German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pistons]

Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).

(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.

(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".

It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.

LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.

Sure there are some minor biological differences, some of which is even based on environmental factors. But several people have swayed from gay to straight and vice versa forever. In ancient Greece and rome, this was all normal. Some people even consider it to be 'bi'. Meaning both straight and gay. But you can assume your own definition whenever you pay the most focus on one side of the coin (LOL?) There is allways a combination of environment and genetics. And your comment assumes you know more about my comment than what I posted. And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about.

[McAdonis]

True, but in most situations, as a seller you consider most of the things you sell to be ridiculously overpriced. Insurances for example.

Selling overpriced items or unneccessary warranties to boost profit is generally not considered cruel, immoral, or criminal. Reputable watch shops might do this for example. But as I said, most businesses are just looking for a "healthy" profit margin. They are not trying to defraud or take their customers to the cleaners because these businesses plan to stay in business long term, not like some counterfeit watch salesman who changes street corners and cities every other day.

Selling counterfeit, fake items that can result in long-term suffering for the client requires higher degrees of callousness. Examples would be the Chinese companies that sold baby formula with melamine in it. Or again the Madoff scandal.

"Take someone to the cleaners" is an American idiom which means to take all someone's money or possessions in a dishonest or unfair way (Google).

[McAdonis]

An even darker scenario is the mother of a crying baby. Sometimes the mom is so tired that she cannot garner the energy to console a crying child. My friend would even purposely go to the patio to escape the kid's cries. Did she have empathy and actually felt pain for her child? I know for a fact she did. But in that tired state, that empathy could not overcome her need for respite care of her own sanity.

This threshold theory is supported by the scenario you painted before where a WG finally cuts ties with a monger once her reasoning no longer "assuages her guilt."

While there are thresholds involved as you suggest, I see some distinctions between the scenario I painted above, and the mother of crying baby scenario you describe.

One, I do not consider this mother's actions to be cruel, immoral, or criminal, whereas a WG taking a monger to the cleaners is. Whether it is time, money, or energy, there is a limit to how much one can give. Now if the mother were receiving baby food money from the government, but used that money instead to buy designer purses while watching her baby starve, that is a different story. However, the mother who occasionally does not pick up and comfort her crying baby knows that "in the balance" she is treating her baby well, meaning that tomorrow she will spend the entire day with her baby, once she is rested. In the balance she knows that she gives and helps significantly more than she neglects. Can we say the same for a WG--does she give more than she takes from a lovesick monger?

Two, the mother is not actively inflicting pain onto her baby. I characterize this mother's behavior as "momentary" neglect of responsibility, because eight times out of ten, I assume your friend picks up her crying baby. Looking away when someone is suffering is quite different than deliberately and actively causing suffering. In most cases, the latter requires either higher levels of sociopathy or a greater degree of self-deception. The former would be the German populace that failed to intervene (passive) during the Nazi era, the latter would be the SS soldiers who executed (active) Jews as they begged for their life. In both my hypothetical scenarios with the burglar and the scamming WG, the perpetrators had already inflicted significant financial and emotional pain onto their victims, but they simply showed mercy at the final stage of their cruel, immoral, and criminal act.

[Polyamorist]

(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.

Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.

I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.

[Neurosynth]

Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort.

And when did you decide to be straight?

Geeze.

Sorry, I should have told you sooner. Well, what can I say? Though luck?

Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).

(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.

(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".

It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.

[Pistons]

I think an important thing we need to keep in mind here is that the girls stay in the clubs almost every day. Every week aside from when going on vacation. Almost without a single exclusion to the norm, when I meet a new girl in a club who just started the job, she is far far more into it than someone who has been in the environment for years or months. Her hormones are just not overused. After 5-10 visits again with the same girl, you start regaining some passion. But then it seems to be more about friendship and security, as opposed to pure heat like on the first 1 or 2 sessions. Maybe I am lucky, but girls new to clubs after just 1-3 days of working are always wet, and to me at least it is easy to make them cum. After awhile they get dry, and need heavy lubrication. I have told some chefs to use more tomatos and other types of food to boost the girls enjoyment, but unless they manage to get that, it is more and more like phallus says.

[CaneUppHosAss]

What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?

https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces.../dp/1577315936

Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL!

Haha. Well sir, the other gentleman postulated what if and I provided one scenario. I think longer lasting big dicks may be a reasonable scenario within our time horizons. Not sure about 2 dicks though.

Not to mention, if a man has 2 dicks then he would always be forced to fuck 2 girls at the same or DP a girl. Normal, traditional vaginal sex with one girl might be a difficult thing when the second dick gets in the way! LOL.

[Sirioja]

I agree fully. But I am not so sure it is the girl who is to blame. But rather the society at large, forcing this area of life into the underground.

First part of your comment made me laugh a bit. You are totally right there! Silly terms indeed.

Like testing the theory of cold outside on a winter day. Is it cold because the weather forecast said it would be, or is it really cold outside? Because even if you didn't see the forecast, you might have been affected by the presence of someone who might just have seen it. So in order to test the thesis, you basically need to bring out someone from a mental institution. Preferably an old person. Somebody not able to get affect by others, and who has his own little box around him. And then see if he falls on what is presumably real ice. Otherwise, it might not be ice at all.

Fake ice!

For sure, WGs are right to protect their real private intimacy, and I m not really interested about. Even I often give advice, more often about woman care from my life with women, than about Globe, to my favorites, but when they ask why You don t come to visit Romania, to ski around Brasov, even know snow is better in Romania, but I m not interested out of clubs, not my image of girlfriend, but in clubs I m only interested when I can touch the woman part, I don t repeat just for sex, I need to feel the woman part to really enjoy. Just technique and sex, even with fire in bed, would be boring to repeat, but when You touch sensuality and woman, then we can improve together and much more enjoyable for me.

Girls say we are all different, for sure I m very different from Asians for girls, I know my eyes are very different about girls looks and behavior, behavior is the most important for me, even I need beauty, I left girls I drove weekly so many kilometers for and they came straight to me when they saw me, but new behavior made me run away, no more woman, just prostitute, not anymore interesting, don t worth anymore to pay for, when I paid 1500/2000 for one on some months. On the other hand, I drove from Luxemburg to LR just to explain with a girl, not even for sex, just because I didn't want she believe bullshits. She understood by herself even before I explained, nice chat with her, I like this kind of girl. Also look forward to meet again one who stopped to work for few hours at 1 pm when I told her I didn't want to repeat because she finished too exhausted our room on previous night, so I was afraid to hurt her. I will have to explain with her.

[Pahllus Maximus]

One of the recent trends in American and other western societies is the idea that men and women lay 100% of their emotional deck of cards at the feet of the partner. Especially men. In the past, and in many cultures such as the older Greeks, Asian and judaism, the men for strong strong social bonds independent of their relationships. This ancient system builds very real redundancy. Taking the box analogy, it creates many good quality boxes that may not include a pretty young thing (neither pretty or young for very long) , but is real and life sustaining. As Nick the G says, the other boxes are bought, illusionary and transient, and the owners work hard to make it leak proof. Throwing seed in those boxes (at least the psychological type) is mostly wasted on barren ground. Some would say WG's are close to a warm play toy for masturbation, though I disagree. But it is definitely not the real thing given for free and from the heart. Men can disassociate sex from emotions far better than women. Some men confuse the two. The girl with her personal box analogy was spot on and remarkably wise. A way better path for men is to build wide and deep relationships with people where the wildcard of sex is out of the equation. Not glitzy clubs anyone with a fistful of euros is an instant friend and instantly ejected once the cash is gone.

I often wonder what it would be like to be in a WG's skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? How would I feel with a bunch of leering cougars twice my age ogling me like a piece of prime beef cut into imaginary in sections? What if I had to parade in speedos or a g-string as well ? And then smile and act fascinated for hours on end with some old woman who works in a corporate bunker and tells me about her messed up life as her personal confessor ? And in a second language ? Yes, women do have a peacock gene to show off and be pretty, but they also like to control that to people they are attracted to. Looking around a FKK at the majority of mongers is far from a male beauty contest. The contrast between the girls and the men in attractiveness is pretty stark for the most part.

Comparmentalization. Disassociation- of identity comes with significant costs of self-esteem and anxiety and is not free, save for psychopaths where it is just one of several masks in a box that is an endless vaccum. Know yourself, train the brain to spot and kill dangerous cravings and discontent over what the past should have been or what might happen (the Bhuddist way) and everything becomes calm. It's mostly madness to think a girl selling herself for cash to men and having to act that she hangs on every often drunken word and loves that flabby body is going to feel a bloom of romance. We have fun, but the girls are WORKING. If they won the lottery or inheritance they would be instantly gone in a puff of smoke. I often wonder what it would be like to be in their skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? Would her handbag reluctantly opened and cash dispensed transform any of the above?

We are meeting for a bit of fun for ourselves, FKK's and brothels are a consensual movie set between willing actors, we are the producers and directors of sorts and the girls are working. They may derive some satisfaction over their effect on us as a sort of feminine power versus our wanting our script to play out, but in the end it comes down to what psychological health we have off the movie set and in our heads, a sand castle on a beach or a brick house on the hill. We sure are not going to find that in shopping malls, the internet or FKK's.

Now, back to scoring the hottest young actresses for some harmless and consensual fun !

[Chongmal]

The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.

I'm sure this is exactly what the 22 yo prostitute was thinking.

Or perhaps she was thinking like Mr Ho. Why would she want to have a relationship with a man who went to prostitutes and paid them for sex. Her honest approach that she will not allow men from her professional job to cross into her personal life may seem harsh or mechanical. Of course, I've never had the problem where every prostitute I slept with automatically forgot all other men, past and future, because I'm so amazing.

It gets comical when the posters here feel they have to analyze every post by anyone except their two friends and prove their own superiority. Please, in responding, use something other than Machiavellian or Orwellian comparisons. How some people write here seems as though they are employing these beliefs to pump their egos up on a sex forum. Let's find some new idols that have sexual relevance: Freud, Shakespeare, Chaucer. Anybody but please stop with the continual recycling. Anyone who cared to know about Machiavellianism or Orwellian theories has already looked them up. Those who don't care to know are probably the same ones that skip your writings along with skipping the writings by the men who have sexual super powers they use to seduce a prostitute and bang her so hard she has to take the night off afterwards.

I challenge you to think outside the "Box" and to come up with something new. My new campaign motto is Make Sauna Clubs Great Again.

My last challenge is for someone who has been to a FKK to write about your experiences. Hiking on nature trails, participating in sports activities, sitting around the picnic tables eating lunch while everyone is nude. This is what FKK is about. Not visiting a sex club.

[Optimist]

The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.

If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.

A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.

Well put. You are on form today!

[Nick The G]

I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes

The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.

If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.

A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.

[Nick The G]

What do we want to become?

Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.

Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?

What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?

https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces.../dp/1577315936

Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL!

[Optimist]

So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.

I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.

Nice thoughts. These issues are too complex to be effectively discussed in a forum, but you have a decent attempt at a succinct summary here.

The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.

As for why men go to brothels you are right, a little bit of introspection does not go amiss. It is not just about the fucking, but about illusions, remedies for problems, societal pressures, and emotional and mental needs.

I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes

[Pistons]

What do we want to become?

Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.

Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?

Only if one has a small one. I would rather increase the number of sensors on the willy. Stretch the head further back, and get a stronger frenulum. I would only increase the length if something is also done to the female's organs.

Lets hope we get there sooner than later. But I think we might see a drastic reduction of the total world population in total numbers before then. And that might take so long before we get there that perhaps none of us here will get the benefits. Maybe an AI singularity event is our only hope of seeing it for ourselves.