Vientiane

[Red Kilt]

FWIW, I met a cute and attentive Lao lady at one of the many massage places and we exchanged numbers. Although her attention to my needs in the shop always required a tip, she also visited me several times in my hotel and never wanted cash. She also came straight to my room, no WOS or awkward waiting for me at the reception.

I imagine that if a Lao national feels comfortable visiting a farang, in his room, and very clearly outside of wedlock, then perhaps the law is no longer applied so strictly.

It's an outdated post from MM but your views still hold.

As each month passes and Laos becomes more connected internationally, there is less of a problem about the "old laws", but you should still be careful.

[Chacal60]

FWIW, I met a cute and attentive Lao lady at one of the many massage places and we exchanged numbers. Although her attention to my needs in the shop always required a tip, she also visited me several times in my hotel and never wanted cash. She also came straight to my room, no WOS or awkward waiting for me at the reception.

I imagine that if a Lao national feels comfortable visiting a farang, in his room, and very clearly outside of wedlock, then perhaps the law is no longer applied so strictly.

YMMV, of course.

"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

If you plan to marry a Lao national, you are required by Lao law to obtain prior permission from the Lao government. The formal application process can take as long as a year. You can obtain information about these requirements from the USA Embassy in Vientiane. The Lao government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. Any attempt to circumvent Lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of 5005,000 USD and deportation. If you cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with a Lao national, you may be accused by Lao authorities of entering into an illegal marriage and be subject to these same penalties. If you wish to become engaged to a Lao national, you must also obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the Lao national resides. Failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of 5005,000 USD. Lao police may impose a large fine on a foreign citizen a few days after he or she holds an engagement ceremony with a Lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock."

Straight from the US state department, China and Vietnam I know have a cohabitation law as well and I know it is also enforced on occasion in China. But Laos is a special case and the reason why it gets such a large excerpt on the state departments website. The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.

[Member #4566]

Interestingly enough Mr Pomp I know a member of the NBI Philippines who happens to be a lurking member on ISG.

No need to be a senior member. He can log in here and read all posts and pick up all sorts of tid-bits of information.

Some guys make it easy for LE by going into detail.

No one is suggesting ISG is a "prime" source of information for LE but some people try very hard to incriminate themselves and others by documenting way too much information.

The supposed NBI agent was not practicing good tradecraft by informing you that he consults ISG. The rest of your post is more speculation, conjecture. Do you really believe that a foreigner, not speaking the language and in country for only a couple of weeks at the most, is more knowledgeable about the vice in Vientiane than a cop who was born and raised and whose full time job (year in and year out) is to know about illegal activity in their own backyard?

[Red Kilt]

If the cops in Laos want to pierce the veil of secrecy on the ISG, all they would have to is to impersonate a monger and become a senior member on ISG. They would then be able to get PM's and learn about all those places that Mr. Kilt wants us to be discreet about. Becoming a senior member can be done either by paying money or by making a certain number of posts which would automatically qualify him as a senior. If Laotian police are seriously intent on obtaining info from ISG members because they lack intel of their own, (which is patently absurd) then this would be an obvious plan.

Interestingly enough Mr Pomp I know a member of the NBI Philippines who happens to be a lurking member on ISG.

No need to be a senior member. He can log in here and read all posts and pick up all sorts of tid-bits of information.

Some guys make it easy for LE by going into detail.

No one is suggesting ISG is a "prime" source of information for LE but some people try very hard to incriminate themselves and others by documenting way too much information.

[Member #4566]

Thanks MM. You just reinforced my earlier post when I said that it it better to keep specific details OFF this open board. I suspect Pompetus is assuming Lao PDR is similar to other mongering. Thus my suggestion to be discreet about everything in Lao PDR, and when in doubt, go home alone.

If the cops in Laos want to pierce the veil of secrecy on the ISG, all they would have to is to impersonate a monger and become a senior member on ISG. They would then be able to get PM's and learn about all those places that Mr. Kilt wants us to be discreet about. Becoming a senior member can be done either by paying money or by making a certain number of posts which would automatically qualify him as a senior. If Laotian police are seriously intent on obtaining info from ISG members because they lack intel of their own, (which is patently absurd) then this would be an obvious plan.

Next, all of you should consult the blog for sillyporean mongers who plainly state info on the internet about farms and other interesting locations around Vientiane.

"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. Etc etc etc.
Straight from the US state department.

Every couple of years someone on ISG trots out this boilerplate from USDoS. But according to long term expats whom I have canvassed in Laos, this is only rarely enforced and only in those instances when some foreigner has done something egregious like living with three Lao women and fathering children with them.

Your post may not be entirely true, the reason being LE is always looking for the most viable and known establishments and keep an eye on them if a smaller proprietor is introduced to the general public it becomes somewhat of a problem, the advent of a new proprietor that is catering to foreigners may or may not pay for the luxury of entertaining foreigners and taking away business from one of the better known proprietors which can be run by generals or other extremely connected individuals. So yes LE is well aware of all of these establishments in fact they are in a lot of cases run by LE, however they need to know if foreigners are frequenting establishments that are not kicking up large enough bribes or are not connected to the LE itself. So if a local connected to one of the mafia run establishments has a tip on another place frequented by foreigners and this site confirms that information it could then be used to strengthen the mafia monopoly via legal or not so legal means. You seem to post in the Philippines but Phils and Laos are two different animals entirely. In Laos the only thing that matters is foreigner perception of propriety do a search for Laos Porn and Philippines girl porn. You have a lot to learn about mongering in such destinations. You have some grave misconceptions of how and why LE does and doesn't act on some brothels. Red Kilt's reticence is warranted in in this case.

Would you please advise the source of your knowledge? Quite frankly, what you have posted appears to be complete speculation: Laotian mafia, and stating authoritatively that they receive tips and verify them by consulting ISG. Let's get real. As far as establishing my experience in SE Asia, all you have relied on is the scope of my posts on ISG. How can you base your conclusions about where I have been and what I have done based on that? If that is the quality of your research on me then it speaks reams about the reliability of what you have posted regarding the reliability of your posts on Laos.

[Red Kilt]

<SNIP> The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.

Thanks MM. You just reinforced my earlier post when I said that it it better to keep specific details OFF this open board. I suspect Pompetus is assuming Lao PDR is similar to other mongering destinations when we all know that it's not.

I have discussed law & order issues with massage shop managers and I disagree that Lao LE knows everything about what goes on everywhere, but there is no way any disagreements can be easily resolved either.

Thus my suggestion to be discreet about everything in Lao PDR, and when in doubt, go home alone.

[Member #4794]

Let's give them more credit than that and let's not give ourselves credit for knowing more than the average man in the street in Vientiane.

"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

If you plan to marry a Lao national, you are required by Lao law to obtain prior permission from the Lao government. The formal application process can take as long as a year. You can obtain information about these requirements from the USA Embassy in Vientiane. The Lao government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. Any attempt to circumvent Lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of 500–5,000 USD and deportation. If you cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with a Lao national, you may be accused by Lao authorities of entering into an illegal marriage and be subject to these same penalties. If you wish to become engaged to a Lao national, you must also obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the Lao national resides. Failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of 500–5,000 USD. Lao police may impose a large fine on a foreign citizen a few days after he or she holds an engagement ceremony with a Lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock."

Straight from the US state department, China and Vietnam I know have a cohabitation law as well and I know it is also enforced on occasion in China. But Laos is a special case and the reason why it gets such a large excerpt on the state departments website. The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.

[Member #4794]

I doubt that the Laotian police need to go to a foreigner's website to track illegal activity in their own backyards. That a foreigners knowledge of Laos is very weak is a matter which is beyond debate. The police who live, grew up in Laos, and speak the language will not need to consult ISG to find where the action is. Let's give them more credit than that and let's not give ourselves credit for knowing more than the average man in the street in Vientiane. When I was in Laos the action pretty much in the open but discreet and not in your face.

Your post may not be entirely true, the reason being LE is always looking for the most viable and known establishments and keep an eye on them if a smaller proprietor is introduced to the general public it becomes somewhat of a problem, the advent of a new proprietor that is catering to foreigners may or may not pay for the luxury of entertaining foreigners and taking away business from one of the better known proprietors which can be run by generals or other extremely connected individuals. So yes LE is well aware of all of these establishments in fact they are in a lot of cases run by LE, however they need to know if foreigners are frequenting establishments that are not kicking up large enough bribes or are not connected to the LE itself. So if a local connected to one of the mafia run establishments has a tip on another place frequented by foreigners and this site confirms that information it could then be used to strengthen the mafia monopoly via legal or not so legal means. You seem to post in the Philippines but Phils and Laos are two different animals entirely. In Laos the only thing that matters is foreigner perception of propriety do a search for Laos Porn and Philippines girl porn. You have a lot to learn about mongering in such destinations. You have some grave misconceptions of how and why LE does and doesn't act on some brothels.

Red Kilt's reticence is warranted in in this case.

[Member #4566]

You are not going to get that information on the open board Banny.

You need to join the site by paying $25 so that you can receive private messages (PMs).

You cannot receive PMs unless you're a member.

By definition, underground places operate outside the law. Services like this are illegal.

There are several massage places that are very "normal" on the surface but they will offer lots of extras once they know you are a genuine customer. I an maybe others would share the names of these places by PM only.

I doubt that the Laotian police need to go to a foreigner's website to track illegal activity in their own backyards. That a foreigners knowledge of Laos is very weak is a matter which is beyond debate. The police who live, grew up in Laos, and speak the language will not need to consult ISG to find where the action is. Let's give them more credit than that and let's not give ourselves credit for knowing more than the average man in the street in Vientiane. When I was in Laos the action pretty much in the open but discreet and not in your face.

[Red Kilt]

Hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum. I went to Vientiane two years ago and soon I will be there again. When I was there I went in two underground brothel. The tuk tuk drivers took me there. I paid 1300 bat for lady and room, but the ladies was very untrained and shy, and gave me a bad services. Who can give me some advice for find some brothel or massage shop where at least I'm sure to have a blowjob? Before every ladies refused to make blowjobs.

You are not going to get that information on the open board Banny.

You need to join the site by paying $25 so that you can receive private messages (PMs).

You cannot receive PMs unless you're a member.

By definition, underground places operate outside the law. Services like this are illegal.

There are several massage places that are very "normal" on the surface but they will offer lots of extras once they know you are a genuine customer. I an maybe others would share the names of these places by PM only.

[Banny76]

Hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum. I went to Vientiane two years ago and soon I will be there again. When I was there I went in two underground brothel. The tuk tuk drivers took me there. I paid 1300 bat for lady and room, but the ladies was very untrained and shy, and gave me a bad services. Who can give me some advice for find some brothel or massage shop where at least I'm sure to have a blowjob? Before every ladies refused to make blowjobs.

[Red Kilt]

Before arriving in Vientiane, I had three women in Vietnam, two that were determined to snuff out all satisfaction and one that was very, very good. Today at VTP massage, I chose another Vietnamese from about 10 ladies at 3 pm. She was a solid 7 in her early 30's, although the big boobs that pulled me in turned out to be a testament to superb bra engineering. I agreed with mamasan for 60 min of "everything" for 530 k, the going rate. What I got was a utilitarian massage, vigorous HJ, CBJ, and a vehement refusal on DATY while she tried to mount my limp dick in CG. I called foul, dressed, and told mamasan either I get that full service with another lady or 400 k back. I left with my money and the phenomenal realization that in just six days, I'll be back in Thailand. I am older American with no foreign language skills so YMMV; at least, I hope so.

Bad luck Canick.

If you go back to Post #82 you will see some discussion about "hit or miss" massages in Vientiane, and the general consensus is that there are more "hits" than "misses" at VTP.

You did well to get the 400,000 kip back though. Doing that might make the mamasans pay more attention to what's going on.

[Canick1]

Before arriving in Vientiane, I had three women in Vietnam, two that were determined to snuff out all satisfaction and one that was very, very good. Today at VTP massage, I chose another Vietnamese from about 10 ladies at 3 pm. She was a solid 7 in her early 30's, although the big boobs that pulled me in turned out to be a testament to superb bra engineering. I agreed with mamasan for 60 min of "everything" for 530 k, the going rate. What I got was a utilitarian massage, vigorous HJ, CBJ, and a vehement refusal on DATY while she tried to mount my limp dick in CG. I called foul, dressed, and told mamasan either I get that full service with another lady or 400 k back. I left with my money and the phenomenal realization that in just six days, I'll be back in Thailand. I am older American with no foreign language skills so YMMV; at least, I hope so.

[Haktivah]

Is there any friend still in Vientiane?

I'm now going there and would like to get more information about local chicken farm rather than hotel pickup like la Ong Dao.

Is there any specific information about chicken farm in Vientiane that may not be inside city?

Thanks for sharing!

[Optional]

I'm heading to Luang Prabang and Vientiane for a short trip next week. Anyone else on this forum going to be there? Would be great to meet up and check out the Chicken Farm together! PM me.

P.S. - sorry for posting in both this forum and "Other Areas", but since I was going to both VT and LP, I figured I would post in both.