Any Updates on the new law and the clubs Venus, F39

[SvenFKK]

I'm not sure if that is even possible. The right of "data protection" outweighs any and all wishes of any BureauKraut about fining someone for a misdemeanor.

This is simply not true. While German data protection is relatively strong (too strong, in my opinion, but that's another story), police can and do get information from ISPs etc when it is needed to track down a crime. Rightly, in my view. (Whether AO should be a crime is a separate discussion. One should not cry for data protection when it protects one's own illegal activities, but rather work to convince people to change the laws.) It is routinely done for file sharers, which in most cases is probably a misdimeanor. In the case of AO, one could be charged with a high crime as well, such as supporting trafficking. Whether or not that is correct is beside the point. Or, the law could be changed to make AO worse than a misdemeanor.

[SvenFKK]

I am surprised that Freier cafe which prides itself on providing free speech should cave in so meekly and spinelessly to the proposed law. Shouldn't they should be championing free speech about the proposed law rather than coming up with lots of hypothetical reasons why they can't allow any discussion about AO at all?

Regardless of what one thinks about either one, let's compare it to something else which is illegal. Running a forum discussing the pros and cons of possibly changing a law falls under free speech. Running a forum to aid and abet people breaking the law does not.

I can freely discuss whether tax laws should be changed. That is covered by free speech. Providing a forum where information is exchanged about how best to avoid taxes, illegally, is not.

[Member #4359]

The impact of the law depends on whether lots of other guys react the way I am: I'm scheduling my next trip elsewhere when originally I had intended to return to Germany. I would rather go where I know I can get what I want.

[SwingerLover]

the authorities will be monitoring from now on those who carry on as before even though the new law is not yet active.

Freier cafe are concerned that from forum reports on the internet the authorities will be able to identify those AO providers (girls and clubs) who are likely to be transgressing the law when it comes into place. They will then target them going forward.

That might actually happen. Which means that all reports about stuff that will continue despite any law can NOT be reported about anymore on any open forum, including ISG, if you want said "stuff" to continue. I for one will stop posting anything at all about anybody, should I get the impression that my info might be used to raid the place.

So while AO and flatrate will definitely continue, even if it has to move "underground" or even into illegality, reporting about it might stop immediately as soon as the law is put in effect. If it IS put in effect.

Freier cafe does not want to be guilty of providing the information (via their internet forum) which the authorities would be able to use to identify individuals or clubs to pursue. They fear that the authorities may even force Freier cafe to hand over details of IP addresses and other internet evidence which could lead to individuals (forum readers and AO providers) being identified.

I'm not sure if that is even possible. The right of "data protection" outweighs any and all wishes of any BureauKraut about fining someone for a misdemeanor.

Transgressors could be fined

Not solely based on a forum entry. Anybody could claim that they were only bragging and lying on the forum. So there's no way to actually prove transgressions. Unless someone is stupid enough to admit to it.

Freier cafe also seem to be saying that the authorities will require clubs to pass an aptitude test before the clubs get a licence to practice. If the girls in a club have been known to be openly providing AO in the year leading up to the law coming into force then that club will probably not get a licence. Probably explains why the clubs are cleaning up their act immediately rather than waiting for 2016.

The "aptitude test" will have nothing to do with AO. These are two different things. But those "building requirements" could become an excuse for overzealous BureauKrauts to run amok.

I am surprised that Freier cafe which prides itself on providing free speech should cave in so meekly and spinelessly to the proposed law. Shouldn't they should be championing free speech about the proposed law rather than coming up with lots of hypothetical reasons why they can't allow any discussion about AO at all?

I agree with you. But are you really surprised? If I see people changing their ads left and right and even stopping AO and parties ALREADY, without any law being passed yet, then I'm not surprised of a forum like Freiercafe falling in line as well.

Why do so many stop already? If they are going to stop anyway out of their own volition (instead of fighting this stupid law), then why not at least keep it going until a law is valid and the transition time has expired and THEN fall in line? Why already a year in advance? THAT'S what I can't understand!

And it's not just the women and organizers! From what I'm hearing, numbers of customers seem to have dropped by half already at several AO events. So even the guys start obeying a law that doesn't even exist yet. Only because something has been written in the papers. Greetings from German authority-obedience and from "German Angst". There is no more hope for this country. Unless people finally get off their asses and do something. Like here: http://www.bw7.com/forum/showthread....-uns!?p=620087 http://www.donacarmen.de/ http://plattform-frankfurt.de/.

So now you know where to be on June 13th! Help them fight this repressive prostitutes "protection" law, which is nothing other than a prostitutes OPPRESSION law.

Furthermore it is my opinion that Küstenbarbie should be destroyed!

[Myrrh]

There is a show post on the Freier cafe site which sheds light on the reasons why forums and AO service providers are stopping AO now rather than waiting till 2016.

http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?p=212682#post212682.

I am not sure of the literal translation however they seem to be saying that the authorities will be monitoring from now on those who carry on as before even though the new law is not yet active.

Freier cafe are concerned that from forum reports on the internet the authorities will be able to identify those AO providers (girls and clubs) who are likely to be transgressing the law when it comes into place. They will then target them going forward.

Freier cafe does not want to be guilty of providing the information (via their internet forum) which the authorities would be able to use to identify individuals or clubs to pursue. They fear that the authorities may even force Freier cafe to hand over details of IP addresses and other internet evidence which could lead to individuals (forum readers and AO providers) being identified.

Transgressors could be fined and even those prostitutes who do not provide AO could suffer by association if they work at a club where other girls are still providing it.

Freier cafe also seem to be saying that the authorities will require clubs to pass an aptitude test before the clubs get a licence to practice. If the girls in a club have been known to be openly providing AO in the year leading up to the law coming into force then that club will probably not get a licence. Probably explains why the clubs are cleaning up their act immediately rather than waiting for 2016.

As for Freier cafe they will not allow any discussion of AO at all from now on of any kind not even in code.

I am surprised that Freier cafe which prides itself on providing free speech should cave in so meekly and spinelessly to the proposed law. Shouldn't they should be championing free speech about the proposed law rather than coming up with lots of hypothetical reasons why they can't allow any discussion about AO at all?

[SwingerLover]

As I have posted time and time and time again on numerous occasions: The date in question has always been JAN 1st 2016.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous that a lot of places already abandoned AO (and some even partying altogether) with no law existing at all thus far.

[Strikesfun]

Hello,

Is there any update information on when the new law on AO is going to be in place. What is the discussion in the clubs like Venus, F39 etc.

Thanks