Stupid shit in Medellin

[Huacho]

No, I am very familiar with the subject. Please tell me though, what did the USA have to gain by engineering the "outcome" of the Mexican Revolution like you claim? Sorry, I meant to say I am not very familiar with the subject.

The president before Huerta, Madero, promised land reform including expropriating idle land, much of which was foreign owned. This was a threat to US, UK, German, etc., economic interests. Huerta had Madero killed, which Wilson liked, but then Huerta turned out to be a crazy, unreliable drunk and Wilson felt he could not 'control the country,' which also threatened US economic interests. So the US engineered the victory for Carranza against Villa and Zapata, because Carranza was a wealthy owner who supported the existing constitution vs. The proposed and eventual 1917 constitution allowing expropriation.

In the case of Guatemala and Juan Jacobo Árbenz Guzmáand, Árbenz in 1952 expropriated idle land from United Fruit Company and redistributed it to peasants for housing. Then he supported a wage increase from about fifty cents a (10 hour) day to about seventy-five cents a day. This was at a time when the US minimum wage was about the same per hour. The former president of United Fruit, Thomas Dulles, was the brother of US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. TD was still on the board of directors and JFD had previously been a board member. So they sent the CIA in, trained a force in Somoza's Nicaragua, and simply overthrew Árbenz. Somoza was another despot the Yew Ess supported, along with Noriega, José Efraíand Areíos Montt, etc.

Then the Yew Ess fucken exiled Árbenz, his wife, and his daughter to three different countries. Árbenz drank himself to death in México and his daughter committed suicide in Colombia. Not satisfied to have merely overthrown him, they persecuted him and his family for the rest of his life, running disinformation and smear campaigns.

And of course the CIA continued to overthrow freely elected presidents they deemed too progressive, such as Salvador Allende in Chile.

[RamDavidson84]

Actually Santa Anna was broke (again), NM's governor unilaterally declared parts of the Mesilla Valley to be part of the Yew Ess, and Stephen Douglas and William Walker were putting pressure on Mxico militarily. And this was only a few years after Guadalupe Hidalgo so the treaty was not 'negotiated. ' It was signed under duress. Just as was the Hay-Herran Treaty. After we offered Colombia either $25 or $75 million and they said no, we didn't negotiate. We just took it. See, for example:

Deeds, Susan M. (1996). "Gadsden Purchase". Encyclopedia of Latin American History and Culture. Vol. 3. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. Pp. 12.

Ibarra, Ignacio (February 12,2004). "Land sale still thorn to Mexico: Historians say United States imperialism behind treaty". Arizona Daily Star..

No, I am very familiar with the subject. Please tell me though, what did the USA have to gain by engineering the "outcome" of the Mexican Revolution like you claim?

Sorry, I meant to say I am not very familiar with the subject.

[RamDavidson84]

Don't misquote me. I said they engineered the outcome. But, there's plenty of evidence they did both.

I will admit I haven't studied the Mexican American War or the Mexican Revolution extensively. I will say though that its' absolutely pathetic if Mexico allowed another country to engineer the "outcome" of their revolution. Common sense tells me a nation as large as Mexico wouldn't allow such a thing to happen. I can't believe Mexicans are that stupid, weak, and gullible to allow the USA to do such a thing. Then again, they did roll over quite easily in the Mexican American War and the mighty Aztecs were conquered by a few hundred conquistadors and a few thousand slaves, so perhaps you are right.

Humans have a long history of greed fueling warfare and of course Americans are no stranger to this.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Did you know that almost 98% of the universe is hydrogen and helium?

So the other 2%, the minority elements are what give life and diversity to our universe. If there were no minorities, our world would be very boring and mundane indeed. Just leaving that one out there.

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/...ridemonth2022/

[ChuchoLoco]

The USA uses the IMF and World Bank and plain old intimidation to get compliance from other countries to follow its demands.

It's called Neo-Colonialism and it's economic control minus outright invasion. There's some videos and a book called "Economic Assassin " or something close that tells the story for anyone who may want to learn more.

[Huacho]

Do not rewrite history with non-sense like, "The USA engineered the Mexican Revolution". There is no evidence to support that statement.

Don't misquote me. I said they engineered the outcome. But, there's plenty of evidence they did both.

[Huacho]

The Gadsen Purchase was land Mexico peacefully sold to the USA.

Actually Santa Anna was broke (again), NM's governor unilaterally declared parts of the Mesilla Valley to be part of the Yew Ess, and Stephen Douglas and William Walker were putting pressure on México militarily. And this was only a few years after Guadalupe Hidalgo so the treaty was not 'negotiated. ' It was signed under duress. Just as was the Hay-Herran Treaty. After we offered Colombia either $25 or $75 million and they said no, we didn't negotiate. We just took it. See, for example:

Deeds, Susan M. (1996). "Gadsden Purchase". Encyclopedia of Latin American History and Culture. Vol. 3. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. Pp. 1–2.

Ibarra, Ignacio (February 12,2004). "Land sale still thorn to Mexico: Historians say United States imperialism behind treaty". Arizona Daily Star.

Do not rewrite history with non-sense like, "The USA engineered the Mexican Revolution". There is no evidence to support that statement.

Dude. Wilson backed Carranza against Villa and Zapata and sent troops in to México (that is known as an invasion) to overthrow Huerta. The US Navy shelled Veracruz. Do you truly not know this stuff? He sent General Pershing and 12,000 troops after Villa (unsuccessfully).

https://veteranmuseum.net/research-u...ons-in-mexico/#text=President%20 Woodrow%20 Wilson%20 was%20 reluctant, by%20 seizing%20 the%20 port%20 of.

One of the first things Wilson did after he was inaugurated was pressure him to resign, and imposed an arms embargo when he did not. Read Freidrich Katz's 'The Secret War in México,' or Alan Knight's 'The US and the Méxican Peasantry,' to give two of the many examples of evidence. Or just read this wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...can_Revolution

"the USA Navy bombarded the port of Veracruz and occupied Veracruz for seven months. Woodrow Wilson's actual motivation was his desire to overthrow Huerta.

Or: "The prevailing view among historians has been that Wilson interfered and intervened in México incessantly".

That's from 'Woodrow Wilson's Mexican Policy, 1913-1915' by KA Clements.

Maybe you prefer the Encyclopedia Britannica: 'The constitutionalist forces won the support of Woodrow Wilson, the new USA President, who refused to recognize Huerta, constitutionalist forces = Carranza.

And yeah, Panamá is now wealthy relative to most of Latin América. All of that should have accrued to Colombia. The efforts of de Lesseps shows that Colombia was willing to let a canal be built, just not for the price the Yew Ess was willing to pay.

You sound you still believe in 'manifest destiny' and appear to have no problems with the Monroe Doctrine. You should have been at Dien Bien Phu fighting for the French.

[JustTK]

How many countries is Venezuela allowed to trade with? Hmmm, are you sure its not corruption and socialism destroying the country? The USA only represents 5% of global population.

The USA uses the IMF and World Bank and plain old intimidation to get compliance from other countries to follow its demands.

[Elvis 2008]

Great speech by the president of Bolivia, about the growing popularity and power of political parties for the people in Latin America.

He calls for a shared homeland in South America. Hopefully Colombia will soon stop being the outtcast vassal state of the USA and join withtheir brothers and sisters to present a united front against oligarchy and exploitation of the people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kZhX_FuVU

JustTK, I put $1500 into a Bolivian fund that represented a wide variety of Bolivian businesses. The broker was surprisingly honest. That fund under Maduro eventually went to $0. Had I put that money in an equivalent American fund, it would be worth $4000 today. Around the same time, I bought a company in Chile. If I had bought $1500 it would have went to $5000. I bought a Venezuelan company that had the best numbers of any company I had ever seen. With that $1500, I got $2000 after Hugo Chavez bought it and nationalized it. I bought an Argentine company that had vast real estate holdings and the price of real estate in Argentina soared while the stock did not. That asset appreciation all went to the owners of the stock.

The shocking part to me was going to a Venezuelan shareholder meeting where I got to see up close and personal how Venezuelans were. Even though Venezuelan law stipulated that 25% of all net income had to be paid out in dividends and Verizon owned 24% of the stock, I had to listen to worker after worker * about money being sent to the Verizon gringos. The workers were mad that the law was being followed and money was "wasted" by being sent to the rich gringos at Verizon. Meanwhile, Verizon / GTE had sprung for all the infrastructure in the country. They had built a thriving business and it was doing so well that Chavez decided to come in and steal it. Instead of asking to buy the company from shareholders, Chavez demanded the company and paid $20 a share. It was my feeling that the current value of the stock was $100 and could go up to as high as $500, but the Venezuelans were so deeply entrenched with the gringo ripoff they had the belief Chavez would be better.

In the end, Chavez tried to pull the same shit with oil companies. The world was thinking peak oil and Chavez thought companies like Exxon had to deal with them. Nope. Exxon invested in the USA and shale tech. Thing is the cost of production is 20 X that of the USA then it is in Venezuela but they knew how Chavez was. He would never keep his word. Every time, he would claim a company was cheating Venezuela, he would come in and either steal it or give pennies on the dollar. It was not just the gringos. The Chinese put a billion into a poultry farm and even had Chinese workers, and the Venezuelans managed to bankrupt that operation.

In the end, Venezuela, which has the largest oil reserves in the world, has seen their production shrink to just a trickle. By controlling every facet of the economy it left Chavez no competition for power, and the guy who so hated money and the rich so much smuggled $8 billion in cash and put it in his daughter's name who lives in the gringo city of Miami.

So how is Bolivia accomplishing an economic miracle when it is doing all it can to steal from investors? It is the same as Venezuela. Chavez got rid of all the legal businesses but the drug trade fought him and was allowed to flourish, and this current Bolivian president is talking about growing "legitimate" cocoa. Give me a fucking break. The Bolivian economic miracle is due to nothing but cocaine sales. If the USA ever got its head out of its ass and allowed drugs to be sold like it did with marijuana, the USA would be exporting cocaine to Bolivia because we could probably produce it better and cheaper than Bolivia could.

When I hear the rallying cry that government is the answer to everything and gringos are evil, I can scratch off investing a nickel into that country. Venezuela should be as rich as Saudi Arabia, and the reason it is not because people like me will never put one penny into until the culture is changed. The easiest way to have a poor country is saying government is going to fill all the people's needs. That shows contempt for those investors and managers who develop businesses that really cater to people's needs.

[Villainy]

How many countries is Venezuela allowed to trade with? Hmmm, are you sure its not corruption and socialism destroying the country? The USA only represents 5% of global population.

I'm sure. Venezuela is a rank dictatorship propped up by the military. The US is more 'socialist' than Venezuela.

[RamDavidson84]

It must be reassuring for you to know that the facts of modern day Vnzla are held in a fictional book written 70 years ago. And in the anecdotal knowledge of some girl that you know. I used to think that history was written by the vicstors of war, but clearly I was wrong. It was indeed written by some foreign gent 70 years before the event and by some random bird you met on your travels. Now that sounds like an episode for a new Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy book. Hehe.

How many countries is Venezuela allowed to trade with? Hmmm, are you sure its not corruption and socialism destroying the country? The USA only represents 5% of global population.

[RamDavidson84]

We were especially kind to Colombia by relieving it of Panam by starting a fake revolution, and perhaps even kinder to Guatemala by using the CIA to overthrow their freely elected president. And obviously we were a godsend to Mxico by stealing half their territory via the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the Gadsden Purchase. Just before gold was discovered at Sutter's Mill. Mxico didn't need all that gold or the ports and coast of California and Oregon anyway. Nor the minerals in CO or AZ. The noble citizens of the Yew Ess deserved it much more because of Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine. And of course the Yew Ess engineered the outcome of the Mexican Revolution, whereupon the candidate they supported ran off with the entire treasury and was killed by his own security detail.

We did a bunch of noble shit in Chile too, assassinating their freely elected president. The Yew Ess is really a godsend to so may places, like Vietnam. Just so very noble, all that happened there.

Colombia refused to negotiate with the world to create the Panama Canal, so the Panamanians struck a deal to get the canal built and create a new nation. They then built the canal for the benefit of the world and the people of that region who still benefit from its' profits to this day. Look how much more wealthy Panama is compared to other Latin American nations. The world needed that shipping route and Colombia was standing in the way of global progress. I still don't condone the way it was done, but this did also take place during the "Age of Imperialism" when the strength of a bad actor's military was still mightier than the pen, this was just a reality of the time period. The United States using its' size and strength was not unique to just the USA, but all the world's most powerful nations.

Did Mexico have the means to extract and utilize the natural resources and bring civility and infrastructure to the lands in its' Northern Territories? No, they had 300 years to do it and they had just a few thousand settlers living there. For years, the USA pleaded with Mexico to allow the USA to purchase it's territory to build railroads which crossed the continent so the continent could be settled and cities and towns built where civilized modern societies could proser, but Mexico refused over and over again. This doesn't justify the war and it is still fucked up how the USA and Mexico settled this issue with violence, but again, this occurred almost 200 years ago in a very different time period and if you were not working tirelessly to defend and secure your territory, you were going to lose it. This was typical among all societies all over the world, look at the wars of Napoleon in Europe and the various conflicts and revolutions of South America. This is why Mexico quickly realized the war was not worth it and quickly surrendered and negotiated to sell these lands to the USA. And all that being said, I don't condone anything about the Mexican American War, but there is much more to it, than Americans are evil and took Advantage of Mexico. Do Americans still to this day sit around and cry about the "War of 1812" because the British attacked us and we blame all our problems on the British from wars that occurred 100,150, or 200 years ago- no we don't, because its silly.

The Gadsen Purchase was land Mexico peacefully sold to the USA.

Do not rewrite history with non-sense like, "The USA engineered the Mexican Revolution". There is no evidence to support that statement.

[Mr Enternational]

In fact, there are not many countries in the region that have not benefitted from the hand of the USA.

There is nothing for free. It is all give and get. China has started their thing in Africa and people are talking about how the Chinese are taking advantage of whatever. Depends on perspective. If the people were there thousands of years doing nothing with the resources and living in what some say are substandard conditions and some outsider comes and raises their standard of living while at the same time taking the resources that were laying there unused, is that a robbery?

Personally, I think it was genius that DeBeers convinced Westerners that a hole full of shiny rocks was worth something. Is it their fault that the natives did not think of it first?

[JustTK]

We were especially kind to Colombia by relieving it of Panama by starting a fake revolution, and perhaps even kinder to Guatemala by using the CIA to overthrow their freely elected president. And obviously we were a godsend to Mexico by stealing half their territory via the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the Gadsden Purchase. Just before gold was discovered at Sutter's Mill. Mexico didn't need all that gold or the ports and coast of California and Oregon anyway. Nor the minerals in CO or AZ. And of course the Yew Ess engineered the outcome of the Mexican Revolution, whereupon the candidate they supported ran off with the entire treasury and was killed by his own security detail.
We did a bunch of noble shit in Chile too, assassinating their freely elected president. The Yew Ess is really a godsend to so may places, like Vietnam.

And Dom Rep, Hiaiti, Nicaragua, Honduras, Granada, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, Paraguay. And that's just the past 100 years. The USA is the benevolent friend of all in Latinland, a real godsend. In fact, there are not many countries in the region that have not benefitted from the hand of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ary_operations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._regime_change#1917:_Costa_Rica.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ

[JustTK]

You need to read the book Animal Farm.

You have just tried to rewrite history here my friend and I just want to clarify the facts. I was dating a Venezulan chica on and off when all this was going on. She eventually went back to her family in Caracas but we kept in touch for years and she was telling about what was happening as it happen.

Fact: The reason that the Venezualen economy collapsed was because Hugo Chavez put "price controls" in place and merchants could no longer charge enough for their products to get what they needed to resupply with imports. Because price controls are a fantasy. All this happened at least 5 years before the US put any sanctions on them meanwhile the governement officals all live like oligarchs in Venezuela.

It must be reassuring for you to know that the facts of modern day Vnzla are held in a fictional book written 70 years ago. And in the anecdotal knowledge of some girl that you know. I used to think that history was written by the vicstors of war, but clearly I was wrong. It was indeed written by some foreign gent 70 years before the event and by some random bird you met on your travels. Now that sounds like an episode for a new Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy book. Hehe.