Good insight.

[LilJoey]

I'm in Kiev for the 3rd time this week. It's like summer here, short dresses everywhere.)

Well, I've sent dozen of messages on mamba prior to my trip and I will see a couple of girls + an old sexy friend. BTW, who's that Olya that you guys talk about?

Anyhow, I've been to Rio also, the line up was not so bad, I know that LJ is shilling for Rio but he's right on the description of the girls and this is a nice place to have a beer before going out. I saw many 6s, several 7s and some 8s, the only 9 that I saw that night was on my way to Rio, gorgeous blonde on the street, no english. The. Niet. Shit. Bye.

Rio's Sofia was a 9 on my first trip last year but now she has gained weight and she's working too much, down to a 8, still has her amazing tits and beautiful blue eyes though. Leya is pretty but no english, Margarita is sexy but no take out. I don't remember the 7s names, some were nice but that was not enough for me to take out a girl at 300$. Haven't seen Katya or Leela.

Yesterday, I invited a girl that I've met at Buddha during my last stay, great body cute face, worth the 200$ for 2 hours.

Tonight, I'm going out in clubs looking for freebies. I may go to Odessa next week, I still don't know with which girl.

I am not, nor have I ever "shilled" for any venue. That is a slander started by a poster who had an ulterior agenda. You can read all about it in the separate thread established by the Administrator. I am not shilling for having an opinion that the girls at Rio are pretty hot, any more than you are shilling when you write that same opinion. I have explained my opinion many times. Why can't you and others understand that having an opinion does not make one a shill. Furthermore, my opinion is based on facts and logical conclusions. If you want to dispute me, please do not resort to calling me names to discredit the honesty of my opinions. Please simply debate the facts, or explain why you disagree with my opinion. Is that too much to ask?

My opinion in a nutshell was that I did not care to waste so much time on mamba girls which were not guaranteed to be very hot girls coming to your apartment, and that I preferred venues where I could see the girls in advance, which was the nightclubs and the strip clubs. When I compared the scene at the nightclubs to the strip clubs, I saw that at the time Rio strip club had the cheapest rates in 2011. Those are the reported facts in this forum. Nightclub girls were asking $400 and above, and the lowest reported rates were $300/2hours. Rio was cheaper. Am I a shill for preferring the cheaper venue or merely pointing it out? Also in the nightclubs it wasn't so easy to find which girls were the Working Girls and then to negotiate which took a lot of time. So I saw that it was simpler and quicker at Rio. Am I a shill for choosing the location which made finding a hot girl for p4p to take home to my bed much easier and quicker than at the nightclub? Obviously not. I'm simply choosing to monger where it made most sense for my purposes on a short weekend visit, when I had the budget that would allow me to have fun with very hot young girls. Gia-escort was never a consideration for me because their girls didn't appeal to me.

Now, since I haven't been in the nightclubs for a while, I didn't know for sure the current rates for the hottest girls in the nightclubs. So when I read in 2012 recently that Cruiser D, whom I trust on this, was reporting nightclub girl prices had gone down to $200/2hours, or even less for the hottest girls too, then based on that, my opinion changed as to where is the best place to try to get a hot girl for p4p, and I have written that I intend to try first at the nightclubs, because even though it is still not as efficient as at the strip club, nevertheless the price differential is too significant to ignore, and I regard it as similar to when the River Palace was in existence. I usually never paid more than $200 at the River Palace and was ok with the waiting game that one had to go through until the hottest girls would come down in price. So I can deal with the searching out of the Working Girls at the nightclubs too. The strip clubs will always be there as a back up, if I don't succeed at getting a hottie for the lower prices that are now reported as possible. That's not the opinion of a shill either. Just a logical decision based on the facts on the ground. So please cut out the offensive name calling. It does a disservice to truth.

And by the way, I also like Sophia very much, and met with her recently on Sunday April 1, and She was great as usual, and I got bb BJ but it did cost more money.

Leela Is smokin' hot. I saw Her April 2 and 3. I wonder where she's gone to? Another member (ronaldinjo) also said he did not see her at club.

LJ

[GreyGoose69]

I'm in Kiev for the 3rd time this week. It's like summer here, short dresses everywhere.)

Well, I've sent dozen of messages on mamba prior to my trip and I will see a couple of girls + an old sexy friend. BTW, who's that Olya that you guys talk about?

Anyhow, I've been to Rio also, the line up was not so bad, I know that LJ is shilling for Rio but he's right on the description of the girls and this is a nice place to have a beer before going out. I saw many 6s, several 7s and some 8s, the only 9 that I saw that night was on my way to Rio, gorgeous blonde on the street, no english. The. Niet. Shit. Bye.

Rio's Sofia was a 9 on my first trip last year but now she has gained weight and she's working too much, down to a 8, still has her amazing tits and beautiful blue eyes though. Leya is pretty but no english, Margarita is sexy but no take out. I don't remember the 7s names, some were nice but that was not enough for me to take out a girl at 300$. Haven't seen Katya or Leela.

Yesterday, I invited a girl that I've met at Buddha during my last stay, great body cute face, worth the 200$ for 2 hours.

Tonight, I'm going out in clubs looking for freebies. I may go to Odessa next week, I still don't know with which girl.

[Kirch]

Haha! Totally right, they are served on a platter. That's may be the reason.

So I made my decision. I arrived today and have only tonight before my "girl friend" comes. So I booked my driver who charges USD 15 an hour and doing ALL of the clubs! The only way to find out.

So what you are asking for is a pile of women served to you on a platter. Sorry, but that venue known as River Palace no longer exists and it was not replaced by Rio nightclub.

[Kirch]

I have been to those clubs and as far as I know and noticed (of course) not all of them are for "take out". Had some bad experience at Deluxe asking the wrong girl how much it is and got a slap in my face. And I was sure she is professional. Same thing at Cavalli in Dubai all the time. Some professionals and rest not. That's actually the only reason.

And I won't say anything more about Rio here.

You give no reason why you won't go to BB, VB, Shooters or D'Lux? Are the girls there not good enough for you? It's hardly more expensive than strip club. Is there some hidden agenda behind your question? Maybe not, but then you must explain yourself better. But don't start this fight over Rio again in the forum. And to (try to) answere your question, you could go into the bar at Lybid hotel, there I have seen several girls and they want 200$ for two hours. It is easy to stop by and ave a look. There is even a small booth there where you can have private dance. I have visited other strip clubs and forgot about it completely. I. O. W, not to be recommended.

[Member #4491]

her name is starts with an n and number ends with 973. if you are interested i will pm you the number. dog breath and yellow teeth but a good teenage ass that i fucked twice when she visited me. she responded better after a glass of wine.

[message to admin deleted]

lj, lemming go to one spot / area. i and the ones of us that will avoid one club are rep001tering all over kiev. backfiring analogy? just relax man, and please leave it be. we are all entitled to have an opinion on a club and you do not have to take it personally if i do not agree with you. i asked if the frequency of bitchy attitude is not higher amongst the "good looking" strippers in rio, but never mind. i know that it is so in most other places, so no need to elaborate. just try to stay on topic if you do address my posts here. you only win loneliness by skewing things with 1000000 words, joey. the more enemies you make in your quest to promote something, the less trustworthy you will come across to be. i have no problems with your posts. i just do not agree. just chill and go where you want. over and out from me on that.

a strip bar is not even a fall back for me anywhere in the world. but i know many people here will never say anything negative about their favorite spots, for various reasons. blink. i am not a slim brad pit but there are still options everywhere in kiev. no need to always eat an an over priced mcdonalds. especially if you are not allowed to only lick on the packaging of the burger. but this is just barba's opinion that i share to create some balance here. (lj, please do not take it personally.)

for me is is also about how genuine a place is. i consider a strip club a totally in-genuine (is that a word?) place. if i visit a country, i want to be amongst people and a local and genuine culture, at least the moments i get a chance. if we look at a axis where hard core pros are far to the right and religious marriage girls are far to the left, i want to be around the middle. even if we tilt to the right, we are still within that cultures (read "many cultures") sponsor concept between men and women, and the females that will be in this environment will logically be less mentally corrupt than the ones far out on either side. i avoid the extremes in a normal distribution a statistician would say. illusion is the first of pleasures someone else said, and my illusion breaks within minutes of entering a strip club normally. it is simply a negative energy field for me and a total waste of my precious time unless i have some friends with me to talk to. this is not a continuations on the rio war. just my thoughts on my own modus operandi. no need to defend things (lj et al.)

pedrotoronja said it! guys, read up on the unbalance between women and men in ukraine, and then make your own conclusions to what you need to do to get laid. it was even an article in the inflight magazine of aerosvit. they mentioned that there was less men than women and that the amount of "marriageable men" where even less; hence making the dating sites a very good option for many females. i do not remember the numbers but i was surprised. i never saw that in an inflight magazine before.

barba

editor's note: this report was edited to remove a message directed to the forum admin.

the open forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the forum administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the forum. instead, please use the contact us link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the forum, and i will respond as quickly as possible. thanks!

[Guntherus]

You give no reason why you won't go to BB, VB, Shooters or D'Lux? Are the girls there not good enough for you? It's hardly more expensive than strip club. Is there some hidden agenda behind your question? Maybe not, but then you must explain yourself better. But don't start this fight over Rio again in the forum. And to (try to) answere your question, you could go into the bar at Lybid hotel, there I have seen several girls and they want 200$ for two hours. It is easy to stop by and ave a look. There is even a small booth there where you can have private dance. I have visited other strip clubs and forgot about it completely. I. O. W, not to be recommended.

So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?

[Climaxnow]

So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?

So what you are asking for is a pile of women served to you on a platter. Sorry, but that venue known as River Palace no longer exists and it was not replaced by Rio nightclub.

[Member #4491]

her name is starts with an n and number ends with 973. if you are interested i will pm you the number. dog breath and yellow teeth but a good teenage ass that i fucked twice when she visited me. she responded better after a glass of wine.

[message to admin deleted]

lj, lemming go to one spot / area. i and the ones of us that will avoid one club are rep001tering all over kiev. backfiring analogy? just relax man, and please leave it be. we are all entitled to have an opinion on a club and you do not have to take it personally if i do not agree with you. i asked if the frequency of bitchy attitude is not higher amongst the "good looking" strippers in rio, but never mind. i know that it is so in most other places, so no need to elaborate. just try to stay on topic if you do address my posts here. you only win loneliness by skewing things with 1000000 words, joey. the more enemies you make in your quest to promote something, the less trustworthy you will come across to be. i have no problems with your posts. i just do not agree. just chill and go where you want. over and out from me on that.

a strip bar is not even a fall back for me anywhere in the world. but i know many people here will never say anything negative about their favorite spots, for various reasons. blink. i am not a slim brad pit but there are still options everywhere in kiev. no need to always eat an an over priced mcdonalds. especially if you are not allowed to only lick on the packaging of the burger. but this is just barba's opinion that i share to create some balance here. (lj, please do not take it personally.)

for me is is also about how genuine a place is. i consider a strip club a totally in-genuine (is that a word?) place. if i visit a country, i want to be amongst people and a local and genuine culture, at least the moments i get a chance. if we look at a axis where hard core pros are far to the right and religious marriage girls are far to the left, i want to be around the middle. even if we tilt to the right, we are still within that cultures (read "many cultures") sponsor concept between men and women, and the females that will be in this environment will logically be less mentally corrupt than the ones far out on either side. i avoid the extremes in a normal distribution a statistician would say. illusion is the first of pleasures someone else said, and my illusion breaks within minutes of entering a strip club normally. it is simply a negative energy field for me and a total waste of my precious time unless i have some friends with me to talk to. this is not a continuations on the rio war. just my thoughts on my own modus operandi. no need to defend things (lj et al.)

pedrotoronja said it! guys, read up on the unbalance between women and men in ukraine, and then make your own conclusions to what you need to do to get laid. it was even an article in the inflight magazine of aerosvit. they mentioned that there was less men than women and that the amount of "marriageable men" where even less; hence making the dating sites a very good option for many females. i do not remember the numbers but i was surprised. i never saw that in an inflight magazine before.

barba

editor's note: this report was edited to remove a message directed to the forum admin.

the open forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the forum administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the forum. instead, please use the contact us link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the forum, and i will respond as quickly as possible. thanks!

[LilJoey]

Amen to that! I will avoid Rio until the owners starts to pay an advertisement fee to Jackson. ISG is used to promote Rio before EURO2012.

LJ, you still did not comment on my post in the other thread. I am mostly curious to if you do not get an unbalanced amount of shitty attitude from these stunners you are hunting?

B.

PS.

Yes yes I know, Barba could not stay away. The things I would not do to avoid work.

Maybe you forgive me if I post a picture of this ass that I am sure more than me drilled? Yes I can share her details but I do not recommend her unless you are desperate to fuck some teenage ass.

DS

Barba, your post quoting Climaxnow's baseless accusation that the ISG forum was hijacked to promote Rio and that you will stay away from Rio, should have been posted in the other thread Jackson created for that BS. My response to your intent to "stay away" from any venue for a baseless reason, is that you seem to be too willing to join the lemmings as they illogically jump off the cliffs. It is behavior that makes no sense. (note: I read the Wikipedia article about lemmings which states that the whole idea about the lemmings committing mass suicide by jumping off cliffs is not true, but was created and popularized by certain theatrical productions since the 1950's. Nevertheless, the imagery is apt for the purposes of the metaphor of a mindless act to the detriment of the actor).

Regarding your second statement that I didn't respond to your post, I thought I did. You had asked me about the covered DATY, and I explained to you in detail that DATY is enjoyable for me to do to a pretty girl whether natural uncovered or even covered, because my major enjoyment derived from giving a girl DATY was from the arousal I get when I see how she is affected. I love how her body begins to respond to the intense pleasure she is feeling as my tongue strikes and caresses repeatedly against and around her clitoris (this works even through the latex, since the lubrication applied previously allows her clitoris to slide around in response to the movements of my tongue) and watching how her arousal builds, hearing her moans of pleasure, and ultimately the shudders and convulsions of her body as she reaches a powerful orgasm. So even though covered is not as much fun as covered DATY, it nevertheless is something I enjoy doing to a pretty girl, and it has side benefits, in that any girl whom I pleasure in that fashion, is way more likely to return the favor to me, and to treat me in a much more GFE manner. DATY has the power to "break the ice" between a man and a woman in a p4p situation, where they are essentially strangers, having met just shortly before. It launches the girl into a fun and sexual place, and the rest of the session proceeds at a much higher level, usually.

In the post that you made following that response, I didn't detect a new question. But if you want a response to your feeling that a pretty girl with a shitty attitude is not desired by you, I would say that I entirely agree. That is what the all important interview process is for. Weeding out pretty girls with bad attitudes from consideration. This applies to all girls, no matter where I meet them, whether it be in Rio strip club or in D'lux nightclub. I put forward a very friendly demeanor toward the girl, and if she responds in a sweet way, then things proceed. If she shows any signs of being an ice queen or bitchy or demanding in any way, I reject her from consideration and move on to the next possibility. Therefore, I never took out any girl who didn't respond very warmly and sexually during private dances I had with them at Rio (where you can really check out if a girl has any good chemistry with you) or in conversation I had with them in any club or location. I only took to my apartment girls who were very pretty and who had shown the capacity for sweetness and GFE in all our interactions until that point. So I preserved myself from the pretty girl you described with the shitty attitude. She was rejected as soon as her negativity was detected at the first instance.

LJ

[Kirch]

So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?

[Muddy7]

Anyone who flies from the US to Kiev just for RIO and thinks is getting a good deal there is a retard

[PedroToronja]

Besides Richelieu, Monaco (avoid oysters) , Buddah Bar for sushi upstairs in plain view of the escorts, the Vinci Fish Market, Stephanos, Leo, all great. Second tier Ciro Pomodoro, Concorde, Deja Vue, even Il Patio. I would not venture too far beyond those as getting food poisoning is an almost daily occurrence Ukraine, even for locals.

Repriza and Volkonsky are by far the best coffee places / bakeries. Volko has WiFi and very sophisticated crowd, great service and bakery. You may even have lunch or diner there, but is not great. Women there (civilians, rich) are absolutely amazing and dressed like I never saw a girl in the USA or anywhere else dress. Those are daughters / wifes / lovers of oligarchs and are loaded with money. There are iPhones and iPads at every table there, it appears that it is a requirement to have them to get served (kidding).

Rio used to have a casino, but they closed most of them in Kiev (you can still go have your money ripped off your pockets at the casino at Premier Palace). I went once to their strip joint and I hated it. Yes, the girls are cute but very cold and appear to be afraid of the managers, some guys that walk the place (as in many places in former Soviet Union) as bad asses, looking very serious, almost menacing, KGB wannabes or maybe worst, former KGB police. The place appeared intimidating, cold, severe. I got a girl to give me some lap dances in a little cubicle with a curtain for 'privacy'. While she was completely naked, I could not put my fingers where I wanted. I did not like it at all and never went back. Again, that was just one visit about 2 years ago. Maybe is different now.

They used to have a poker club at Arena. 2nd floor. I did go and played there. It was good and people were friendly. At another time I approached a table with just 3 players that invited me to sit. Those guys were loaded with gold chains and threw $100 chips like if they were dimes. Of course I did not sit there, but watched for a while. They treated the dealer like shit. When they had bad hands, they will throw them at the dealer and I think they cursed them (I don't speak Russian).

I can't read Russian people very well. Most men appear to be mad all the time, but when you talk to them and maybe joke, they become very friendly, they disarm. I think it is their protective armor.

Women always smile and giggle but it does not mean they want you to kiss them. Be careful reading too much into their smiles. They are often just polite.

Regarding Mamba and that 'dating' tool when you invite for coffee, etc. Anyone knows how I can initiate such? Offering to pick up the tab for anyone who shows up may be dangerous.

Overall, I think Ukrainian women are extraordinary. If I had to 'do it all again', I would marry one. No doubt in my mind. The fact that some (real minority) are either fulltime working girls or just civilians complementing their income, does not speak for most of them which are very family oriented, still beautiful, protective of their children, very well educated and mannered, hard working and humble. This is true, I have more knowledge of UA women on a professional and friendly setting that on my double life as a mongerer.

I go there again this Saturday. If you are there and want to hang out, let me know.

[Climaxnow]

All this boring fight about just 1 club in Kiev, is astonishing. May I ask the critics to offer an alternative? As far as I know, and after having done some research myself, I think Río is the best quality / price strip club in Kiev. None of the other ones I have visited (or read about) have so many girls, nice music, professional staff. The others have similar prices, less girls, and most of the times less beautiful, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Rio is dollar for dollar the worse value in Kiev. It is a dead end venue where you can make no friends. If the girls are caught with a customer on the side they will be immediately fired. If you seek alternatives, may I suggest that you RTFF.

[LilJoey]

thank you liljoey. i appreciate your insight.

you mention that cruiser d has some useful postings about pickup places, etc. this forum is huge and i would have to spend hours finding those postings, can you send me a link to one of them perhaps please?

since you want me to share, there i go. i visited ua for the first time 6 years ago and i went crazy with the beauty of the girls. at the time i met a couple of them from gia and some other 'masseuses' from kiev post, the english newspaper (a very good one!) that used to place such adds back then. i have a small business and i placed ads online in ua to offshore administrative work there, so i had an opportunity to continue visiting. i also saved a ton of money on salaries. i hired some online workers there about 5 years ago, and since then i have been going 5 to 7 times per year. i don't sh. t where i eat, so i don't play with my employees. (i tried, i could not help it, and it was a disaster. every time!).

about 3 years ago i started placing ads for a 'private personal assistant' in kiev. is a long story, but i have now one 'official' gf in ua, for 2 years already. i am older than her dad, and what sucks is that she is wonderful and truly loves me. being a dog, i can't limit myself to one girl, when there are so many amazing women around. so i am constantly hunting and i find myself cheating in a second degree: first on my wife (which i love to pieces) , then on my gf (for whom i also have feelings) , with girls i get now and then.

of interest to you and others may be the girls on met-art. com. most are from ua, and while their names are fake and you can't find them, the photographer's name is real.

i befriended a photographer who has his own website on his own name, a very nice guy. i went with him, a videographer and a 4 of his models, in two cars, to yalta in winter, for a photo-shoot. i became completely crazy madly in love with one of those girls (the one i liked on the site and i connected by her photographer, now my friend). yes, i paid for most of the gas, food, etc. of that trip south, but. it was worth it ten times over. the experience of a life time, hallucinating. so much so, that on day 3 i just could not handle it anymore and left back to kiev. during the shooting the girls are kind of shy and they don't allow to be right there, ogling. from a distance, yes. anyway, it was too much for me to handle. i jumped 'into the tv' so to speak: the girls i was admiring online, now were around me, sharing the bedrooms (not the bed). back in kiev i did start dating the one i was completely crazy about, although she spoke not a word of english. i bought for about $300 a little translating machine: i type in english, she reads it in russian, and vice-versa. it was crazy but it was one of the best fucks of my life, if not the absolute best. btw, she was 20 and i was 62. personal trainer and plastic surgery make me look acceptable, but in no way you can seriosuly consider that this would work. and it did not. but it was fricken great!

in total, i slept with 3 girls from met-art. only once with the other two girls. memorable, but too complicated. they are not prostitutes, is a lot of work, very expensive at the end, and not worth all the time (when vertical or sitting).

anyway, on the days of river palace i went there several times. i was actually rejected by some 18 or 19 very hot but newbies chicks. my self-estime down the toilet. those are 100% wg, made me feel really, really old. by that time i also heard that the girls there were very mistrusting, because some had been recently kidnapped, raped and beat up. in one case, by the police themselves who dragged a girl to the precinct as a present to their boss on his birthday, and after him, the entire precinct raped her. i think that is possible. most wg when they come to the apartment they ask me to walk them back out to a car, to make sure the cops don't stop them to take their money. it appears that cops follow them from the clubs and when they leave your apartment they take their money.

as for arrests, i was told by an employee of mine that many times girls work together with a cop friend. the girl picks you up on a bar, invites you to smoke pot in some alley, the cop suddently appears, hits the girl a little to make it look real, and takes you to the atm to get the max from your card, plus your cash, not to arrest you. another trick i saw done in front of me many times in kiev is when a guy waking in front of you drops a clear plastic envelope with some money and a wallet inside. if you even touch it to pick it up and give to him, he will open the envelope and claim that you took hundreds of dollars that were in his wallet. a passerby (an accomplice) will vouch for that guy and a friend cop that 'happens' to show up will arrest you, etc. etc. to take all your money. everyone should be warned of this, as i saw it attempted on me several times.

i am always looking for more, of course, i am a guy. i had some very good pussy in kiev, but the best i got was in night flight in moscow, a few years ago. i went again 3 months ago and i was disappointed, but maybe is my mistake, i did not wait long enough for the best to arrive (past midnight). as i was walking out with two girls, a 6 and a 7 at best, i saw some 10's walking in. very expensive too.

in kiev many students and normal working girls need to supplement their income. their salaries are about 3, 000 grivnas a month, if they get paid and when they get paid. i am not sure where to pick them up though. in podol and everywhere they have the universities, but i feel like a predator by a kindergarten stopping and checking those chicks out, so i don't. i don't know where to meet them either. never went to vodka bar or sky bar, i will try next week. sorry i wrote so much, but this is a guy whose life was dedicated, first to being rejected by hot chicks while growing up, and now to make up for all i missed! with a vengeance. i live by the marquis de sade motto: every woman is fuckable and every man is obligated to try! amen.

very interesting read, pedro. i identified with a lot of it. cruiser d didn't post any list of nightclubs that he likes. he just reassured me that it was possible to get very hot wg's for $200/2hrs. or less, a lower price than at the strip clubs. he said that all the nightclubs (recommended by others on this thread) were ok, but he said to stay away from buddha bar for this. i wish he would go into more detail on the nightclub scene, but so far he hasn't posted anything very detailed about this topic recently. there are posts by others advocating one venue or the other. check out me and you's post on where he was successful. some of the nightclubs or bars have made it onto the map prepared by romanystar. i liked the look and vibe of the club and the people at d'lux, one of the hottest clubs in kiev, although it's probably not so good for mongering for less expensive girls there. but i enjoyed the music and dj and the whole vibe of the club. the wg's are reported to be hanging mostly at the bar area, not the dance floor where i spent a lot of my time there. this probably explains why i didn't speak with any wg's when i went to d'lux. next time i go i will hang out at the bar more and return all eye contacts. before my next trip, i plan to make a through search of the thread for names of venues i haven't heard of yet.

if you went to night flight in moscow and were prepared to spend the high prices there for a beautiful girl, then you should probably check out the strip clubs which have take out for prices much lower than what you paid at night flight. i have written extensively on the lowest priced of them, rio ($300/3hrs). mandarin is supposed to soon open. dolls, a new club, is slightly more expensive than rio ($300/2hrs). the other strip clubs that have take out ask $400/2hrs. look up reports by theknight. but as of recent reports, you can get much lower prices than these in the nightclubs.

[LilJoey]

By the way Lj, I asked all Rio managers about Leela and Vladislava, they didn't have slightest idea who those girls are. There was one tall blond Stanislava. Are you sure you pronounced correctly the names?

Ronaldinjo, I am perplexed by what you write, that you asked a manager and he did not know who Leela was? She has worked at the club for quite a while. It seems strange that they tell you they don't know her. Yet there are very many girls there, and some managers are new also. Which manager did you ask?

Here is there description again. You can also ask the waitresses about a girl's name. Leela has been working in the club many months. I took note of her sexy, pretty look during one of my trips last year. She was always busy, do I never got to her until my most recent visit and the dates we had on April 2 and April 3. She has a very pretty face and light brown hair, with awesome curves and a very sexy body. Speaks English well.

Vladislava I first saw at the club on April 3. She was pointed out to me by Leela who was sitting with me in the VIP room. Vladislava is definitely her name, is she herself said it on video clip I took, and so I'm certain about the name she gave me. Vladislava is tall, slim, very sexy body, jet black hair, with very pretty face and eyes. She speaks English, but with that heavy Slavic accent. She smiles a lot and has an awesome smile as well.

The duo date I had with these two girls was absolutely awesome. It's up there as one of my all time favorites (ATF's)

Keep trying. Maybe the managers don't know you enough, so they don't disclose as much. If you see either of these girls, let me know.