Smooci Advertiser Thread

[Gigi Buffon]

I booked Cherry from Bangkok Escorts and paid in advance. She counted the cash and what followed was the worst experience I have ever had with an escort. Bitchy, irritable and even asked me to give her my phone. I shit you not, she wanted my phone. No joke, she really asked for my phone. I have no doubt that it would have been completely different if it was a pay-after model.

I booked her (Cherry from Bangkok Escort) several times early last year. The first time she asked for the money upfront, but the other times, she did not and I paid her at the end. In all occasions, the service provided was above average and I enjoyed. I guess that once you are a repeat customer, the girl attitude to paying upfront or at the end changes. Also, I've noticed that once you become a regular or VIP customer to one of the top agencies, this information is passed on to ladies that you might be booking for the first time and this conditions their behaviour.

[Crocodilexp]

I think it is possible that the service you get by paying upfront in a Massage Shop, a Soapy or one of those fish tank operations might be almost the same as if you paid after.

However, for P4P situations where the girl comes to your room, paying her upfront, no matter how many assurances she gives you about how this is just to make her feel more comfortable or whatever "horror" stories she spins about customers not paying her afterwards, is almost certain to produce something between the worst experiences and the most forgettable ones. She's got your money, her job is done, her mind is already on the other side of that door and it is tugging her body in that same direction with all its might.

Insightful and well said, agree 100%.

Regarding massage shops, only a handful have a reputation to protect. In the few that do (like Tulip or Snow White), I don't care if I pay upfront or later, outcome is the same. Most of the shops don't care much for reputation and provide borderline lousy service anyway. At those places, paying later gives you some slight leverage, but you're still on their turf and outmatched in case of any dispute, so it isn't too huge.

With a girl in your room, you could decide to pay her nothing at all if service is bad or she's too aggravating, and she's well aware of that. I'd never pay zero myself, but some guys would, depending on how pissed off they are. Paying after the deed gives the customer a substantial advantage, and there's nothing that the girl can do about it except try to be nice (sure, they can try revenge after the fact, but that's a big hurdle). If the customer throws that advantage away by agreeing to pay upfront, he deserves the misery that's coming.

[SmoociApp]

As with the cancellation policies, we don't enforce any specific payment policy.

We launched Smooci using a group of agencies, and all the initial agencies had a pay in advance policy. It's worth noting that every escort agency we looked at and talked too used this policy, and not just in Thailand, as well as other services such as soapies and higher end massage.

Now we are starting to introduce independents onto the platform we give them a text box to write / edit their own payment policy, and they are able to request payment at the start or at the end of the booking.

[EihTooms]

I booked Cherry from Bangkok Escorts and paid in advance. She counted the cash and what followed was the worst experience I have ever had with an escort. Bitchy, irritable and even asked me to give her my phone. I shit you not, she wanted my phone. No joke, she really asked for my phone. I have no doubt that it would have been completely different if it was a pay-after model.

I think it is possible that the service you get by paying upfront in a Massage Shop, a Soapy or one of those fish tank operations might be almost the same as if you paid after. I am not experienced enough with those kinds of places to make a comparison. In my case, the experiences have been pretty bad either way in those kinds of venues anyway. But it seems like if the action takes place on their premises, it is incumbent on the provider to represent her venue well even if the customer has already paid upfront, not wanting a truly unhappy customer to stop at the counter on the way out to lodge a loud complaint. I suppose. But I'll bet the PAY-AFTER shops are still more reliable for a great time than the PAY-BEFORE shops for the true aficionados of those kinds of venues.

However, for P4P situations where the girl comes to your room, paying her upfront, no matter how many assurances she gives you about how this is just to make her feel more comfortable or whatever "horror" stories she spins about customers not paying her afterwards, is almost certain to produce something between the worst experiences and the most forgettable ones. She's got your money, her job is done, her mind is already on the other side of that door and it is tugging her body in that same direction with all its might.

[ShimShimHeyo]

I suppose we can only go by our own non-scientific survey results, but my experience is similar to Crocodilexp's; I can't think of one time in thousands of PAY-AFTER sessions and I guess a couple of hundred PAY-BEFORE sessions where my paying the P4P girl BEFORE resulted in a better than acceptable experience. That was even true of my Angeles City, Philippines PAY-BEFORE experiences vs my Manila PAY-AFTER experiences years ago. In those days I was ok with staying in Angeles City and having PAY-BEFORE go-go bar girls because my main concern then as now was whether or not I would get a REAL GFE and that was standard all over the Philippines. But if I stayed in Angeles City I could stay longer because it was much cheaper than Manila. LOL. In those days. However, it was clear my PAY-AFTER Philippina go-go bargirl sessions in Manila were far superior to my PAY-BEFORE Angeles City experiences.

It isn't so much that we, the customers, are dangling the money over the girls' head and making them jump through flaming hoops to get to it. It is that we are in the presence of someone who understands it is up to her to earn the money first and her mind is focused on that during the session rather than how she is going to spend the money already banked in her purse (or, worse, in Angeles City it was banked at the bar before we left it!) with her friends or boyfriend as soon as she gets the hell out of this room.

I booked Cherry from Bangkok Escorts and paid in advance. She counted the cash and what followed was the worst experience I have ever had with an escort. Bitchy, irritable and even asked me to give her my phone. I shit you not, she wanted my phone. No joke, she really asked for my phone. I have no doubt that it would have been completely different if it was a pay-after model.

[EihTooms]

Moving on I would differ with the proposition that in general paying upfront results in subpar service. I imagine the reasoning supporting this goes something like: If I don't deliver a good time he won't pay me as opposed to I'm paid so I'll sleepwalk through this and get out as quick as I can.

Without going into the ins and outs whether this makes sense I'll simply say it hasn't been my experience.

Personally I prefer paying at the end of the session but it is what it is.

I suppose we can only go by our own non-scientific survey results, but my experience is similar to Crocodilexp's; I can't think of one time in thousands of PAY-AFTER sessions and I guess a couple of hundred PAY-BEFORE sessions where my paying the P4P girl BEFORE resulted in a better than acceptable experience. That was even true of my Angeles City, Philippines PAY-BEFORE experiences vs my Manila PAY-AFTER experiences years ago. In those days I was ok with staying in Angeles City and having PAY-BEFORE go-go bar girls because my main concern then as now was whether or not I would get a REAL GFE and that was standard all over the Philippines. But if I stayed in Angeles City I could stay longer because it was much cheaper than Manila. LOL. In those days. However, it was clear my PAY-AFTER Philippina go-go bargirl sessions in Manila were far superior to my PAY-BEFORE Angeles City experiences.

It isn't so much that we, the customers, are dangling the money over the girls' head and making them jump through flaming hoops to get to it. It is that we are in the presence of someone who understands it is up to her to earn the money first and her mind is focused on that during the session rather than how she is going to spend the money already banked in her purse (or, worse, in Angeles City it was banked at the bar before we left it!) with her friends or boyfriend as soon as she gets the hell out of this room.

[EihTooms]

Other day I saw an Indy being listed on Smooci and I decided to google her name (forget what it was now). What I found was a link to an escort agency and photo's of the same girl. Have to wonder if the agency's rush to advertise on smooci will bring about some of their girls breaking away to go the indy route.

If the girls are going to be paid 1,000-1,500 "cancellation fee" just for showing up to reveal a shocking difference between their photos and profile statements, I would be surprised if almost ALL of them didn't choose to go the "Independent" route.

[Tiandihui]

Can't speak for "not has always" or for the Thai Escort scene specifically, but 20-25 years ago when I mongered in Thailand and the Philippines (mostly Angeles City) several weeks per year, one major difference between Thailand's P4P scene in both Bangkok and Pattaya vs Angeles City in the Philippines was that Thailand was PAY-AFTER (so was Manila) while Angeles City was PAY-BEFORE. The internet message boards raged incessantly over the difference. Mongers to both destinations argued about which was a better system for delivery of services; Thailand's (and Manila's) PAY-AFTER system or Angeles City's PAY-BEFORE system. I assure you of that because I was always on the PAY-AFTER side of those pervasive and heated discussions.

And in the past 5+ years I have lived and mongered in Bangkok/Pattaya, Thailand, PAY-AFTER is still the dominant system for go-go bars (talking about the girl's money, not talking about the barfine paid to the bar), beer bars, BJ Bars, Massage Shops and Freelancers. The only exceptions to most of those is when the mamasan or provider thinks she can pull a fast one on an unsuspecting or inexperienced monger and get him to PAY-BEFORE and therefore accept whatever crappy service the girl delivers afterwards having already fully paid up as though she had done a really fine job of it..

Well, everyone has their shares of experience.

Who am I to cast yours away?

But, lets say, if all along is according to your "experience", it must be some drastic measure for the establishments because from some nasty customer who don't wish to pay the full amount or even the not at all to the girl after the session. Or even do some other "Low" stuffs to the girls. Not being gentlemen at all.

If not, why the changes over the times? Right?

We shall not say most but the amount of nasty customer enough, to an extend that makes many agency, bars and etc to take up, "Money first before services" policy.

Everything happens for a reason.

[Breadman]

Other day I saw an Indy being listed on Smooci and I decided to google her name (forget what it was now). What I found was a link to an escort agency and photo's of the same girl. Have to wonder if the agency's rush to advertise on smooci will bring about some of their girls breaking away to go the indy route.

[Franciscass]

No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.

I was specifically talking about the escort scene when suggesting upfront payment is standard in developed P4P markets. For validation simply check out terms and conditions on escort sites worldwide including some in Thailand.

In Thailand for as far back as I can remember paying upfront is certainly standard at soapies. Additionally in the past 5 years or so a lot of oilies have changed from the old system of paying for the massage down stairs and paying the girl for service in the room at the end of the session. Those that have changed in most instances have the whole fee paid up front. Even some shops in the low end BJ bar scene have upfront payment.

I totally agree it is not standard practice in the go go or FL scene.

Moving on I would differ with the proposition that in general paying upfront results in subpar service. I imagine the reasoning supporting this goes something like: If I don't deliver a good time he won't pay me as opposed to I'm paid so I'll sleepwalk through this and get out as quick as I can.

Without going into the ins and outs whether this makes sense I'll simply say it hasn't been my experience.

Personally I prefer paying at the end of the session but it is what it is.

[EihTooms]

I not really agree on this mate. In fact for service first and pay later policy are only the minor group of customers who demanded it.

Many or most places only do payment first and service comes. Though there are some option for service first and pay (BJ shop, small massage joints).

Thailand not has always been pay after sex. This only applies to the Freelance from disco or street walkers. Not just for farang, to all nationalities. Its all to the self neg.

Can't speak for "not has always" or for the Thai Escort scene specifically, but 20-25 years ago when I mongered in Thailand and the Philippines (mostly Angeles City) several weeks per year, one major difference between Thailand's P4P scene in both Bangkok and Pattaya vs Angeles City in the Philippines was that Thailand was PAY-AFTER (so was Manila) while Angeles City was PAY-BEFORE. The internet message boards raged incessantly over the difference. Mongers to both destinations argued about which was a better system for delivery of services; Thailand's (and Manila's) PAY-AFTER system or Angeles City's PAY-BEFORE system. I assure you of that because I was always on the PAY-AFTER side of those pervasive and heated discussions.

And in the past 5+ years I have lived and mongered in Bangkok/Pattaya, Thailand, PAY-AFTER is still the dominant system for go-go bars (talking about the girl's money, not talking about the barfine paid to the bar), beer bars, BJ Bars, Massage Shops and Freelancers. The only exceptions to most of those is when the mamasan or provider thinks she can pull a fast one on an unsuspecting or inexperienced monger and get him to PAY-BEFORE and therefore accept whatever crappy service the girl delivers afterwards having already fully paid up as though she had done a really fine job of it.

Again, can't speak for the Escort scene on that count. And I'm not talking about the big fishbowl operations, where I also have limited (and less than worthwhile) experience. But even in Angeles City, the Philippines, where I did on occasion partake of a hotel delivery escort and in an environment where almost everything was that lame "all-inclusive/PAY-BEFORE" nonsense, I usually paid the escort after and the escort seemed to accept that as the norm. But I suspect that was because the few hotel delivery escorts I had were all from Manila anyway, had worked there previously and found themselves working in Angeles City only for family reasons.

[Tiandihui]

No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.

I not really agree on this mate. In fact for service first and pay later policy are only the minor group of customers who demanded it.

Many or most places only do payment first and service comes. Though there are some option for service first and pay (BJ shop, small massage joints).

Thailand not has always been pay after sex. This only applies to the Freelance from disco or street walkers. Not just for farang, to all nationalities. Its all to the self neg.

Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Shanghai, Europe, States, Canada etc. Most online escorts require the $$Gift) to be presented before the session starts. Be it by hand or leave on the table for her to see.

Whether a not for paying after the service are all from the self demand and neg with the escorts or the agency directly.

Upfront listing or their ads are all payment before session starts.

Can't expect one's demand to over rule the fundamental policies of the market.

Nothing to do with who has the upper hand or limited option or not.

[TravelingMoron]

No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.

Yea I agree, that would be like going to MacDonalds asking for a double cheese burger and only getting a ham burger then them telling you you can't have a refund. Screw that eh!

[Crocodilexp]

I understand escorts for obvious reasons asking for payment within 10 minutes. This is routine in most developed markets.

No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.

[SmoociApp]

We don't enforce any specific cancellation policy. Ultimately we are trying to work as a next generation directory, helping the client and the companion to create an agreement of terms and services before both parties confirm the booking.

There were some initial issues regarding cancellations and payment options, so to attempt to solve this we now give the companions / agencies a blank text spaces to write any cancellation policies and payment options, with the information visible on the companions profile.

We have also added default text in these spaces to help the companions, as the first indepedents didn't understand what to put, but this text is editable.