Rants, Stupid Shit and Coronavirus in Thailand

[CzarNicholas]

I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33), it was my first visit. I had read about the place on the forums here, and the reviews I saw were positive. I chose a girl called 'Soda' from the photos on their iPad, was told strictly money up front so paid the THB 1.3 k fee (all subsequent prices are in THB) as shown on the menu for a BJ, and made a point of asking the cashier (in Thai) if the service was for CIM, and she confirmed that it was. I rarely pay up front for my mongering, you lose control over the situation.

There is a notice on the pay desk in 7-Heaven stating no refunds, but I thought at 1. 3 k I did not have much to lose. So Soda came out and escorted me upstairs into a spare room, she looked more or less as she did in the pic on the iPad, slim, fairly pretty, probably late twenties. I made a point of asking her, in Thai, if the service included CIM and she confirmed that it was..

I feel your pain.

But just a warning to everyone out there, if I'm ever pointing a gun at someone and they make this comment to me, they are going to have their brains splattered all over the walls in about 0.5 seconds! "are you going to use it, go on then".

Its game over!

Were you drunk?

Why would you say that to somebody with a pistol in your face?

[EihTooms]

-snip-

However, IMHO, in such places, if any sexual activity happens (which it clearly did) and you do ejaculate, you're not entitled to a refund if you're unhappy with exactly how it went. You can ask, of course, and they should oblige if they're customer-minded, but you're not really entitled to one.

With all due respect, my opinion is it very much matters how and where one ejaculates when a BBBJ+CIM has been agreed to. I suppose an exception might be when a punter is so fast on the trigger that he ejaculates before the requested act even begins. Or if he is the one who changes direction of things and goes for FS or whatever.

But in the case of a BBBJ+CIM, if the girl agrees to provide a CIM finish for the money and she dodges or pulls away at crunch time as she did in this case, she did not provide what he paid for and I think he is very much entitled to a refund.

Normal restaurant analogies don't exactly work re certain sexual acts like a BBBJ+CIM. After all, when a tray of food is placed before us and it is clearly not what we ordered, that is the moment to point it out and get the order right. If we see that a Big Mac was placed on the tray instead of the Filet o' Fish we ordered but we gobble it down anyway, we are not entitled to a refund. We got food in our mouth and our belly. We ought to pay for it. It doesn't matter if it wasn't what we ordered once we have eaten it.

But that isn't how the moment of ejaculation works at the end of a blowjob. Once an orgasm is on its way, there is no stopping it to have a discussion with the lady about her getting the order wrong and please bring me a Filet o' Fish instead of a Big Mac, I'll wait.

So, with that huge difference in mind, here is a different kind of restaurant analogy re a BBBJ+CIM; If you were blind, ordered a Filet o' Fish, was assured by the server that the sandwich in that wrapper on your tray is indeed a Filet o' Fish and definitely not a Big Mac, but after taking a big bite of the thing and some of it going down your throat you realized you'd been lied to, then imo you definitely deserve a refund. Even though just like the example above you got food in your mouth and down your throat. The huge difference being you did not know until it was too late that you'd been lied to and did not get what you ordered.

And, no, I don't think that restaurant analogy works further with regard to simply getting your Filet o' Fish order right after you've taken a bite of a Big Mac. Most male humans will not have another orgasm the "right way" within minutes of having one the way he did not want it. It isn't the same as just taking one bite out of a sandwich and then trading it in for another one. Besides, in the case of that BJ Bar I seriously doubt anyone would have offered the customer another BJ to "have it your way" within minutes of getting it the wrong way.

[Whoreman]

If anything, at that moment, I was not scared and I'm sure he sensed that I was not scared, he looked like a little wimp, he was about a foot shorter than me, skinny, and in his 30's (I'm in my early 60's and of slim / average build). He really did not look the part, waving his gun about, rather I think he felt like a big man because he had a gun. I said to him "are you going to use it, go on then" but he backed down, I had a gut feeling that he was more mouth than action, maybe the gun was not loaded, though of course I could have been wrong and he could have shot me.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and there are daily news reports of Thai men with guns losing their tempers and murdering friends and family members and neighbours, and it is never wise to cause a Thai man to lose face or lose their temper.

I think your actions are basically justified although I can't say I would have done the same thing. Some French guy got shot by an off-duty policeman over some love triangle recently but I'm sure the guy pointing the gun at you didn't want to go to jail over a 1300 baht blow job so in that situation it's almost certainly a bluff. Good to hear that the police helped you out. I assume it was the regular police rather than the tourist police. I agree that you should press charges rather than let it drop.

[Pointy Stick]

I would highly suggest others not to try this. All the money in the world is not worth your life, simply my 2 cents.

Agreed. My life is worth more than 1300 baht. If the dude really didn't look the part and actually felt threatened then there is a higher chance he would have used the firearm.

[Crocodilexp]

I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33)

He really did not look the part, waving his gun about, rather I think he felt like a big man because he had a gun.

Thank you for sharing this, it's good to know how far things can go, and it's useful to know the name of the shop so we can all keep our distance from it.

What you did was crazy brave, for no benefit whatsoever. I'm sure you're already aware of all that you did wrong, but one thing you did right is calling the police after being thereatned with a gun. That's a serious crime (counts as "assault with a deadly weapon" in most countries, even if it's just a threat and he didn't actually shoot), and shouldn't casually be allowed to slide, not even in Thailand.

The big "no refund" sign is a big red flag, it shows that people have been dissatisfied and asked for a refund before, probably on multiple occasions. However, IMHO, in such places, if any sexual activity happens (which it clearly did) and you do ejaculate, you're not entitled to a refund if you're unhappy with exactly how it went. You can ask, of course, and they should oblige if they're customer-minded, but you're not really entitled to one. I'm surprised the police actually negotiated a partial refund for you, it's probably because the shop pays money to their station, and they preferred not to deal with the assault charges (which are the real issue here).

[Franciscass]

Seems to me MD was being unreasonable in the room and I can imagine the girl being frightened of his behavior. Did he reserve a refund umm doubtful?

How he handled it back at reception is another question. Demanding a refund for a service paid for and you feel was not delivered is perfectly fair. What do you do if it is refused? Simply walk away post on ISG and chalk it up to experience. I don't think so.

As I said I feel he was out of order in the room but I applaud him standing up to intimidation. Meekly walking away because you are afraid of the consequences some say is smart, for me its cowardice.

He read the situation correctly and got half his money back.

Giving it to the police was a big mistake.

[Mdemde]

Not something either one of us would recommend to anyone else, right?

Absolutely not! I posted here, not to brag, but simply to let others know about what had happened. If anything, it was more about my stupidity than bravery!

With that in mind, it's great to hear the shop lost a lot of business defending and protecting that little scammer. I hope they took all of the refund out of her portion of the Pay Upfront bill.

My guess is that out of the THB1.3 k fee that the shop takes from a customer, the shop takes at least 800. But whatever amount they take, I can guarantee that the shop kept the 650 they had from me, and would in no way have given anything to the girl. And the chances are that they would have fined her for the loss of business they suffered when they had to turn customers away when I was sounding off!

[Mdemde]

Man, that's some balls you have. Happy to hear that drama turned out so good.

Actually I'd say it's not about my balls, rather it was more about the Thai man with the gun being a weasel who I felt posed no threat to me. Yes, he had a gun, but he felt no more threatening to me at the time than an old granny with a rolled-up newspaper! Some people have an air of menace about them, and have an intimidating presence, but that Thai man looked and acted more like an immature kid than someone willing to use a gun. I really don't think he had the balls to use it, but if he had I really don't know how I would have reacted. There is a possibility that the gun was not loaded, or was not a real gun, but I do know for a fact that Thailand has a lot of guns, and a lot of people carry them.

I have thought about the incident a lot since it happened. If he had fired a warning shot, would I have left? Or would I have jumped on him to try and overpower him? If he had fired at me but missed, would I have left, or would I have jumped on him and tried to overpower him? I think a lot of men are capable of murder, it depends on the circumstances, if I had, at the moment he pointed his gun at me, felt threatened and in fear of my life, maybe I would have jumped on him and it would have been a kill or be killed situation. At the moment when he pointed the gun at me, if I had reacted by trying to jump him or by pulling out a knife or gun, maybe he would have felt threatened and in fear of his life and reacted by shooting me. But at no time did I do anything to cause him to fear for his life.

I have never been mugged, or had a knife pulled on me, and up till Monday night had never had a gun pulled on me. How would I react if a similar situation were to occur again? I really don't know but hope it doesn't, because I don't go around looking for trouble. All I wanted on Monday night was a BJ!

[Gargano19]

I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33), it was my first visit. I had read about the place on the forums here, and the reviews I saw were positive. I chose a girl called 'Soda' from the photos on their iPad, was told strictly money up front so paid the THB 1.3 k fee (all subsequent prices are in THB) as shown on the menu for a BJ, and made a point of asking the cashier (in Thai) if the service was for CIM, and she confirmed that it was. I rarely pay up front for my mongering, you lose control over the situation.

There is a notice on the pay desk in 7-Heaven stating no refunds, but I thought at 1. 3 k I did not have much to lose. So Soda came out and escorted me upstairs into a spare room, she looked more or less as she did in the pic on the iPad, slim, fairly pretty, probably late twenties. I made a point of asking her, in Thai, if the service included CIM and she confirmed that it was. She gave junior a wash, took her top off and got to work.

About half way thru the BJ her attitude, which had been OK up till that point, changed, from the moment when I told her I wanted to change from lying down on the bed to sitting down at the edge of the bed and for her to get down on her knees. She seemed to be under the impression that she was doing me a favour by giving me a BJ, and that I should do as I was told.

She kept trying to put one hand on junior whilst she had it in her mouth, presumably to stop it going in all the way, and I kept taking her hand away and putting her hands on my legs. I did not forcefully grab her hands, just gently moved them away. Anyway, she got me to about 95%, and I took hold of junior to give him a couple of tugs to get him ready, and after about 20 seconds he was set to explode so I let him go and gently tried to put him inside her mouth, all the while she was still on her hands and knees and her face was no more than a foot away from junior. She grabbed hold of him and would not let him inside her mouth! Junior is of average size, but if he was 15 inches I could have understood her reluctance to let him in! I tried to take her hand off so as I could stick him inside her mouth but it was too late, junior started to 'leak' and she backed off and made it clear that the session was over and stood up. I gave junior a few tugs and finished myself off and I shouted out, in annoyance, asking "why did you do that" and "why wouldn't you let me CIM", and she grabbed her top and left the room.

I was really pissed off and kept shouting, which is the worst thing you can do in Thailand, all disputes should be settled without shouting or raising your voice, no matter what the provocation, it's the Thai way of doing things. Then the female manager came up and asked that I go downstairs to sort it out.

So I went downstairs and explained what had happened and said she needed to give me a full refund, but she pointed to the NO REFUND sign and refused. I raised my voice again and yes, I know I should not have done so! I made it clear I was not going to leave unless I had a full refund. I told her to call the police, she said OK and made a phone call. I had no way of knowing who she called, but a few minutes later a Thai man came in, asked what the problem was, I told him I had already explained to the manager and that I wanted a refund. He pointed to the sign, I raised my voice again and told him I was not going anywhere without a full refund, he then shouted back and told me to "get out" and pulled out a gun! This was in full view of the manager and about six girls who had come to the waiting area to see what all the commotion was about. He cocked it back, and pointed it at me and waved it at me, but I stood my ground and faced him down. Was it bravery on my part? Or stupidity? I have never had a gun pulled on me before, but I did not actually feel threatened.

If anything, at that moment, I was not scared and I'm sure he sensed that I was not scared, he looked like a little wimp, he was about a foot shorter than me, skinny, and in his 30's (I'm in my early 60's and of slim / average build). He really did not look the part, waving his gun about, rather I think he felt like a big man because he had a gun. I said to him "are you going to use it, go on then" but he backed down, I had a gut feeling that he was more mouth than action, maybe the gun was not loaded, though of course I could have been wrong and he could have shot me.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and there are daily news reports of Thai men with guns losing their tempers and murdering friends and family members and neighbours, and it is never wise to cause a Thai man to lose face or lose their temper. I have had other disputes in bars, but have always managed to remain calm, and have always managed to resolve the problem, always in my favour, by being calm, polite, and persistent, but last night I was really pissed off.

Anyway, after a few minutes things got a bit calmer and I asked the Thai man who he was, the manager, the owner, or who? He said he was a policeman, I told him "no you're not", and I asked the manager who he was and she also said he was a policeman. No way was he a policeman. I told the manager that I was going to call the police, and I did and told them I had been threatened by a man with a gun and that I had been denied a service in a massage shop and refused a refund. A few minutes later the man with the gun left the shop. If he had been a real policeman he would have hung around until the police showed up.

I was in the waiting area in the shop until about 10 pm when six police showed up, and during the time before they arrived three customers came in but were told by the manager that they were closed (they actually close at midnight), she sent them away because of the continuing noisy argument I was having with her, it never looks good from a customer point of view when you walk in and there is an irate customer sounding off, the manager even told me I was causing them a loss of business, and that made me more determined to keep at it! They refused me a 1.3 k refund but lost at least 3.9 k worth of business!

So, I politely and calmly explained to the police about the man with the gun, asked them if they were aware that it was a BJ shop (they were) and then explained about the failure of the shop to provide the CIM service I had paid for and the refusal by the shop to refund me. They then talked with the female manager. The police asked me what I wanted, I told them I wanted a full refund (I had already made up my mind to accept at least half back, I knew it would end up as haggle, it always does), they suggested to the shop a 50% refund and asked me if I would accept that, I said I would. The manager then said 500, I said no, 650, and that was it, the manager gave me a refund of 650 and I thanked the police and left. I heard two of the policeman questioning the manager about the man with the gun, wanting to know who he was, I'm certain that they would have found out who he was and had a word with him, I doubt if he would have been arrested, rather I think the police would have shaken him down for some money for his recklessness.

When I got outside I waited for a few minutes for the police to come out, two of them did and I thanked them again and told them I didn't want the money and tried to give it to one of them, but it was politely refused. I set off and had just got back to the top of soi 33 near Sukhumvit when the same two police rode up and stopped alongside me on their motorbike to ask me if all was OK, and if everything was all right, I said yes, thanked them, and said I really do not want the money and gave it to one of them, he smiled and thanked me and took it! I thanked them again, and they rode off, and I headed down to soi Cowboy in a taxi to finish the evening off.

I would highly suggest others not to try this. All the money in the world is not worth your life, simply my 2 cents.

[Marky1]

I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33), it was my first visit. I had read about the place on the forums here, and the reviews I saw were positive. I chose a girl called 'Soda' from the photos on their iPad, was told strictly money up front so paid the THB 1.3 k fee (all subsequent prices are in THB) as shown on the menu for a BJ, and made a point of asking the cashier (in Thai) if the service was for CIM, and she confirmed that it was. I rarely pay up front for my mongering, you lose control over the situation.

There is a notice on the pay desk in 7-Heaven stating no refunds, but I thought at 1. 3 k I did not have much to lose. So Soda came out and escorted me upstairs into a spare room, she looked more or less as she did in the pic on the iPad, slim, fairly pretty, probably late twenties. I made a point of asking her, in Thai, if the service included CIM and she confirmed that it was. She gave junior a wash, took her top off and got to work.

About half way thru the BJ her attitude, which had been OK up till that point, changed, from the moment when I told her I wanted to change from lying down on the bed to sitting down at the edge of the bed and for her to get down on her knees. She seemed to be under the impression that she was doing me a favour by giving me a BJ, and that I should do as I was told..

Well done for standing your ground. If more people stood their ground, there would be less scams / stealing in bars, by girls, by taxis.

[Member #4698]

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

If the original post does not belong in the "Stupid Shit in Thailand" thread I don't know what does.

Do you remember a few years back there was an incident that made all the BKK newpapers and internet. Apparently an expat got into a heated argument with a taxi driver half his size. The driver stopped his car, picked up a machete in the trunk, and hacked the expat to death. What a way to go! But not more stupid than arguing at gun point in a blow job bar with a Thai pimp over $20. Bravo!

[Rick Rock]

I have lived in Thailand for many years .

Far too many by the sounds of it.

[Dg8787]

I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33), it was my first visit. I had read about the place on the forums here, and the reviews I saw were positive. I chose a girl called 'Soda' from the photos on their iPad, was told strictly money up front so paid the THB 1.3 k fee (all subsequent prices are in THB) as shown on the menu for a BJ, and made a point of asking the cashier (in Thai) if the service was for CIM, and she confirmed that it was. I rarely pay up front for my mongering, you lose control over the situation.

There is a notice on the pay desk in 7-Heaven stating no refunds, but I thought at 1. 3 k I did not have much to lose. So Soda came out and escorted me upstairs into a spare room, she looked more or less as she did in the pic on the iPad, slim, fairly pretty, probably late twenties. I made a point of asking her, in Thai, if the service included CIM and she confirmed that it was. She gave junior a wash, took her top off and got to work.

About half way thru the BJ her attitude, which had been OK up till that point, changed, from the moment when I told her I wanted to change from lying down on the bed to sitting down at the edge of the bed and for her to get down on her knees. She seemed to be under the impression that she was doing me a favour by giving me a BJ, and that I should do as I was told.

She kept trying to put one hand on junior whilst she had it in her mouth, presumably to stop it going in all the way, and I kept taking her hand away and putting her hands on my legs. I did not forcefully grab her hands, just gently moved them away. Anyway, she got me to about 95%, and I took hold of junior to give him a couple of tugs to get him ready, and after about 20 seconds he was set to explode so I let him go and gently tried to put him inside her mouth, all the while she was still on her hands and knees and her face was no more than a foot away from junior. She grabbed hold of him and would not let him inside her mouth! Junior is of average size, but if he was 15 inches I could have understood her reluctance to let him in! I tried to take her hand off so as I could stick him inside her mouth but it was too late, junior started to 'leak' and she backed off and made it clear that the session was over and stood up. I gave junior a few tugs and finished myself off and I shouted out, in annoyance, asking "why did you do that" and "why wouldn't you let me CIM", and she grabbed her top and left the room.

I was really pissed off and kept shouting, which is the worst thing you can do in Thailand, all disputes should be settled without shouting or raising your voice, no matter what the provocation, it's the Thai way of doing things. Then the female manager came up and asked that I go downstairs to sort it out.

So I went downstairs and explained what had happened and said she needed to give me a full refund, but she pointed to the NO REFUND sign and refused. I raised my voice again and yes, I know I should not have done so! I made it clear I was not going to leave unless I had a full refund. I told her to call the police, she said OK and made a phone call. I had no way of knowing who she called, but a few minutes later a Thai man came in, asked what the problem was, I told him I had already explained to the manager and that I wanted a refund. He pointed to the sign, I raised my voice again and told him I was not going anywhere without a full refund, he then shouted back and told me to "get out" and pulled out a gun! This was in full view of the manager and about six girls who had come to the waiting area to see what all the commotion was about. He cocked it back, and pointed it at me and waved it at me, but I stood my ground and faced him down. Was it bravery on my part? Or stupidity? I have never had a gun pulled on me before, but I did not actually feel threatened.

If anything, at that moment, I was not scared and I'm sure he sensed that I was not scared, he looked like a little wimp, he was about a foot shorter than me, skinny, and in his 30's (I'm in my early 60's and of slim / average build). He really did not look the part, waving his gun about, rather I think he felt like a big man because he had a gun. I said to him "are you going to use it, go on then" but he backed down, I had a gut feeling that he was more mouth than action, maybe the gun was not loaded, though of course I could have been wrong and he could have shot me.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and there are daily news reports of Thai men with guns losing their tempers and murdering friends and family members and neighbours, and it is never wise to cause a Thai man to lose face or lose their temper. I have had other disputes in bars, but have always managed to remain calm, and have always managed to resolve the problem, always in my favour, by being calm, polite, and persistent, but last night I was really pissed off.

Anyway, after a few minutes things got a bit calmer and I asked the Thai man who he was, the manager, the owner, or who? He said he was a policeman, I told him "no you're not", and I asked the manager who he was and she also said he was a policeman. No way was he a policeman. I told the manager that I was going to call the police, and I did and told them I had been threatened by a man with a gun and that I had been denied a service in a massage shop and refused a refund. A few minutes later the man with the gun left the shop. If he had been a real policeman he would have hung around until the police showed up.

I was in the waiting area in the shop until about 10 pm when six police showed up, and during the time before they arrived three customers came in but were told by the manager that they were closed (they actually close at midnight), she sent them away because of the continuing noisy argument I was having with her, it never looks good from a customer point of view when you walk in and there is an irate customer sounding off, the manager even told me I was causing them a loss of business, and that made me more determined to keep at it! They refused me a 1.3 k refund but lost at least 3.9 k worth of business!

So, I politely and calmly explained to the police about the man with the gun, asked them if they were aware that it was a BJ shop (they were) and then explained about the failure of the shop to provide the CIM service I had paid for and the refusal by the shop to refund me. They then talked with the female manager. The police asked me what I wanted, I told them I wanted a full refund (I had already made up my mind to accept at least half back, I knew it would end up as haggle, it always does), they suggested to the shop a 50% refund and asked me if I would accept that, I said I would. The manager then said 500, I said no, 650, and that was it, the manager gave me a refund of 650 and I thanked the police and left. I heard two of the policeman questioning the manager about the man with the gun, wanting to know who he was, I'm certain that they would have found out who he was and had a word with him, I doubt if he would have been arrested, rather I think the police would have shaken him down for some money for his recklessness.

When I got outside I waited for a few minutes for the police to come out, two of them did and I thanked them again and told them I didn't want the money and tried to give it to one of them, but it was politely refused. I set off and had just got back to the top of soi 33 near Sukhumvit when the same two police rode up and stopped alongside me on their motorbike to ask me if all was OK, and if everything was all right, I said yes, thanked them, and said I really do not want the money and gave it to one of them, he smiled and thanked me and took it! I thanked them again, and they rode off, and I headed down to soi Cowboy in a taxi to finish the evening off.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

I wouldn't call that balls. Plain stupidity in a foreign country. I have done some similar stupid things but not to that point. I knew when to walk away. It was only small money. Not even worth the risk. Upside was very small. No John Wayne here.

Newbies disregard his post.

My 2 baht advice is to put in your will for cremation to save on cost, time and shipping back to home country.

[Nyezhov]

Man, that's some balls you have. Happy to hear that drama turned out so good.

I call it stupidity / arrogance tempered with luck.

[EihTooms]

-snip-

I have lived in Thailand for many years and there are daily news reports of Thai men with guns losing their tempers and murdering friends and family members and neighbours, and it is never wise to cause a Thai man to lose face or lose their temper. I have had other disputes in bars, but have always managed to remain calm, and have always managed to resolve the problem, always in my favour, by being calm, polite, and persistent, but last night I was really pissed off.

-snip-

I was in the waiting area in the shop until about 10 pm when six police showed up, and during the time before they arrived three customers came in but were told by the manager that they were closed (they actually close at midnight), she sent them away because of the continuing noisy argument I was having with her, it never looks good from a customer point of view when you walk in and there is an irate customer sounding off, the manager even told me I was causing them a loss of business, and that made me more determined to keep at it! They refused me a 1.3 k refund but lost at least 3.9 k worth of business!

-snip-

Yep, after living here a while there are times when our understanding and appreciation for the "Thai way" just reaches a breaking point and we snap. I have certainly snapped a few times, raised my voice beyond all local norms, shouted back at nosy busy-body taxi drivers who linger in front of the hotels on my soi to SHUT THE FUCK UP! after one of them said something cute in Thai about having seen me with so many ladies when I walked by with a new one and the others laughed (they have never done it again. none of them), stood my ground in go-go bars demanding a refund same as you did in the BJ Bar (but never had a gun pulled on me!) and so on.

Not something either one of us would recommend to anyone else, right? And I do remind myself to be more careful next time after I have snapped. But your reading of the situation and feelings were right this time. Mine have been right about it so far, too. So far.

With that in mind, it's great to hear the shop lost a lot of business defending and protecting that little scammer. I hope they took all of the refund out of her portion of the Pay Upfront bill. I don't recall Paying Upfront at a BJ Bar in the past. But I can tell you that unless the BJ that follows me Paying Upfront is one of the best I have ever experienced in a year, I would never go back to such a shop a second time.