German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Mr Ho]

What was the website you guys were following to find the latest news on potential FKK openings in Germany?

I do hear SS is hot right now, and the Austrian clubs are improving. But I'm still a bit on the fence here.

I check the website called: http://internationalsexguide.nl/ LOL!

[Mr Ho]

If you mean 6 ens NL with girls wearing mask in lounge bar, when usually very average casting, maybe prettier with mask.

LOL Mask LOL!

I bet within first few minutes, set sentence said to girls by mongers would be like, can you lift up your mask? LOL Then mask off test is pass, let go to the room, and the mask off test is failed, you tell her, you have to return some video tapes and walks away LOL.

[Mr Ho]

In 2002, there seemed to be more widespread support for legalization. I believe the pendulum has swung the other way. Most WGs do not want to register, despite the legal protections, insurances, and pension. No different than mongers who by and large do not want to register. From a human rights perspective, I believe the alleged increase in trafficking activity since 2002 has brought negative attention to Germany.

So yes, "failed experiment" might employ them giving up entirely. Clearly what the government did was reassess, and introduce stricter legislation in an attempt to curb the problem (I. E. all WGs must register, all WGs must provide physical permanent address and not sleep in club etc). But if the attempts to curb the problem are not successful, then what?

In the worst case scenario, we got Switzerland, that money aggressive nation will always provide prostitution. Legal age was 18, but it was even 16 before, now changed back to 18. Switzerland is our last place standing in rainy day, if such rainy day will come.

[McAdonis]

If the original intent was based on a recognition that WGs are unsafe in an environment where prostitution was not legalized, that recognition is still there. I don't see any evidence that the prior recognition has vanished. Ditto about trying to protect the girls from criminal elements as you put it.

I read the 2017 laws as trying to improve on the prior bills, and not as a change of heart. I see a contradiction in your language. You call it "a failed experiment" in their perception, but then use the phrase "correct the miscalculations". Very few people expect a new experiment to succeed 100%, completely. After a while, they make an assessment and make changes to improve it, which you suggested with your phrase "correct the miscalculations". But "failed experiment" is too dramatic. If they had believed the entire thing is a failure, they would have made much more dramatic changes.

In 2002, there seemed to be more widespread support for legalization. I believe the pendulum has swung the other way. Most WGs do not want to register, despite the legal protections, insurances, and pension. No different than mongers who by and large do not want to register. From a human rights perspective, I believe the alleged increase in trafficking activity since 2002 has brought negative attention to Germany.

So yes, "failed experiment" might employ them giving up entirely. Clearly what the government did was reassess, and introduce stricter legislation in an attempt to curb the problem (I. E. all WGs must register, all WGs must provide physical permanent address and not sleep in club etc). But if the attempts to curb the problem are not successful, then what?

"When the law changed to decriminalize brothels there really was widespread support. Many people naively believed that legalization and regulation would turn prostitution into a supposedly 'normal' kind of business. In the past five years, however, theres been a shift back towards a broader consensus in the other direction, as we realize that things have gotten worse, that there are victims of trafficking still. Its as if abuse is now carrying on with a legalized varnish."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-03-25/amsterdam-s-latest-quest-to-tame-legalized-prostitution.

Job Cohen said he doesn't want prostitution or drugs recriminalized, but would like to shutdown the shops showcasing the prostitutes from behind glass windows.

Hesaid a move in 2000 to legalize prostitution failed to curb gangsters running Amsterdam's sex trade.

Legalization "didn't bring us what we hoped and expected," he told reporters at the upscale Krasnapolsky Hotel on Dam Square, which backs onto the red-light district.

"We want in part to reverse it, especially with regard to the exploitation of women in the sex industry," he said.

Officials fear women are being forced into prostitution, something that legalization was supposed to prevent.

"We have seen in the last years that women trafficking has becoming more, so in this respect the legalizing of the prostitution didn't work out," Cohen said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mayor-unveils-plan-to-clean-up-amsterdam-s-red-light-district-1.674880

[Sirioja]

What was the website you guys were following to find the latest news on potential FKK openings in Germany?

I do hear SS is hot right now, and the Austrian clubs are improving. But I'm still a bit on the fence here.

If you mean 6 ens NL with girls wearing mask in lounge bar, when usually very average casting, maybe prettier with mask.

[Pistons]

What was the website you guys were following to find the latest news on potential FKK openings in Germany?

I do hear SS is hot right now, and the Austrian clubs are improving. But I'm still a bit on the fence here.

[Turgid]

.........By 2017, those same proponents had come to realize that legalization had been a failed experiment..........

In FKKs the customers were happy and the working girls were happy. The only people who were unhappy were the impotent men and frigid women in authority.

[Pessimist]

When decriminalization happened in 2002, the impetus was NOT male mongers taking to the streets and fighting for their rights. But rather, it was politicians who believed that legalization would create safer working conditions for WGs. The legalization of prostitution was seen as "progressive" and a victory for yes even the feminists. They believed WGs would be emancipated from the criminals that exploited them.

By 2017, those same proponents had come to realize that legalization had been a failed experiment. The laws introduced in 2017 were an attempt to correct the miscalculations of the 2002 draft.

If the original intent was based on a recognition that WGs are unsafe in an environment where prostitution was not legalized, that recognition is still there. I don't see any evidence that the prior recognition has vanished. Ditto about trying to protect the girls from criminal elements as you put it.

I read the 2017 laws as trying to improve on the prior bills, and not as a change of heart. I see a contradiction in your language. You call it "a failed experiment" in their perception, but then use the phrase "correct the miscalculations". Very few people expect a new experiment to succeed 100%, completely. After a while, they make an assessment and make changes to improve it, which you suggested with your phrase "correct the miscalculations". But "failed experiment" is too dramatic. If they had believed the entire thing is a failure, they would have made much more dramatic changes and not simply "don't suck dick with no condom" rules which as we all know is completely and universally violated as long as the girl is enticed with a longer session or more money if the monger is an Asian visitor.

I lean towards the view they prefer prostitution in a safe and legal establishment and would let it continue when the Covid situation is under control.

[BaltiX]

If former Warsaw Pact countries were already EU members before the 2002 law was passed or German legislators decided to write the law years later (like after 2008), do you think it be the same or there will be differences? IMO they might make it harder for sex businesses (including escort agencies) to hire foreign girls or operate independently, especially from hot trafficking spots like Romania or Russia. They might introduce fines for customers who see trafficked girls like in the UK or even jail time. What do you think?

[Mr Ho]

When decriminalization happened in 2002, the impetus was NOT male mongers taking to the streets and fighting for their rights. But rather, it was politicians who believed that legalization would create safer working conditions for WGs. The legalization of prostitution was seen as "progressive" and a victory for yes even the feminists. They believed WGs would be emancipated from the criminals that exploited them.

By 2017, those same proponents had come to realize that legalization had been a failed experiment. The laws introduced in 2017 were an attempt to correct the miscalculations of the 2002 draft.

Basically correct the miscalculations as in AO clubs mostly? Which as a collateral damage affected our BBBJ package at standard rate.

[McAdonis]

What is your theory why P6 was legalized and that too at such large scale, in such a public fashion, mega FKks, in the first place? If advocates are not many and are too shy to ask for it publicly, and politicians always benefit by posing around as tough on sex and crime and sexual crime, what was the impetus to have made it happen and what changed from then to now.

When decriminalization happened in 2002, the impetus was NOT male mongers taking to the streets and fighting for their rights. But rather, it was politicians who believed that legalization would create safer working conditions for WGs. The legalization of prostitution was seen as "progressive" and a victory for yes even the feminists. They believed WGs would be emancipated from the criminals that exploited them.

"The idea of the law, passed by Chancellor Gerhard Schrders Social Democrat-Green coalition, was to recognise prostitution as a job like any other. Sex workers could now enter into employment contracts, sue for payment and register for health insurance, pension plans and other benefits. Exploiting prostitutes was still criminal but everything else was now above board. Two female politicians and a Berlin madam were pictured clinking their champagne glasses in celebration."

https://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/.

By 2017, those same proponents had come to realize that legalization had been a failed experiment. The laws introduced in 2017 were an attempt to correct the miscalculations of the 2002 draft.

"The desired effect for sex workers has not been achieved. Sex workers have not made use of their rights. Only one percent of sex workers have signed a legal work contract. A survey conducted by the Social Science Research Institute on Women's Studies at Freiburg's Protestant University of Applied Sciences also showed that the overwhelming majority of state-regulated health insurance companies and pension schemes do not list prostitution as a profession."

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-introduces-unpopular-prostitution-law/a-39511761

[HammerTime96]

Hey I thought I was the only Arab on here, but now some people are pretending.

Looks like they are going to shut down Amsterdam the same way they are shutting down Hamburg. Using the usual umbrella excuse: COVID-19. There is no tute on earth naive enough to believe any intervention of this kind can be anything but destruction.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. " -- Someone Who Loved Government So Much he Took It Over And Grew It 60%.

Indeed, and the political pattern is very clear: Femke Halsema is a member of the Dutch extreme leftwing Green Party (former Communist Party of The Netherlands) and Hamburg is ruled by a coalition of SPD (socialists) and Greens.

It's always very typical and funny how hypocritical those leftwing parties are: preaching "diversity, tolerance and freedom" but once in power they start to outlaw and censor everything and everybody.

I'm afraid that the Swedish model (also ruled by leftwing social democrats for decades) for P6 will be introduced in Europe, and CV19 is the prefect scapegoat but the naive Germans still blindly trust their politicians and government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Parliament

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GroenLinks

[Pessimist]

P6 is used by a small percentage of the population. And if you are going to count the men who actually see a WG regularly (as in more than ten times a year), we are talking probably less than 1 percent of the population. Nobody gives a shit but us hardcore mongers. The problem is there are not that many hardcore mongers, and even less who would voluntarily relinquish their anonymity to participate in a protest. If prostitution were abolished in Germany tomorrow, very few people would put up a fight. Just like nobody really put up a fight when similar things happened in USA or France. Rather than protest the anti-P6 laws, these American and French men "blindly followed their politicians".

Since the closing of FKK clubs back in March, many local mongers quit P6. However, the more hardcore ones continue to engage in P6 either illegally in DEU or travelling to other countries where it is currently legal. Again no different to what American and French mongers have done for years.

What is your theory why P6 was legalized and that too at such large scale, in such a public fashion, mega FKks, in the first place? If advocates are not many and are too shy to ask for it publicly, and politicians always benefit by posing around as tough on sex and crime and sexual crime, what was the impetus to have made it happen and what changed from then to now.

(Please go light on feminist bashing and rants. Not you McA, but others).

[Pessimist]

Salaam!

And this is exactly what we have been saying here on a FKK boards for a long time! FKK some red light window or a stinky building.

This 'hotel' will probably end up like an FKK.

Hi Pistons,

Yes, that was my first thought too. If all the tutes are in one building, it makes selection easier. However, this is being forced upon them and not with any good intent to help or make the sex business flourish. It is obviously to clean up the sex district and transform it like Time Square from 1990's to now.

[Polyamorist]

Salaam!

Hey I thought I was the only Arab on here, but now some people are pretending.

Looks like they are going to shut down Amsterdam the same way they are shutting down Hamburg. Using the usual umbrella excuse: COVID-19. There is no tute on earth naive enough to believe any intervention of this kind can be anything but destruction.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. " -- Someone Who Loved Government So Much he Took It Over And Grew It 60%.