Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Elvis 2008]

For whatever reasons they want this crazy war to continue. The funny part is they all claim Trump / Putin will go to jail, but Pres Z. , will probably be the one that ends up in jail or killed. The sooner this happens the better off we will be. What a disaster and all the blame goes the Democratic's / the Euros.

Yeah, Tucker Carlson was asking this too. WTF was the purpose of this? With the Covid vaccines and children, it was bureaucrats pushing the vaccine so the drug companies could make billions while putting millions in the pockets of the bureaucrats. If anyone does not see that now, they are a sap.

After the Putin interview, it was obvious Putin wants the war to end, and the neocons and defense contractors want it to keep going. I suspect some day we will learn of the same billions / millions split here as well, and in both cases, these parties do not give a fuck about all the bodies they leave behind.

[Elvis 2008]

But you know we get it, to you the Dems and Neo-cons are the bad guys while Putin and the "America First" right wing crowd in the states along with similar groups in Europe are good and honorable.

There were tens of millions of people who voted for Trump. Russiagate was a made up bullshit attempt to get those votes tossed in the trash and have Trump ousted. The media was flooded with Russia, Russia, Russia for years.

Then came Covid with the most arrogant antivaxxer shit attached to it. Children were lined up to get vaccinated or shamed for not doing so. Why? For them? Or because some in the deep state profited off of the vaccine? There was no explanation for why children needed to be vaccinated, just sheer arrogance.

Then Covid is flung off the front page and it is Ukraine all day every day. Zelensky is not a comedian playing a piano with his dick. He is now a modern day Jesus. Yellow and blue ribbons are everywhere. Money flows to Zelensky just like it did with the vaccines and Covid. Anyone questioning that money is deemed a nut job.

Then the facts dribble out. The whole notion that Russia is going into Paris and beyond fizzles out. The questions about what victory means are raised and about why there is so much concern about the borders in Ukraine and not our own.

And why is so much fucking money going to Ukraine? What the fuck does it have to do with us? And it really comes down to one question: Is Putin going to invade Europe and start World War 3? Putin answered that Russia invading Europe is fucking crazy. He said the fear mongering going on is to extract money from American and European taxpayers.

The real tell for me with Putin though was when he was asked about the Nordstream pipeline and who blew it up. Putin could have laid out the same factual basis Seymour Hersh did in his reporting, but he does not. He says look at who said they were going to blow up the pipeline and look at who is capable of doing it. Here is a guy who could easily justify a war with Europe as the blowing up of the pipeline was an act of war, and he does not go there.

And then you have Peter Zeihan saying the Polish flag has flown over Moscow before and may again, and Poland is now buying up tons and tons of tanks and actually predicting that Poland might get together with other nations and invade Russia. It is getting more and more obvious which side in this conflict wants war.

And then there was the response from the Democrats and the media, and it was the same as with Covid and Russiagate. Putin is a liar. He is a war criminal. Tucker Carlson asked softball questions (even before the interview was aired). Tucker Carlson should be banned from Europe. He is not a journalist. It is arrogance with no basis in fact. There is just shouting down or banning anyone who disagrees with the now obviously flawed narrative.

We have seen this movie before. In fact, we already know the ending. When we ask what did we get for our money spent in Ukraine, or on the Covid vaccines, or on the Russiagate probe, we will be shushed away as if that huge waste of time and money never happened and lectured and shamed on this new great danger we have to spend billions on no questions asked.

[Paulie97]

The Minsk agreements related to cease fires. Russian backed separatists agreed to the first but not the second, obviously because it involved Ukrainian control of their land, the Donbass, and with elections to follow. That's all neither here nor there though to the Russia-Ukraine Friendship agreement of 1999 of which solidified Ukrainian territory, and that of course includes the Donbass and Crimea. You've yet to comment on this 1999 agreement, but did answer my other question.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ct-2022-02-21/

Regarding Putins historic claims to Ukraine for Russia, here's a concise rebuttal.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/0...inian-history/

Even if Putin were correct this doesn't remove Ukraine's right to the territory that was guaranteed in the Russia-Ukraine Friendship agreement of 1999. And like it or not, Ukrainians are a separate people, with their own language, traditional dress, national heros, myths, historic national songs, art, literature, etc. That make up a distinct people. P.S. I'll add that any in the Donbass or Crimea that want to be Russian don't have far to travel as Russia is very close. They haven't any right to steal land. While only a handful of countries recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea. It's hardly an impressive list and includes Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua.

But you know we get it, to you the Dems and Neo-cons are the bad guys while Putin and the "America First" right wing crowd in the states along with similar groups in Europe are good and honorable.

I personally consider Putin a war criminal that has murdered civilians with precision weapons while exporting Ukrainian children to indoctrination camps. I'm also convinced that the likelihood of him honoring any ceasefire agreements are practically zero. I consider myself an independent and a moderate.

DiVinci feel free to archive these links and any others you find. I'm way behind on work around the house, so may not be around for at least a few days.

[DramaFree11]

Xpartan's link to Putin's lies referred to Putin's verbal history of the region. It was not exactly titillating stuff.

What lies are you talking about? Did Ukraine violate the Minsk agreement? Do neonazis not exist in Ukraine? Was the Dombas bombed by Ukraine? Didn't Boris Johnson scuttle peace talks?

The best I have seen is that Russia was violating the Minsk agreement as well, but tThis is the EXACT same attitude you lefties took with Russiagate and now you still do not fess up that it was all bullshit. So you Dems and your intelligence agencies need to do one helluva lot better with explaining yourselves than the same old cocky we know best attitude because we have seen that movie before, and whether you like it or not, on Russiagate, Putin was the one telling the truth, and you lefties were the ones lying.

Elvis these guys are idiots: they leave out the following information:

-440,000-500, Ukraine soldiers are dead, probably more. There is another 500-1 million so injured they will never be able to work again, or severe in the military.

-Millions were feeing the before the war.

-no new births of children.

-corruption is still rampant.

-I can go on.

For whatever reasons they want this crazy war to continue. The funny part is they all claim Trump / Putin will go to jail, but Pres Z. , will probably be the one that ends up in jail or killed. The sooner this happens the better off we will be. What a disaster and all the blame goes the Democratic's / the Euros.

[Paulie97]

Do neonazis not exist in Ukraine?

That's quite a weak standard there man. Yes they do, and in the US, the UK, Germany, and many other Euro countries.

[Elvis 2008]

It might be worth collecting the links in one post to stop the constant sealioning from the Z propaganda team. The current tactic is to constantly regurgitate refuted points every couple of months to exhaust people. Would be much easier to just copy and paste one post they can refer to since they refuse to read the thread, or more likely deliberately ignoring the information, and hoping to skirt by with their lies and false interpretations.

Xpartan's link to Putin's lies referred to Putin's verbal history of the region. It was not exactly titillating stuff.

What lies are you talking about? Did Ukraine violate the Minsk agreement? Do neonazis not exist in Ukraine? Was the Dombas bombed by Ukraine? Didn't Boris Johnson scuttle peace talks?

The best I have seen is that Russia was violating the Minsk agreement as well, but tThis is the EXACT same attitude you lefties took with Russiagate and now you still do not fess up that it was all bullshit. So you Dems and your intelligence agencies need to do one helluva lot better with explaining yourselves than the same old cocky we know best attitude because we have seen that movie before, and whether you like it or not, on Russiagate, Putin was the one telling the truth, and you lefties were the ones lying.

[Elvis 2008]

Instead he went to the old and tested Zero Hedge, the source he knew wouldn't upset him or challenge his deranged viewpoints.

I was referring to the comments section. Your POV was well represented there Xpartan. That POV got down voted to shit but it was there. Unlike you Dems, zero hedge does not censor everything.

[Enter The V]

Why is this stupid war still going? Shouldn't Russia have won long time ago.

[VinDici]

We've been taking down Kremlin propaganda / talking points here since the start of the war. It's all over this thread. JmSuttr was the best at it. I've been pretty good, as have been some others. The entire historical and philosophical basis for the invasion has been undercut, and with good source material. But you can't ask us all to do it over again from scratch when all anyone has to do is scroll back through the discussions.

It might be worth collecting the links in one post to stop the constant sealioning from the Z propaganda team. The current tactic is to constantly regurgitate refuted points every couple of months to exhaust people. Would be much easier to just copy and paste one post they can refer to since they refuse to read the thread, or more likely deliberately ignoring the information, and hoping to skirt by with their lies and false interpretations.

[Paulie97]

You missed my question. Let me repost. Read everything up to the question: "Did you pick that up in the interview?" Do you believe that Russia has rights to current Ukrainian territory, certain regions and perhaps the whole country based on distance history going back many centuries? This is Putin's angle that he's been quite clear about. Also what do you think of the Russian-Ukraine Friendship Treaty of 1999 that confirms the present borders?

Elvis, according to my source (Washington Post) Carlson prodded out of Putes that he feels Russia has historic rights to parts of Ukraine, notably the Donbass and Crimea if not more, and that in fact was the reason for the invasion, not some fear of NATO as the hard right in the States wants to think. Carlson reportedly stated that he was "shocked" by that. But it makes perfect sense as prior to the invasion Putes gave a rambling history lesson going back hundreds of years that relatively few professional historians agree with. But it's neither here nor there as the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty was ratified in 1999 which confirmed the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, ie. Donbass and Crimea are Ukraine. Did you pick that up in the interview? Here's the source but it's behind a paywall for most of you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...tin-interview/

[Paulie97]

Were you trying to install imbedded links? If so they didn't take, and may not be possible on this site.

[Elvis 2008]

Elvis, according to my source (Washington Post) Carlson prodded out of Putes that he feels Russia has historic rights to parts of Ukraine, notably the Donbass and Crimea if not more, and that in fact was the reason for the invasion, not some fear of NATO as the hard right in the States wants to think. Carlson reportedly stated that he was "shocked" by that. But it makes perfect sense as prior to the invasion Putes gave a rambling history lesson going back hundreds of years that relatively few professional historians agree with.

Nah, Putin's history talk was going on for like the first full half hour of the interview. Carlson tried to push Putin to the more modern topic, but Putin kept going back to history. I am not sure why he did it. I think he wanted people to understand the fluidity of what a Ukrainian is and how its history is very complex. He made the point that Ukraine was filled not just with Russians but Hungarians as well, and there have always been disputes with Ukraine.

As for why there was an invasion, Putin said Russia and Ukraine had disputes since 2008, the Minsk accords were signed to stop the fighting but he said they were being violated by Ukraine (probably his biggest reason for the invasion). He also pointed to the rise of neonazism in Ukraine with the associated aggression towards Russia, and Ukraine bombing the Donbas region, and the rise of Western mercenaries and training of Ukrainian soldiers. He gave the impression he launched a pre-emptive strike and attacked Ukraine before Ukraine attached Russia.

Now you can say that is all nonsense which is fine, but that was his explanation not the notion that Ukraine belonged to Russia.

And you may say that fear of invading Russia is poppycock. No one would invade Russia but there is this guy Peter Zeihan who seems to be very well plugged into the CIA and the neocon way of thinking. And in this video he openly speculates about Poland launching an aggressive and expansive war against Russia. It was shocking to me to say the least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRoDjUcVOPY.

[Elvis 2008]

We've been taking down Kremlin propaganda / talking points here since the start of the war. It's all over this thread.

But Paulie, it was not just Russian propaganda. Putin reiterated that Ukraine and Russia had a peace deal and Boris Johnson destroyed it.

In her book The Plot, former Tory MP Nadine Dorries, a hardcore Boris partisan, proudly wrote that Boris was responsible for killing a peace deal with Russia over Ukraine as it was "the right thing to do," in Boris's apparent words.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...ine-peace-deal

Then you look at the Bojo video and all he does is the same thing everyone on the left is saying: Don't listen to Tucker Carlson and Putin! That practically confirmed for me what the truth was.

All Putin did was confirm an already known fact. He even has the documentation to back up what he said.

But the key point for Americans is this:

Tucker: Do you think NATO is worried about this becoming a global war or a nuclear conflict?

Putin: At least that's what they are talking about. And they are trying to intimidate their own population with an imaginary Russian threat. This is an obvious fact. And thinking people, not philistines, those who are engaged in real politics, just smart people, understand perfectly well that this is a fake. They are trying to fuel the Russian threat.

Tucker: The threat I think you are referring to is a Russian invasion of Poland, Latvia, expansion.

Putin: We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. Why would we do that? Invade Poland? We simply don't have any interest. It's just threat mongering.

Tucker: Well, the argument, and I know you know this, is, well he invaded Ukraine, he has territorial aims across the continent, and you are saying unequivocally you don't.

Putin: It is absolutely out of the question. You don't have to be any kind of analyst, it goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war. And a global war would bring all of humanity to the brink of destruction. It's obvious. They have been scaring everyone with us, all along. Tomorrow Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons, tomorrow Russia will use that. No, the day after tomorrow. So what? In order to extort additional money from US taxpayers and European taxpayers in the confrontation with Russia.

Tucker: Chuck Schumer, said yesterday, that we have to continue funding the Ukrainian effort or US soldiers could wind up fighting there. How do you assess that?

Putin: This is a provocation, and a cheap provocation at that. I do not understand why American soldiers should fight in Ukraine. There are mercenaries from the United States there. The bigger number of mercenaries comes from Poland. Does the United States need this? What for? Thousands of miles away from your national territory. Don't you have anything better to do? You have issues on the border, issues on migration, issues with the national debt, more than $33 trillion dollars. You have nothing better to do so you fight in Ukraine. Realizing Russia will fight for its interests until the end.

End Transcript.

Thing I do not think Democrats get is that after Russiagate, all those millions of people who voted for Trump are going to be incredibly skeptical of Democrats and the intelligence agencies.

Is there anything outside of speculation that Putin is going to invade Europe after Ukraine? I do not see a compelling case that Putin goes into Europe. I am not even sure he could if the wanted to.

[Xpartan]

We've been taking down Kremlin propaganda / talking points here since the start of the war. It's all over this thread. JmSuttr was the best at it. I've been pretty good, as have been some others. The entire historical and philosophical basis for the invasion has been undercut, and with good source material. But you can't ask us all to do it over again from scratch when all anyone has to do is scroll back through the discussions. In my past worklife (retired now) I got paid for that sort of thing, and am not doing again for free here what I've already done about eight times. I've been generous enough Wink. But if you are really interested in our side of it there's content here, and plenty more in Google. I'll say this though, Ronald Reagan, a true conservative is turning in his grave at this sad state of affairs, the kowtowing to our historic enemy that has never more wanted to see us fail.

If he'd had any interest in seeing "someone take down Putin's case", he would've found multiple honest analyses in a New York minute.

Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense'.

Putin, in rambling interview, barely lets Tucker Carlson get a word in.

Putin's Myths About Ukraine, Debunked.

Putin Used Tucker Carlson to Wipe the Kremlin's Floor.

Instead he went to the old and tested Zero Hedge, the source he knew wouldn't upset him or challenge his deranged viewpoints.

I don't know. If people like Elvis represent tens of millions of MAGAns (and I think he does represent them perfectly), then our future prospects are bleak. Ideology is one thing, but their admiration, their willingness to embrace the sworn enemy of this country who's threatening to annihilate us in nuclear holocaust is something else entirely. Reagan isn't turning in his grave -- he's spinning.

[Xpartan]

Exactly. Xman's prediction was deranged. I just watched Tucker Carlson's interview with Putin, and Putin knocked it out of the park.

The comments on Zero Hedge were overwhelmingly the same. Man, do we wish we had a leader this intelligent and rational.

He pretty much took apart the whole neocon globalist argument piece by piece.

I can expect the same you want to suck Putin's dick comments again here.

What for? You've just confirmed what I've been saying all along with your own post. Case closed.