Stupid shit in Medellin

[Paulie97]

I am not sure what you think I am dodging.

Yes you are dodging, and are simply wrong on this one. If Sweden falls then so do all the anti-maskers, Covid denier conspiracy theorists, etc. So they must twist themselves in knots trying to prop the country up. Watching it is both sad and comical.

You also seem to imply that you should be able to make direct comparisons between Sweden and say Finland or Norway, as if they share smthg more in common with each other than simple geographic location. But there are big differences too, which help explain differences and make comparisons w the rest of Europe fairer. Such as the number of low income immigrants who are more at risk to COVID.

Sweden has far more in common with its Nordic neighbors than the rest of Europe thus making the comparisons more valid. And you've yet to point out any major differences between the Nordics, most notably Sweden, Demark, and Norway that would explain the gross disparities in Covid deaths, other than of course Covid policy. The common variables would be population densities, the existence of major urban centers with inbound and outbound international travel, transportation, and cultures. As to the immigrants, all three countries mentioned have accepted plenty of refugees from the Middle East. Sweden has welcomed the most, but not a volume enough to begin to account for the findings. For example 14.1% of Norway's residents have an immigrant background, while in Sweden it's 20%. Yet Sweden has 18+ times the number of Covid deaths but only double the total population. Now you can run form this to Belgium or France, or even Peru like Elvis, but you only demonstrate to an audience of mongers that you don't know how to do science.

I am not sure what you mean by posturing / lying etc. Who is supposed to have been doing that? I cannot comment bcos I don't understand what your saying.

To put it bluntly you have an agenda or are just stupid. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed the former. The former can possibly be fixed while the latter cannot. Any immunologist worth his salt would compare Sweden to it's Nordic neighbors before other countries in Europe or Peru because that's where by far the most common and significant variables exist. To argue otherwise is at best ignorant.

Sweden did have pandemic measures in place. Its just that it remained more open. It valued liberty above authoritarian rules. It has done better than average in Europe. Significant when you consider it beat many countries with much stricter measures. I would never claim that is has the lowest death rate. That would be preposterous given the stats. However, I would say it struck a very good balance between liberty and risk. Of course, we could eliminate the virus if we all lived in our own caves for 2 years and threw away the keys. Justlike you could eliminate road deaths if you ban vehicles. But no one thinks that is a reasonable balance between liberty and risk.

And of course here come the very predictable logical fallacies. No one has suggested that anyone hide in a cave for two years. Norway and Demark didn't, yet while having very similar societies have a small fraction of the Covid deaths, the former 789, the latter 2520, while Sweden has 14,525. There's nothing reasonable about accepting all these excess deaths with lax policy chasing herd immunity. They fucked up. And in a word, screw your liberty to get in people's faces maskless during a once in a hundred years pandemic. Lives are more important. Also your car analogy is another fallacy, as like successful Covid protocols, we do take actions to deter auto deaths, vehicle safety, recalls, speed limits, seat belt laws, etc.

That said, this is my last Covid post in a monger forum. I've been indulging over a year now so have done my duty. Wink. Plus once you unravel all the Fox News esque nonsense a new one comes along repeating it over again. I have better things to do than go in circles.

[Elvis 2008]

Also if you scratch a little under the surface with what happened in Sweden, you will find that the government made huge mistakes with old age people's homes and there were many deaths there in the early months. These deaths would have happened had Sweden locked down or not.

And that is what led to the higher death rates early on. We had the governor of New York here make the same mistake.

Sweden did have pandemic measures in place. Its just that it remained more open. It valued liberty above authoritarian rules. It has done better than average in Europe. Significant when you consider it beat many countries with much stricter measures. I would never claim that is has the lowest death rate. That would be preposterous given the stats. However, I would say it struck a very good balance between liberty and risk. Of course, we could eliminate the virus if we all lived in our own caves for 2 years and threw away the keys. Justlike you could eliminate road deaths if you ban vehicles. But no one thinks that is a reasonable balance between liberty and risk.

Wow, we have quite the rational poster on the forum for a change.

Paulie et al are going to believe Fauci and the CDC are heroes because they are Democratic douches. You show them the research, even from a heavily Democratic leaning university like Stanford, and they are not going to change their minds. What they do not get is that the Biden Administration is getting ready to cut Fauci loose.

The two big pieces of recent news were the release of Fauci's emails. These emails were requested in part by the Democratic newspaper The Washington Post and released by the Biden administration. And the other was a Washington Post reporter clearly being fed information by the Biden administration.

What has happened is the WP prints up stories that the email release was nothing for the Democratic douches to get drunk over. In reality, Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post, banned the selling of Fauci's book on Amazon, the company he started, on the basis of what was in the emails.

If you go to the 2:30 of this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhKlkkc2Eo ,you will see a Washington Post reporter release the breaking news that Fauci started back gain of function virus research in the lab on his own after the Obama-Biden administration told him to stop it. It is pretty clear to me that he was given that information by the Biden administration and told not to blame Trump even though the reporter has been critical of Trump throughout his interview.

The real smoking gun is more like a stick of dynamite in that you need two parts, the dynamite and a match. This reporter's comment was the match.

The dynamite was Fauci's own words. See the link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3484390/.

Consider this hypothetical scenario: an important gain-of-function experiment involving a virus with serious pandemic potential is performed in a well-regulated, world-class laboratory by experienced investigators, but the information from the experiment is then used by another scientist who does not have the same training and facilities and is not subject to the same regulations. In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic? Many ask reasonable questions: given the possibility of such a scenario—however remote—should the initial experiments have been performed and / or published in the first place, and what were the processes involved in this decision?

Scientists working in this field might say—as indeed I have said—that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks. It is more likely that a pandemic would occur in nature, and the need to stay ahead of such a threat is a primary reason for performing an experiment that might appear to be risky. However, we must respect that there are genuine and legitimate concerns about this type of research, both domestically and globally. We cannot expect those who have these concerns to simply take us, the scientific community, at our word that the benefits of this work outweigh the risks, nor can we ignore their calls for greater transparency, their concerns about conflicts of interest, and their efforts to engage in a dialog about whether these experiments should have been performed in the first place. Those of us in the scientific community who believe in the merits of this work have the responsibility to address these concerns thoughtfully and respectfully.

End of quote. So here you have Fauci as the hero of the pandemic when in fact he actually caused it. This fucker on his own assessed risk: benefit for the whole world.

And there were two competing theories for the origin of the virus. It was made by nature and it was made in the lab and leaked from the lab.

As the Washington Post reporter said, one of the other villains was Fauci's henchman Peter Daszak. He is the guy who funded Corona virus research in China, did the sham inspection of the Wuhan lab, and is the organizer of the paper written in Lancet that dismissed Covid 19 came from a lab. He sent an email to Fauci thanking him for pushing the natural origin theory with Covid 19. He and Fauci even got the tech companies to censor the lab leak theory.

Not that this is going to convince the Democratic douches of anything, but the video of the day is this complete scumbag Daszak bragging about the creation of the deadly strain of Covid-19. See the link: https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusi...coronaviruses/.

It really is fucking disgusting but I doubt it is going to change the minds of anyone. It seems like everyone just wants confirmation bias at this point.

[JustTK]

I am not sure what you think I am dodging. I wasnt asked any questions so I was not in a position to dodge, and I didn't make any claims about anything other than giving an explanation as to why Sweden had a high death rate early on.

You also seem to imply that you should be able to make direct comparisons between Sweden and say Finland or Norway, as if they share smthg more in common with each other than simple geographic location. But there are big differences too, which help explain differences and make comparisons w the rest of Europe fairer. Such as the number of low income immigrants who are more at risk to COVID.

I am not sure what you mean by posturing / lying etc. Who is supposed to have been doing that? I cannot comment bcos I don't understand what your saying.

Sweden did have pandemic measures in place. Its just that it remained more open. It valued liberty above authoritarian rules. It has done better than average in Europe. Significant when you consider it beat many countries with much stricter measures. I would never claim that is has the lowest death rate. That would be preposterous given the stats. However, I would say it struck a very good balance between liberty and risk. Of course, we could eliminate the virus if we all lived in our own caves for 2 years and threw away the keys. Justlike you could eliminate road deaths if you ban vehicles. But no one thinks that is a reasonable balance between liberty and risk.

You aren't scratching anything but dodging the issue just like your boy Elvirus. The early nursing home deaths were in the few thousands while Sweden's total Covid deaths approach 15,000, their neighbor Norway less then a thousand, Demark about 2,500, both of very similar demographics and both of which of course also have nursing homes. Masks and social distancing and similar protocols work when applied, bottom line. That's in spite of all the posturing, lying, Covid denialism, liberty over lives nonsense in the failed effort to save Trump's presidency. And the poster boy of all this Sweden, is also a failure. Now it's time to get shots in arms and move on. Those who cooperated in preserving lives until the vaccines could be developed are to be applauded.

[LoveItHere69]

USA Centers for Disease Control.

Colombia Very High Risk (level 4).

USA High Risk (level 3).

China Low Risk (level 1).

The place it all started is Low Risk! Why? Because they (China) said so.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...l-notices.html

If I had the money (1 mil) I would never return. Unlike all the celebrities that said it. I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Paulie97]

Also if you scratch a little under the surface with what happened in Sweden, you will find that the government made huge mistakes with old age people's homes and there were many deaths there in the early months. These deaths would have happened had Sweden locked down or not. If you discount those early once-off deaths, Sweden actually had a very good record compared to nearly all European countries. Comes with having an effective public health system.

You aren't scratching anything but dodging the issue just like your boy Elvirus. The early nursing home deaths were in the few thousands while Sweden's total Covid deaths approach 15,000, their neighbor Norway less then a thousand, Demark about 2,500, both of very similar demographics and both of which of course also have nursing homes. Masks and social distancing and similar protocols work when applied, bottom line. That's in spite of all the posturing, lying, Covid denialism, liberty over lives nonsense in the failed effort to save Trump's presidency. And the poster boy of all this Sweden, is also a failure. Now it's time to get shots in arms and move on. Those who cooperated in preserving lives until the vaccines could be developed are to be applauded.

[JustTK]

Got that douche? What Sweden did was as effective as England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and the United States. Why do you morons keep repeating these strict interventions worked?

Also if you scratch a little under the surface with what happened in Sweden, you will find that the government made huge mistakes with old age people's homes and there were many deaths there in the early months. These deaths would have happened had Sweden locked down or not. If you discount those early once-off deaths, Sweden actually had a very good record compared to nearly all European countries. Comes with having an effective public health system.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Can you Democratic read?

https://www.outkick.com/stanford-stu...t-home-orders/

A group of researchers at Stanford published a peer-reviewed study earlier this month assessing the impact of lockdowns and stay-at-home orders what they refer to as non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in early 2020. The study did not find evidence to support that NPIs were effective in preventing the spread.

"In summary, we fail to find strong evidence supporting a role for more restrictive NPIs in the control of COVID in early 2020," the study concludes. "We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures. The data cannot fully exclude the possibility of some benefits.

Now this is from the study paper itself, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/eci.13484.

Implementing any NPIs was associated with significant reductions in case growth in 9 out of 10 study countries, including South Korea and Sweden that I'm-plemented only lrNPIs (Spain had a nonsignificant effect). After subtracting the epi-demic and lrNPI effects, we find no clear, significant beneficial effect of mrNPIs on case growth in any country. While small benefits cannot be excluded, we do not find significant benefits on case growth of more restrictive NPIs. Similar reductions in case growth may be achievable with less- restrictive interventions.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/06/a...anthony-fauci/

[MarquisdeSade1]

Can you Democratic read?

https://www.outkick.com/stanford-stu...t-home-orders/

A group of researchers at Stanford published a peer-reviewed study earlier this month assessing the impact of lockdowns and stay-at-home orders what they refer to as non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in early 2020. The study did not find evidence to support that NPIs were effective in preventing the spread.

"In summary, we fail to find strong evidence supporting a role for more restrictive NPIs in the control of COVID in early 2020," the study concludes. "We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures. The data cannot fully exclude the possibility of some benefits.

Now this is from the study paper itself, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/eci.13484.

Implementing any NPIs was associated with significant reductions in case growth in 9 out of 10 study countries, including South Korea and Sweden that I'm-plemented only lrNPIs (Spain had a nonsignificant effect). After subtracting the epi-demic and lrNPI effects, we find no clear, significant beneficial effect of mrNPIs on case growth in any country. While small benefits cannot be excluded, we do not find significant benefits on case growth of more restrictive NPIs. Similar reductions in case growth may be achievable with less- restrictive interventions.

Got that douche? What Sweden did was as effective as England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and the United States. Why do you morons keep repeating these strict interventions worked?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/o...gtype=Homepage

[Elvis 2008]

Once again, you don't have a clue.

"Lockdowns" were used to "buy time". Without any lockdowns whatsoever, hospitals would have been overrun quickly and MORE people would have died.

Can you Democratic read?

https://www.outkick.com/stanford-stu...t-home-orders/

A group of researchers at Stanford published a peer-reviewed study earlier this month assessing the impact of lockdowns and stay-at-home orders — what they refer to as non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in early 2020. The study did not find evidence to support that NPIs were effective in preventing the spread.

"In summary, we fail to find strong evidence supporting a role for more restrictive NPIs in the control of COVID in early 2020," the study concludes. "We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures. The data cannot fully exclude the possibility of some benefits.

Now this is from the study paper itself, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/eci.13484.

Implementing any NPIs was associated with significant reductions in case growth in 9 out of 10 study countries, including South Korea and Sweden that I'm-plemented only lrNPIs (Spain had a nonsignificant effect). After subtracting the epi-demic and lrNPI effects, we find no clear, significant beneficial effect of mrNPIs on case growth in any country. While small benefits cannot be excluded, we do not find significant benefits on case growth of more restrictive NPIs. Similar reductions in case growth may be achievable with less- restrictive interventions.

Got that douche? What Sweden did was as effective as England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and the United States. Why do you morons keep repeating these strict interventions worked?

Most Republicans refuse to do the right thing so everybody loses.

Actually, Republicans were rightly skeptical of "scientists". The governor of Texas opened up the state and the doom and gloom you douches predicted failed to happen.

Stop watching Fox and especially Tucker Carlson. To say Fauci is incompetent is, well, incompetent.

Oh, I see. So Tucker Carlson quotes Fauci's own emails, and you label him not worth listening to. You are so open minded. If you want to be critical of TC, have at it but don't watch him? That is all this country needs, another pro-censorship douche.

You actually turned a virus into a red-blue, liberal-conservative thing. Amazing.

But actually, douche, this was a discussion about what Colombia was doing, namely everything Fauci and what you government loving, civil rights hating, business loathing Democratic douches wanted, and what a fucking disaster it was. On this, you douches called Colombians stupid which makes me ask this question.

If Colombians are such noncompliant retards, why do you bother going there? Why not stay in the people's Republic of Califronia where you belong?

[PVMonger]

Zeos, just like there are crazy anti-vaxxers. There are crazy pro-vaxxers. They think that natural immunity does not count which is pure bullshit. There are 34 million documented cases of Covid in the USA. It is estimated that only one in three cases were caught. So toss in natural immunity with those vaccinated, and you are in the region where herd immunity occurs.

Yes, it is terrible but only because the Colombians listened to the blowhard experts. The mayor of Bogota caught religion and finally recognized the economic hardships she was putting on people, and I am actually proud of the Colombian people who rebelled.

I think the Bogota mayor was in a power struggle with President Duque and was using the crisis for political gain. They tried to out hard ass each other. I think this is an American author bitching about the stupidity of the mayor's rules: https://thebogotapost.com/the-mayor-...ed-wolf/48738/.

Anyway, Colombia is rolling out the vaccines en masse. In three months, they will be where the USA is now. More importantly, all these bullshit restrictions are done forever this time around...

Once again, you don't have a clue.

"Lockdowns" were used to "buy time". Without any lockdowns whatsoever, hospitals would have been overrun quickly and MORE people would have died.

It is an unfortunate fact that even during a lockdown, people leave their dwellings for a multitude of reasons. During any one of these sojurns, a person could get COVID. How they get it is irrelevant. Coupled with the fact that many South Americans live in cramped quarters in multigenerational households, one person can infect 10.

Wearing masks works (buy only when everybody wears them correctly). Distancing works and so does hand washing. The combo works very well but only when it is consistent. If only 50% of the population take 50% of the precautions, everybody loses. Look at the US. Almost 600,000 people have died. Most Republicans refuse to do the right thing so everybody loses. Maybe the solution is to vaccinate only Dems and Independents and let Republicans pound sand.

To say Fauci is incompetent is, well, incompetent. You act as if he should have known everything from the get-go. In reality, he altered his position when more data was available. Since you contend that nobody should do that, I'll use YOU as an example. You must have a 6-year-old's outlook on everything because changing your mind from what you thought as a 6-year-old means that you are incompetent.

Stop watching Fox and especially Tucker Carlson. Remember that his legal defense in the slander lawsuit was that nobody in their right mind would believe anything he says. That means you.

[Paulie97]

Of course you can, but if you were intellectually honest (are you?) you would want to make a comparison with countries that have the most similar variables. I'm sure you want to point out that Sweden did better than Andorra, Czechia and Bahrain. The problem is that not all countries are equal comparisons. Using the countries that have the most similar factors makes for honest comparisons. I think they call that 'science'.

That's exactly what it's called.

[Elvis 2008]

I saw reports from Vegas in the last few days. Back to normal. Hate to throw rain on the parade. But with 30 to 50% of the people there not vaccinated (assuming the normal mix for the US) and if the variants are present there, there will be lots of Covid still to come.

Zeos, just like there are crazy anti-vaxxers. There are crazy pro-vaxxers. They think that natural immunity does not count which is pure bullshit. There are 34 million documented cases of Covid in the USA. It is estimated that only one in three cases were caught. So toss in natural immunity with those vaccinated, and you are in the region where herd immunity occurs.

As for Colombia. Terrrible dilemma and situation.

Yes, it is terrible but only because the Colombians listened to the blowhard experts. The mayor of Bogota caught religion and finally recognized the economic hardships she was putting on people, and I am actually proud of the Colombian people who rebelled.

I think the Bogota mayor was in a power struggle with President Duque and was using the crisis for political gain. They tried to out hard ass each other. I think this is an American author bitching about the stupidity of the mayor's rules: https://thebogotapost.com/the-mayor-...ed-wolf/48738/.

Anyway, Colombia is rolling out the vaccines en masse. In three months, they will be where the USA is now. More importantly, all these bullshit restrictions are done forever this time around.

The lockdowns and measures to stop these variants will be virtually impossible to follow in a place like that.

Okay, Zeos, you are Canadian and so I cannot call you a Democratic douche, but you need to keep up. This was one of the rare times the New York Times called out the CDC and got it right, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/b...dc-number.html.

It appears to be based partly on a misclassification of some Covid transmission that actually took place in enclosed spaces (as I explain below). An even bigger issue is the extreme caution of see. The. See. Officials, who picked a benchmark — 10 percent — so high that nobody could reasonably dispute it.

That benchmark "seems to be a huge exaggeration," as Dr. Muge Cevik, a virologist at the University of St. Andrews, said. In truth, the share of transmission that has occurred outdoors seems to be below 1 percent and may be below 0. 1 percent.

So tell me, Zeos, if outdoor transmission is so rare, wouldn't locking people inside make it more likely the virus spreads? Lockdowns were not retarded. They were fucking retarded.

A more interesting thing involved social distancing. Where I saw social distancing used the most was in stores, in lines ETC, they were worthless because transmission usually involves people talking to each other for longer than 15 minutes. And where is that most likely to happen?

Well, one study showed 75% of the cases of virus were spread in the home. So if social distancing should have used anywhere, it was in the home. Social distancing may have worked but not in the way the governments employed it.

Again, we just had the Democratic douches on this forum show they are faith based, anti-scientific, arrogant blowhards that have bought hook, line, and sinker what the so called "experts" were saying at the beginning of the crisis. Don't be like them. The arrogant Democratic douche method of listening to the "scientists" is done. Right now, the Democratic douches still do not believe how corrupt and self-serving the "scientists" were. They will get it. Eventually, what is on Fox now will filter to CNN and MSNBC. The polls here already show a loss of faith in the experts by the public.

In the beginning, I thought Fauci was just an incompetent but well intentioned blowhard. I did not think he was an arrogant evil piece of shit who deserves to be put in jail. Now I do. He has committed enough perjury that he can be prosecuted. I had heard that he may have been partially responsible for the whole epidemic, but I did not really believe it. With the recently released emails, to me, it is a near certainty.

As for the Chinese, I thought any notion that they would have released the virus on purpose was totally absurd. Now looking at what happened with so many cases in the USA versus in China. I am not sure. I do not think they released it on purpose, but it is not ridiculous to say they did so. It is more accurate now IMO to say it was improbable. I am a true believer in incompetence over conspiracy, however I am seeing very clearly how China could have benefitted from releasing the virus, and I do not like it. Not at all. The Chinese Communist Party behaved horribly, and the world is catching on to how they truly behaved. The CCP has been using racism to deflect those attacks, but soon that is not going to work. We need to start looking at the CCP in the same light as we do the mafia.

[Villainy]

So I am wrong and you do not remember what it was about? Let me guess what party you are affiliated with.

It is very rare that you make one and only one coherent argument. Usually you are all over the place but the crux of the issue was that you predicted less than 80,000 deaths from CoVid in the US.

Here is a fact for you. We're over 600,000. You were wrong. I misremembered the number at issue as 200,000 that would have been ridicously wrong as well. That is what happened and my political affiliation didn't impact those facts one bit.

LOL. So I was wrong, but again you cannot remember what it was about. Really?
And you guys and this wager thing are about as consistent as no mask, one mask, two masks Fauci.

The dispute centered around the number of deaths expected from CoVid in the US. I guess the interesting part was you had your usual opinion based on whatever, but you knew you were full of it and weren't willing to back it up with a wager. No biggie. Maybe you couldn't afford the wager. Maybe you knew your opinion was full of cow droppings. Who knows what goes on inside your head.

Right you are doing the Democratic douche thing of making a statement and then going out and finding the facts that support it versus the scientific method where you collect the data first.
Actually what I said was that you could judge Sweden's failure or success based upon who you compared them to.

Now you're lying. You said Sweden would reach herd immunity very quickly and the results would show how the Elvis / Sweden approach was superior. You cited a comparison to Belgium to 'lend support' to your specious argument. Hey it's OK. I can see you never took classes in debate or statistics or logic. But why would a used car salesman take classes like that? Slinging the bull is much better, right?

Uh, Sweden was stupid and inept? That is news to me.

Well their approach to handling the virus was inept. Compare their results with those of their neighbors who took a much more cautious approach. The difference in results are striking.

Again, I could bring up countries with worse numbers than Sweden.

Of course you can, but if you were intellectually honest (are you?) you would want to make a comparison with countries that have the most similar variables. I'm sure you want to point out that Sweden did better than Andorra, Czechia and Bahrain. The problem is that not all countries are equal comparisons. Using the countries that have the most similar factors makes for honest comparisons. I think they call that 'science'.

The scientific method huh? Hey, look, Paulie agrees with you. Sorry, douche, now you are really done for.

I don't really know Paulie but if he thinks you are a windbag then I have to say I respect his judgement.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/st...stopping-covid

LOL. I was jerking your chain. You said Zero Hedge, you read Zero Hedge right?

Oh of course, I read every blog on the internet trying to find one that supports my nutty theories.

Here is the actual study done from Stanford that ZH referenced not that you will read it: https://www.outkick.com/stanford-stu...t-home-orders/.

I did read the study and a few things stand out. One it was conducted in part by the Department of Epidemiology which, of course, makes sense. I must say I'm surprised you didn't find an article authored in part by the Department of Ophthalmology. You seem to think that background is more germaine. I'm sure you glossed by this but the study was done early in 2020. I wonder if the subsequent evidence would reach the same conclusion. BTW the article also said:

""In summary, we fail to find strong evidence supporting a role for more restrictive NPIs in the control of COVID in early 2020," the study concludes. "We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures. The data cannot fully exclude the possibility of some benefits. " With a year or more of results and a better understanding of how viral infections are spread, you might want to look at The WHO recommendations instead. They are more up to date.

It turns out what Sweden did was as effective as what anyone else did.

The evidence points to a different conclusion. Are you familiar with Worldometer (or is that a Democratic conspiracy website as well?) ? You can review the results of various countries and see if you still think Sweden did an effective job.

Well, at least, we agree on one thing. You really should stop.

Sure thing bud. I'll stop. But first let me educate you on a simple fact that you haven't yet grasped. And it is an important one. Just because someone is a Democrat or a Socialist or a Leftist or whatever pejorative term you want to use, that doesn't mean they aren't smarter than you are. It doesn't mean that they aren't right. Calling someone a Democratic douche doesn't make your argument valid. If anything it suggests you have been outwitted and can't find anything but insults to validate your opinion. I'll wait for your rebuttal thesis because if there is one thing everyone here has learned. Elvis will not stop without having the last word.

[JustTK]

*thumbsup* I am in Sta Marta and it honestly feels like COVID is over. It clearly is not, but no one really cares anymore. Most people have already had the virus (suspected), so people go about their business like it is a normal day now.

People wear masks around their necks in case the police come looking for tips. Shop and restaurant staff need to wear masks to operate legally. Thats about all here now.

That's about the number I thought it was. The issue is also how communicable it is. The younger crowd wasn't getting it much during the first and second wave, but were in this third wave. Could be because more of the older cohort got vaccines first. Raising the proportions. But there is agreement that some of these variants are a lot more contagious. The simplest evidence is that they take over the cases as they have done here. Meaning that whatever measures we were taking suppressed the original version to a certain are number, and the variants had a much higher are number so within a month most cases showing up were the variants. The original is still around, and the same, but the one spreading the fastest takes over.

Anyway. My point was not to spread any misinformation, by direct numbers or implication. And the good news here is that with around 65% of the population having a least one dose of a vaccine our numbers of cases have begun to drop rapidly. We had a lot more vaccines in late April and early May, and once these have had the two weeks in arms the case rates start showing the decline in cases. We are still locked down in many ways. No inside dining, non-essential businesses not open (curbside pickup only), no outdoor dining yet. But I expect in two weeks outdoor dining will be allowed and businesses can reopen on a limited basis. Of course masks indoors, and no visiting other than your own households.

[Zeos1]

Yes I am interested bcos I think it is dangerous and disfunctional to spread false information. I am open to hear new info which is why I asked if you had any evidence. I have seen stats from UK and SA that show hardly anyone young and healthy is dying. I just had a quick look for Colombia and came up with this which is based on minsalud stats: https://medellinguru.com/colombia-co...us-death-rate/.

Again, it shows hardly anyone is dying under the age of 60 in Colombia and Italy. I am not familiar with the Ontario website. I did take a quick look, and they confirm that less than a half a percent (<0. 5%) of deaths are under 60. https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-...port.pdf?la=en.

So again, I repeat that there is no risk (meaning very little) to healthy people under 60 years old.

That's about the number I thought it was. The issue is also how communicable it is. The younger crowd wasn't getting it much during the first and second wave, but were in this third wave. Could be because more of the older cohort got vaccines first. Raising the proportions. But there is agreement that some of these variants are a lot more contagious. The simplest evidence is that they take over the cases as they have done here. Meaning that whatever measures we were taking suppressed the original version to a certain are number, and the variants had a much higher are number so within a month most cases showing up were the variants. The original is still around, and the same, but the one spreading the fastest takes over.

Anyway. My point was not to spread any misinformation, by direct numbers or implication. And the good news here is that with around 65% of the population having a least one dose of a vaccine our numbers of cases have begun to drop rapidly. We had a lot more vaccines in late April and early May, and once these have had the two weeks in arms the case rates start showing the decline in cases. We are still locked down in many ways. No inside dining, non-essential businesses not open (curbside pickup only), no outdoor dining yet. But I expect in two weeks outdoor dining will be allowed and businesses can reopen on a limited basis. Of course masks indoors, and no visiting other than your own households.