Stupid shit in Medellin

[JjBee62]

Your response just illustrates my point JB. You assume you know the argument and it is too simple and then you ridicule it, but it is not that way at all. I can link the video if your interested. It is not an argument akin to that the COVID vax contains track and spy technology.

You also skip the significant point that science pointed to DDT being safe.

No ridicule. Just pointing out the obvious. Work on your phrasing. "DDT caused the polio epidemic. " If the virus already existed and was already causing polio, the most DDT could have done was facilitate the epidemic.

I'm not interested in watching a video. If you link the peer-reviewed study demonstrating the link between the epidemic and DDT, I'll look it over. As I've stated several times, there are no requirements for posted videos. Anyone can post anything. With comment filtering and blocking they can even control the responses. It's the educational equivalent of a dictatorship.

On the other hand, a study, submitted to publication and opened up to examination and criticism by members of the field of study, requires the scientist to be able to defend their research. It's how Andrew Wakefield was discredited. He falsified data for financial gain.

More problems with your phrasing on the last paragraph. Science didn't point to DDT being safe. A scientist first synthesized the compound. Later another scientist discovered it was an effective insecticide and it was widely and successfully used to combat malaria by killing mosquitoes. Scientists and health organizations determined, based upon the data available at that time, that the benefit of battling malaria outweighed the risks against humans.

Science, on the other hand kept collecting data. Science determined that the environmental impact of widespread DDT use outweighed the benefits and most usage has been banned for 50 years. Science has continued to examine human health effects to determine in what other ways DDT may be harmful.

It's crucial to understand the 3 elements involved. First there are scientists, people who are passionate about unraveling questions and finding answers. They generally are highly focused upon the path their research takes.

Next is Science itself, the methodology used by everyone to find solutions. You use Science finding girls. You've developed your methods, tested them and determined which ways work best for you. Your fellow scientists in the field of mongerology might disagree with your methodology or findings. Some might use the same methods but ignore the human risks, and seek out underaged, trafficked, abused or addicted women. The science isn't evil, but it's subject to abuse.

Which brings us to the third player, Capitalism. Scientists are both brilliant and ignorant. They often look only at potential benefits for humanity and overlook environmental risks, or opportunities for financial gain. Fortunately, Capitalism is there to save the day. Capitalism weighs the human cost against profits for shareholders. It's a brutal, but effective scale.

As an example, look at asbestos, incredibly useful and highly profitable. Capitalism jumped in and exploited all the benefits of asbestos and money was made. Fortunately, for them, asbestos related health issues generally take decades to manifest, plus decades more to isolate the cause. Meanwhile, Capitalism used scientists to find more profit from asbestos. Eventually, science catches up, asbestos use is regulated and the grandchildren of the earlier Capitalists lose part of their trust funds.

Part of survival is the ability to make decisions. Often a bad decision is better than no decision. When it comes to any of the subjects currently being discussed here, decisions were made, based upon available data. And yes, part of the data is always focused on profit. Looking at Covid, drastic measures were taken. Some were ineffective. Years from now, more will be known about the effectiveness of each. Long after we're both dead science might decide that nothing should have been done about Covid, or it might determine failure to react would have been disastrous.

Meanwhile this is just a frivolous debate for a few people, and an excuse to babble incoherently for others.

[JustTK]

DDT was invented in 1874. First suspected case of polio was in 1773.

I'm not suggesting DDT is safe to put on your corn flakes, but it doesn't take much to argue against something that didn't yet exist causing something else.

Your response just illustrates my point JB. You assume you know the argument and it is too simple and then you ridicule it, but it is not that way at all. I can link the video if your interested. It is not an argument akin to that the COVID vax contains track and spy technology.

You also skip the significant point that science pointed to DDT being safe.

[Casa No Va]

DDT was invented in 1874. First suspected case of polio was in 1773.

I'm not suggesting DDT is safe to put on your corn flakes, but it doesn't take much to argue against something that didn't yet exist causing something else.

Aristotle.

"The sign of an intelligent mind is some who can entertain and idea without having to accept it".

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...s-ddt-science/

[JjBee62]

Not at all. You do not think many beliefs of yesteryear were based on the science of that day? So people just threw leaches on each other because they believed it would do something? No. The science of that day was enough to prove it would do what they were saying. The same as some science of today is enough to prove some things that will be discredited in years to come. One day Pluto is a planet and the next day it is not. Pluto has not changed in billions of years, but science has.

You have the cart before the horse. The science comes after the beliefs, either as an attempt to prove or contest the beliefs. At times, and we're in one of those times now, beliefs overthrow reason. We're just entering into a new dark age.

You do realize that leeches are still used in medicine and have several applications? Now there was a period when leeching was overprescribed for almost everything, but if you were in the Navy you surely remember when Ibuprofen was given out like Halloween candy (and not long before that it was Tylenol 3 with Codeine).

Perhaps a basic explanation of what science is could simplify the conversation.

Science is the use of observation and experimentation to determine the best possible answer using available data. Technically, science is always wrong, at least in hindsight, because we're always learning more and improving data collection.

[JjBee62]

Bayer / Monsanto are paying out millions and millions to settle medical claims against Roundup bcos it causes cancer, although their version of science and the one that the establishment scientists accepted as correct at the time, showed that it was safe.

I watched a very compelling discussion today about how the Polio epidemic was caused by DDT. Another pesticide. Scientists still deny this, although they prefer to burn up a strawman rather than confront the real claim (just as they do with COVID). It seems that a huge proportion of the worst illenesses facing mankind have been caused by man following the 'science'.

DDT was invented in 1874. First suspected case of polio was in 1773.

I'm not suggesting DDT is safe to put on your corn flakes, but it doesn't take much to argue against something that didn't yet exist causing something else.

[JustTK]

Not at all. You do not think many beliefs of yesteryear were based on the science of that day? So people just threw leaches on each other because they believed it would do something? No. The science of that day was enough to prove it would do what they were saying.

Bayer / Monsanto are paying out millions and millions to settle medical claims against Roundup bcos it causes cancer, although their version of science and the one that the establishment scientists accepted as correct at the time, showed that it was safe.

I watched a very compelling discussion today about how the Polio epidemic was caused by DDT. Another pesticide. Scientists still deny this, although they prefer to burn up a strawman rather than confront the real claim (just as they do with COVID). It seems that a huge proportion of the worst illenesses facing mankind have been caused by man following the 'science'.

[Iguana Six]

.....The Great Debates of the ISG Biomedical Division.

What did Rick tell Morty? "Give it up Morty. You are trying to sell tickets to the policeman's ball to a black teenager."

I'll check back in a week or so.

[Villainy]

I think we can all agree on one point. No one is going to change their mind.

Anti-covid vaccine believers think the other side are idiots and mindless sheep.

Covid vaccine believers think the other side are idiots and uneducated.

You can go back and forth but it accomplishes nothing. Isn't there better things to do?

OK, OK let me see if I can explain it to you.

1. This is the "Stuipid Shit in Medellin" forum. If you can't abide by mindless banter, then by all means, feel free to leave.

2. "Isn't there better THINGS to do? Since "things" is plural, you should have used "Aren't instead of Isn't".

[Villainy]

I got the jab twice. The first was by choice when the vaccine effectively prevented a person from getting Covid.

The second was ten months later when the vaccine did not work and was mandated for travel.

I guess your little brain does not understand the difference between the words voluntary and mandate or the words effective and not effective. All it can handle is provaxx and antivaxx.

Maybe your brain is as alcohol and aluminum soaked as Huacho's is.

I am delighted to be among the group (with Huacho) who have a brai. Not surprisingly, you are conspicuously absent from that group.

[Mr Enternational]

You're confusing beliefs with science.

Not at all. You do not think many beliefs of yesteryear were based on the science of that day? So people just threw leaches on each other because they believed it would do something? No. The science of that day was enough to prove it would do what they were saying. The same as some science of today is enough to prove some things that will be discredited in years to come. One day Pluto is a planet and the next day it is not. Pluto has not changed in billions of years, but science has.

[MoonShot]

I think we can all agree on one point. No one is going to change their mind.

Anti-covid vaccine believers think the other side are idiots and mindless sheep.

Covid vaccine believers think the other side are idiots and uneducated.

You can go back and forth but it accomplishes nothing. Isn't there better things to do?

[JjBee62]

Didn't Bayer say the same thing when they started selling heroin over the counter to treat coughs and headaches? Didn't the universe used to revolve around the earth? Science is always real until it is proven to be dead wrong.

You're confusing beliefs with science.

Science is never "dead wrong (explanationat end). " Scientists can be dead wrong, but that's extremely rare. Most often, when a scientist turns out to be dead wrong it's because they falsified data for their own benefit. Take Andrew Wakefield for a relevant example.

In order for science to be accepted as valid (based on the data currently available) it has to be repeatable and observable by other scientists, the peer review process. Most of the "science" which is supposedly being suppressed won't be submitted for peer review and is only published in fringe publications which don't require peer review.

Putting it in golf terms, in any tournament play, each golfer scores his own round, but his card must be reviewed by his opponent. Any errors result in penalties. Now imagine a tournament, 72 players. At the end of the round, 71 players had their card reviewed by someone they played with. All good. However, number 72 refused to let anyone check his card and claimed to have shot 20 under par for the round. He's disqualified, canceled, suppressed and it's all big golf trying to control the world, and not a guy cheating at golf.

Science is a constant attempt to find better answers, not right answers, better answers. Opium probably works quite well on headaches, heroin is derived from opium, as is morphine. Now we have aspirin, ibuprofen, acetaminophen and others to provide better answers for headaches. We've also found better answers to using leeches or fire to remove evil from a person.

All those planes you fly on, science did that. Your car, your guns, your food and the bed you sleep on all brought to you by science.

[JustTK]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110345

In an ongoing, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, multinational, pivotal efficacy trial, we randomly assigned 44,165 participants 16 years of age or older and 2264 participants 12 to 15 years of age to receive two 30-956;g doses, at 21 days apart, of BNT162 b2 or placebo.

And before you say the vaccines "worked" against Covid, keep in mind the all time high number of Covid cases by far were in Spring 2022 one year after the vaccines were made widely available. The boosters were made available because the vaccines were not working.

More and more data comes out regularly to support the Skeptics position, but it is supressed, ridiculed and ignored by the establishment bcos it is inconvenient and often points at erronous, criminal and negligent actions. That's how the establishment does it. That's what I have been talking about here for so long. Unfortunately the establishment is very powerful and relies on sheeple ignorance for them to get away with it. The sheeples with their eyes closed will just smear skeptics like Elvis w adhoms bocs it's all they have got. Sure, Elvis is wrong about many things, but not about covid. Attack the argument, not the man.

[Elvis 2008]

Science has progressed a little bit since the 16th century yet some people still believe the earth is flat.

Heroin was widely available, legal and marketed in the USA in the late 19th not 16th century.

[Elvis 2008]

Science has progressed a little bit since the 16th century yet some people still believe the earth is flat.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110345

In an ongoing, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, multinational, pivotal efficacy trial, we randomly assigned 44,165 participants 16 years of age or older and 2264 participants 12 to 15 years of age to receive two 30-956;g doses, at 21 days apart, of BNT162 b2 or placebo.

Reactogenicity events among the participants who were not in the reactogenicity subgroup were reported as adverse events, which resulted in imbalances between the BNT162 b2 group and the placebo group with respect to adverse events (30% vs. 14% related adverse events (24% vs. 6% and severe adverse events (1. 2% vs. 0. 7% New adverse events attributable to BNT162 b2 that were not previously identified in earlier reports included decreased appetite, lethargy, asthenia, malaise, night sweats, and hyperhidrosis. Few participants had serious adverse events or adverse events that led to trial withdrawal.

During the blinded, placebo-controlled period, 15 participants in the BNT162 b2 group and 14 in the placebo group died; during the open-label period, 3 participants in the BNT162 b2 group and 2 in the original placebo group who received BNT162 b2 after unblinding died. None of these deaths were considered to be related to BNT162 b2 by the investigators.

Then there was this study from 9 months earlier.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

The incidence of serious adverse events was low and was similar in the vaccine and placebo groups.

LOL Whoops!

And this was the line that got the vaccine approved: A two-dose regimen of BNT162 b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in persons 16 years of age or older.

The science is real, even if you can't understand it.

Yeah, this is such a Democratic douche thing to say by someone who thinks he is super smart because he reads the Times and watches MSNBC. If you told me that mRNA vaccines are the future because of politics, the media, and that people particularly Democratic douches still think of them as wonder drugs that saved millions of lives, we totally agree, but you mentioned science when you meant "science" and when I say "science", I mean political science based on feeling and not data.

Because any sane person who looks at the data and the projections made when the vaccines came out knows the vaccine is / was a fucking joke. Without the 3.5% death rate hysteria made up to get Trump out of office, these vaccines NEVER would have been approved nor should they have been.

And before you say the vaccines "worked" against Covid, keep in mind the all time high number of Covid cases by far were in Spring 2022 one year after the vaccines were made widely available. The boosters were made available because the vaccines were not working.