Thread: Stupid Shit in Kyiv
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06-26-22 01:45 #986
Posts: 516I guess your unwilling, or unable, to answer my challenge.
Originally Posted by PedroMorales [View Original Post]
Which is, very simply, that there is no way to know with certainty that any use of nukes could be contained. Any strike would provoke a response. And sub-launched nukes (to name just one platform) would be difficult or impossible to defend against.
A couple for Moscow, a couple for St. Petersburg, one for Vladivostok, a few others here and there, and Russia would be a stone-age skating rink.
And that means, if Putin follows your advice, you and everyone you know might be dead or, if unfortunate enough to survive, as good as dead.
But that's fine, I'd expect as much from a pathetic schmegegge-troll.
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06-26-22 01:32 #985
Posts: 516Making shit up again, eh?
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in
Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation
With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me.
You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.
BTW, nowhere have I EVER suggested the US needs to, or should, be directly involved in the conflict. The Ukrainians are doing quite well. They just need the continuing support of countries that, unlike you, have figured out that Putin is the bad guy here. If you like him so much, feel free to move to Russia and let us know how that works out for you.
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06-26-22 01:30 #984
Posts: 706Originally Posted by MamaGuevos [View Original Post]
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06-26-22 00:54 #983
Posts: 262The war and the availability of sex
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.
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06-25-22 22:16 #982
Posts: 3160The Russian POV
I am not siding with either Ukraine or Russia, but it is pretty clear that the Western media has put together the innocent Ukrainians and evil Russians / Putin narrative. I had used google to look for an explanation and was frustrated. I realized that search engine was the problem and once I used a new one, I got the link below. Again, I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda. What I do know is anyone who has even attempted to justify Russia's invasion has had their microphone taken away. I will say after Ukrainegate and Russiagate I was very suspicious that Putin was provoked into action. It does not justify what he did but the claims of innocence are hard to buy. IMO it is very rare a fight like this happens between a good and bad guy. It is typically more like between two bad guys.
https://mronline.org/2022/06/23/is-t...ar-in-ukraine/
This article is the fourth in a series of articles I have written covering the US proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. While this civil war in Ukraine actually began 8 years ago in 2014, the Western media narrative has portrayed this conflict as an unprovoked invasion by Russia that began on February 24,2022. The 8 year civil war in the Donbass Region is a direct result of the US backed coup and color revolution known as the Maidan Revolution, that ousted the democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych and installed an ultra-nationalist, anti-Russian, Nazi government.
The coup government was rejected by the majority ethnic Russian population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, who had supported Yanukovych. The result was protests throughout eastern Ukraine and Odessa in the south. The Russian speaking population understood that they would experience harsh persecution under the new, anti-Russian government. On May 2, 2014 in Odessa, protesters took refuge in the Odessa Trade Union Hall trying to escape the attacks of Neo-Nazi vigilantes, who then set the building on fire. Forty-eight protesters were either burned alive or died jumping out of the building. No one was ever prosecuted for the Odessa Massacre.
Crimea voted to secede and was annexed into Russia. Donetsk and Lugansk became breakaway provinces thus leaving Ukraine, but were soon invaded by Ukrainian Nazis who refused to give up the region. Western media rarely acknowledged the huge civilian death toll in eastern Ukraine.
Minsk 1 (September 5, 2014) and Minsk 2 (February 12,2015) Peace Agreements contained a ceasefire and were ratified by the United Nations with Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France as signers. The agreement called for the breakaway provinces to be reabsorbed into Ukraine, but receive regional autonomy which essentially meant the right to use the Russian language. The 2014 coup government outlawed the use of the Russian language in media and schools. For the agreement to be finalized it required that the leaders of the Ukrainian government had to negotiate the terms with the leaders of Donetsk and Lugansk. Negotiations never happened, nor was the ceasefire even honored by Nazi paramilitaries. On February 13,2015, Minsk 2 was immediately rejected by the Right Sector leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who vowed to keep fighting. The rocket shellings of the Donbass by Nazis continued for almost 8 years resulting in 14,000 mostly civilian deaths.
The United States had endorsed the Minsk Agreements and Obama was reluctant to supply Ukraine with weapons. This changed under Trump who was convinced to sell arms to Ukraine to prove he wasn't Putin's puppet. Zelensky was elected in 2019 by 73% of Ukrainians because he ran as the peace candidate, stating that he would implement Minsk 2. US media hardly acknowledged this fact, and focused on Trump's phone call to Zelensky regarding investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma, after he temporarily withheld a weapons shipment to Ukraine. Zelensky received death threats, over his goal to implement the Minsk agreement, in an interview with the Right Sector (a Nazi Party) leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who said "he will hang on some tree on Khreshchatyk if he betrays Ukraine and those people who died in the Revolution and the War. " Zelensky was powerless to achieve the goal of peace without strong backing from the United States, which instead was more interested in arming and training a proxy force to fight Russia.
The Biden Administration took things to new level in 2021 by sending more weapons and giving special forces training to Ukrainian Nazi paramilitaries. In April 2021, Zelensky said he was not going to honor the Minsk 2 Agreement and was planning to retake the breakaway regions and Crimea by force. The US created this war by preparing Ukrainian forces for the invasion.
OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) reports show ceasefire violations, the majority by Ukrainian forces, increased from 57 on February 14,2022 to 1,927 on February 21,2022. It was an invasion by Ukraine on Donetsk and Lugansk that caused Russia to intervene on February 24,2022. Putin described it as a "peacekeeping mission. " Certainly the people and soldiers of the DPR and LPR were glad the Russians finally intervened. Over 150,000 Ukrainian troops were lined up west of the line of contact, about to fight 31,000 mostly volunteer soldiers of the DPR and LPR. It would have been a genocide had Russia not intervened. Russia had multiple reasons to finally intervene, including protecting Crimea and preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, which would have led to nuclear missile bases on its borders.
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06-25-22 22:15 #981
Posts: 516Why Putin-perialism needs to be defeated.
This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far...mobilewebshare
Here are some quotes:
"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".
"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".
The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.
"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".
"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".
"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".
There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.
One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.
My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.
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06-25-22 22:14 #980
Posts: 1056Iskander-M missiles
Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.
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06-25-22 22:07 #979
Posts: 3160Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
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06-25-22 19:57 #978
Posts: 2842Re Toxic Subject
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-...the-holocaust/
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06-25-22 15:27 #977
Posts: 2842Toxic Subject.
A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.
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06-25-22 14:17 #976
Posts: 2374Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.
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06-24-22 21:19 #975
Posts: 516Another mindlessly meandering post. You're digging the hole deeper.
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/c...aine-genocide/
If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.
My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.
But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.
BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.
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06-24-22 20:13 #974
Posts: 1925Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.
The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 18:21 #973
Posts: 1056An American Spams
If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.
Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.
As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.
You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.
As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 17:05 #972
Posts: 3160LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.
Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?
Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.
Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.
EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.
Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."
"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."
Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.
End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.
As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.
I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.