partnership to listing on a real exchange, it is a non starter.

Companies go public for a few reasons. First, access to capital markets. Secondly, owners (investors) have transparent pricing of their asset and can enter and exit the position as they wish when they wish. The trade off is that there are real expenses to being listed. These expenses are a deterrent for smaller companies to get listed. There is a reason the neighborhood mom and pop pizza is not listed on the market but Dominoes or McDonald's are. An additional $250 K fee as an example for various audits, filing fee, meeting compliance requirements which have increased with Dodd Frank, would not be a problem for a company with annual revenue of $200 M but might be a problem for a smaller company with small profit margin.

Right off the bat, specifics are important. Some info which is needed but I do not know this info and reading these pages for a year or more now, I get the sense most members here also do not know. (A) who are the current owners of various clubs and are they willing to sell their clubs and if so at what price (b) what are the financials of these clubs, such as annual revenues, fixed and variable costs, profit margins, growth and maintenance capex, and how do they scale. For instance what would be revenue and margin for Sharks, for dolce Vita and for Bernds and if Sharks could grow revenues by say 20% how much would profit margin expand? . (C) are there synergies if owning more than one club and what would they be (d) what are the required licenses and how difficult is it to obtain a license? Assume for now that you are able to attract girls and customers for this part of the discussion.

I think it makes sense to restrict this discussion to Germany, as this becomes even more of a pipe dream in other countries where no fuck clubs exist even now.

Most stocks get listed on exchanges after they have been operating as businesses for a while, want to grow bigger, and need capital. That suggests that someone like Sharks or Oase or Artemis, sufficiently large, could approach the capital markets. The idea floated here, I. E a bunch of mongers owning the club as stock investors, well are you saying you will buy shares in this Sharks Inc? Or pool money into a shell entity and the shell acquires clubs? Or even perhaps build new clubs?

Building new clubs is a terrible idea. First there is already overcapacity. Too many clubs. Many members said on these pages that barring a few top clubs, many Clubs seem relatively empty with not much profits for most of the year. A group of monger guys who have zero experience in prior operation of any club should not be building a new club, thus adding to the overcapacity and diluting business for all.

Assume you pool your money and begin a shell company, each participant gets some shares, and you acquire a well established club, hopefully at a reasonable price. Assume for the moment, Sharks or Oase or some other club owner sells their club willingly. So far, all the capital is yours. Now, if you want to list this in Frankfurt or some other exchange, DB or Commerzbank or any other reputed bank is absolutely not willing to underwrite this business. No one take you to IPO. If you dispute this assertion, you have zero experience with culture And DNA of any investment bank, I can tell you. Perhaps you can get some other zombie shell company which is listed on some pink sheets somewhere to do a reverse merger with you and you can get thus listed in a backdoor manner. But even if you do so, what is the point?! Who will be the new investors? No institutional investor would ever step in. Not one. May be some other retail, monger investors will step in. May be. It will still be you and your small pool for the most part. For that, why did you even bother going to public listing? You could have stayed private. As I said, being listed carries real expenses.

My guess is, even the largest club, say Sharks, doesn't have annual profit exceeding $10 M. Profits, not revenues mind you. That is my guess. If you have better info, please do share. For a smut business with uncertain visibility and sustainability, it will not attract any meaningful multiple. I. e. The market cap will not exceed $30 M to $50 M.

In the last 20 years, the number of stocks in developed countries have declined materially. Wiltshire 5000 index at one point did have 5000 stocks but now has around 3500. The total number of stocks in US exchanges was in the range of 7500 and now less than 4000. Companies merged, stocks taken private, MBO and LBO, and so on. Expenses, regulatory issues were a key driving force in this reduction.

As far as I know only a couple of smut stocks have ever been listed on US exchanges. Playboy did trade for more than 30 years but eventually it too went private. It NEVER Once exceeded $300 M in revenue, and no not because of internet killing publications. Even before there was a thing called internet, playboy never exceeded $300 M revenue and its market cap never exceeded a few hundred million. When it was taken private, that was just above $100 M I think. New frontier media, which owned Ten network and also Owned Penthouse if I remember correctly, never exceeded $50 M revenue and was a small micro cap. It too is no longer listed.

In short, there is a real advantage to having more than one stock in a given space. Unless you have more than one FKK stock listed, the one single stock will languish even more.

Of late, SpAcs have become somewhat hot. A lot of EV stocks went public through spacs. But even a Spac is not a panacea for a FKK listing. The spac sponsor, after having raised the money and then disclosing he intends to purchase an FKK will have a revolt on his hand. There are clauses which enable investors to pull out and the spac sponsor's reputation is ruined.

As I said, institutional investors will have zero interest. Imagine you are a bright 29 year old MBA or CFA. Will you pitch to your PM "let us buy Sharks stock, it has strong growth potential because next year the number of monger fuckers will increase by x percent, door entry price increase 10 Euros, club will issue fewer discount cards, club can reduce costs by cutting Air conditioning expense by making the fish tank room even hotter, and providing even shittier food and capex is coming down because they will put off the repairs on sauna for another year".

When Playboy and New frontier were listed, ESG was not a big deal. Now every fund manager is hot on eSG. I can politely tell you ESG is not exactly compatible with fuck clubs. 20 years ago, there were fewer women in fund management business, now there are many.

So it all comes down again, who will be the new investors beyond your little core group? If you cannot expand the number of investors beyond a private pool, there is no advantage to being publicly listed, but plenty of downside due to scrutiny and added expenses.

Stocks, by their very nature, demand growth. As far as I know, these clubs are not growing that much. If anything, they seem to be flattish or even declining. The only scenario in which it works is if a big club gets listed, say Sharks or Oase, has better access to capital, raises some new money and with that it goes shopping for other clubs and consolidates as many clubs as possible. That is what happens in a stagnant market. If revenues are not growing, you increase profits by cutting costs. This is what I referred above by "synergies if multiple clubs are owned by a single owner and how much are the synergies". But if Sharks comes calling, will Oase, World and Dietz sell? Will authorities allow it? Will customers like it? Will girls like it?

Sorry, this idea is DOA. Dead on arrival. My 2 cents.

[Sirioja]

Can someone enlighten me please? I have read the reports in the Artemis thread and the club is clearly open. Looks like the same in Bavaria. Why are the clubs in NRW and Hessen not opening? If they are doing so, can anyone say when for certain? Thanks.

Also Saarland try to open, when prostitution is forbidden in NRW. Different lander, different problems, different decision. But for all opened, mask.

[Mr Ho]

Why would the managers of a public company care about a practice that only happens behind closed doors? BBBJ and other illegal activities would continue as before.

It is not illegal because we fell in love during the act LOL!

[Samplerr]

So how do you handle BBBJs in your system?

A saving grace of FKKs, as opposed to more traditional German brothels, including Paradise, has been the fact that being a regular, or doing a tip, still gets Johns a BBBJ in spite of the CBJ law. Of course escorts will do what they choose in their private incall or in the customer's hotel room. And the supposedly sleazy current management of the FKKs, including some reported motorcycle club-type folks, will look the other way regarding BBBJs. I am doubtful that will happen in your REIT / Operating Company structure even if the shareholders own the REIT.

Why would the managers of a public company care about a practice that only happens behind closed doors? BBBJ and other illegal activities would continue as before.

[Mr Ho]

The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Paradise should have made a fortune, but as the documentary "Mega Brothel" explains, it expanded too much and ran too much debt, and could not get enough customers. Part of that was greed rather than price-demand optimization curves of start low, hook 'them, and reel them in with gradual price increases rather than a naive "must balance the pro-forma now".

Sex forum turned cloud funding LOL, but in reality, I think to be the owner of German FKK, you got to be one foot into shady world or you will face problems from both shady people and also from all kind of government including police which is the real mafia LOL.

It is curious industry, but I do think there are a lot of their own rule in this industry which do not welcome new comer LOL As an example, there was a big plan and actual construction for new big FKK near Potsdam in Berlin, construction stopped half way and now plan is long gone, why? I can only guess for my own misery as it would be ideal to have second big FKK in Berlin LOL!

[Smoke Light]

PahllusMaximus, sir, I read each and every post of yours word to word, and it gives me the experience of a short-term teleportation to a mysterious magical world inhibited by a better evolved civilization. I thank you for that. If a marriage certificate could expire in 30 minutes we might solved all sorts of legality issues with prostitution. Quantitatively, what is the difference between quick fuck with a woman in a private room or being married to her at a conjoined housing for 30 years? All multiplied by time spent together plus minus minor adjustments. Second grade math. Satisfy moral beliefs of puritanistic society by accepting a girl writing down her name at a publically traded FKK to be an official signage of a dinky marriage certification. Sworn by a theke, witnessed by video surveillance and the next couple waiting for a key at the reception.

[Mongerer88]

The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

So how do you handle BBBJs in your system?

A saving grace of FKKs, as opposed to more traditional German brothels, including Paradise, has been the fact that being a regular, or doing a tip, still gets Johns a BBBJ in spite of the CBJ law. Of course escorts will do what they choose in their private incall or in the customer's hotel room. And the supposedly sleazy current management of the FKKs, including some reported motorcycle club-type folks, will look the other way regarding BBBJs. I am doubtful that will happen in your REIT / Operating Company structure even if the shareholders own the REIT. The landlord still has an obligation to make sure no crimes occur on the property. So better nix those reviews regarding BBBJ, which will of course hurt marketing. The older a guy gets, the more important that a BBBJ is for an erection, and the older guys have the money. That older guy is just going to get a Sugar Baby instead of shelling out the money for a Europe trip if he knows he is going to get stuck with a CBJ at your publicly-traded FKK.

[Mr Ho]

The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Paradise should have made a fortune, but as the documentary "Mega Brothel" explains, it expanded too much and ran too much debt, and could not get enough customers. Part of that was greed rather than price-demand optimization curves of start low, hook 'them, and reel them in with gradual price increases rather than a naive "must balance the pro-forma now". Listing a company is not so much to raise capital, but to create a base of evangelists and normalize the industry as a real business rather than run by dodgy owners. It blew up because of tax evasion (greed) on top of an already suspect business. Imagine a well run, strong governance company with transparency where punters and the girls (past and future) are owners and with "skin in the game" (literally and figuratively) keep a beady eye on operations and introduce repeat business discipline rather than short term profits (ie where bean counters are mean spirited and kill the golden goose). This has never been done as far as I know. My basic idea is: take out the sleazy people, provide a responsible, steady dividend that is shared. Stockholders get theirs. Governments get theirs. Punters and girls can earn points and trade for equity, or buy direct. It is their club, and they will look after it, just as condo owners protect common property and talk up their condo complex.

Then there goes some of us mongers who fly half the way around this planet to attend nights of sexual fantasies LOL, but it is worth every mile and every euro we spent LOL! Every cent we do not spend on beautiful young prostitute at stunner levels are waste of money and waste of life LOL!

I mean what else are there? Good food, good travelling and young beautiful girls one after another, this is men's dream come true LOL!

[Austin28]

Short answer is Korston is pretty low brow. Would not recommend after you know the alternatives. We did it in a side room on a beat up leather couch. It was pretty great at the time. Prices have gone up so those are best covered in Part 3 (skipping part 2 here) below. Only club detail covered in Part 2 (which includes semi naked Karaoke as the waitress brings platters of sushi and jack and coke!) is that ALL the girls in a Russian club are for hire. Not just the dancers the hostesses, the bar maids, the waitresses! My epic sushi and jack experience was with a pair of hot barmaids!

Here is Part 3 with good detail on rooms and pricing..

Thanks Steve for sharing this with us. Really enjoyed reading it. Never been to Russia but this gives good insights into what to expect. I have heard that visa can be hassle for US citizens, but will take a look at Russian forums for more details. Thanks!!