Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Jojosun]

The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.

The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?

'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-cze...-in-the-world/.

https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/cze...es-for-expats/

[Tomasb]

For being a sex site, that was one heck of a good report on McGregor and other aspects of our air defense and offensive capacities in Europe and beyond. Perhaps, Flynn and McGregor are BFF?

Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.

He says Americans do not want such and such and Europe does not want such and such - and yet the vast majority want to send weapons and even the majority want to impose no-fly zone. I do not suppor us or NATO setting up a no-fly zone. I know how risky that is. I believe they support it becuase they do not understand that a know fly zone requires shooting down planes and that is the same as sending in troops. ( In a world where there were no nuclear bombs I would love to see it - our F22s would dominate them so fast it would be a sight to see)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/


I know who Colonel MacGregor is and I know there is a reason he was only a colonel and did not get selected to be a general. I am a US Army veteran and I am on several group pages of FB and other places with thousands of other veterans. They all say Macgregor is a nut case who should just go live in Russia. He was babbling nonsense about missiles. Look it up man, all of our missiles in eastern europe are defensive missilles designed to knock missiles out of the sky. They are not offensive weapons. He is a nutjob. He is literally lobbying for a foreign power saying we should not have a missile defense - which by the way is mostly ineffectiv to Russian misssiles and is directed at missiles from North Korea.

You realize Macgregor was in he was in "friends of the soviet union" (if you do not believe me check his wiki page it is in the first paragraph) and most vets I know think he got recruited by the Russian intelligence then, I do not know for sure of course but shit it makes sense. Everything he suggest doing is a benefit to Russia at the expense of the free world. I also know that the vast majority of US Army generals think his suggestions would weaken our nation's defense beyond repair.

It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...y-cooperation/

I know is it is a sad day when Americans start taking sides with a Tyrant over people who choose to live free. Ukrainians are literally saying right now "live free or die". To them it is not a bumper sticker. The president of Ukraine was offered a way out of the country and he said "I need ammunition not a ride". That is now how a corrupt leader acts. That is how a lover of theor country and of freedom acts. I am done now. Americans who do not believe in freedom should just all move to russia. I do not understand what they are waiting for.

[Lucky Nuts]

For donation I saw a lot of different stuff, even people asking to drop money on cards.

I assume there will be also some scam in these demands.

Personally I used this way.

https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/nats...potrebi-armiyi

And I also keep some money to help straight my Ukrainian contacts straight if they need / ask.

I am in regular contact with 5 people, 3 have left to Europe, 2 want to stay in Ukraine with one in Kiev.

Thanks Fred! Although an insignificant amount it feels good to give a token of appreciation directly to the forces fighting the war for democracy.

[Jmsuttr]

It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...y-cooperation/.

Agree with 99.9% of your points, except I would argue that the relationship between Russia and China may turn out to be less helpful to Russia than many think.

China always puts their own interests first, obviously, and they also have a history of issues, problems, and conflicts, with respect to Russia. For example, China makes mention from time to time of their "Century of Humiliation" at the hand of western powers. It's a powerful motivation that drives them to keep striving for power and dominance in world affairs. Well, Russia was one of the offending countries, in China's view. Do a search for Amur Annexation to see how much land China was forced to cede to Russia, including Vladivostok.

That's not to say they don't have some common interests. China is happy to use Russia to poke the West in the eye. But any help Russia gets is likely to come at an exorbitant price and China would love for Russia to become economically dependent on them. They would love to bleed Russia of oil and other resources at a huge discount and their history with Russia makes it likely they'd see the current situation as an opportunity to balance the ledger to some degree.

It's also worth pointing out that China needs the West, especially Europe, more than they need Russia. Russian GDP is less than that of Italy and can't replace the money China gets from Western markets. So China is walking a tightrope and is unlikely to be the savior to Russia that many think.

Here's a crude analogy: Since they're both predators, Russia in a military way and China in an economic way, their relationship is a bit like pairing Freddy Krueger from Friday the 13th with Michael from Halloween. How long before they turn their knives on each other?

P.S. The link you shared only mentions an agreement for closer coordination and cooperation which, while certainly a matter of concern, doesn't rise to the level of a mutual defense pact. I have a hard time envisioning China ever putting their soldiers in harm's way for Russian interests.

[Golfinho]

Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.

enough to realize that Russia and China are the same.

Definition of "a fox news correspondent": a talking head chickenhawk.

Russia and China are the same? Please don't try to explain that here Colonel General Mojo. Such insight is best kept in the highly classified think tank war room, the one in your head.

[Mojo Bandit]

Interesting video, US Military Veteran on the war in Ukraine. https://video.foxnews.com/v/6299099588001/#sp=show-clips.

The decorated combat veteran says the USA Should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian.

Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.

He says Americans do not want such and such and Europe does not want such and such - and yet the vast majority want to send weapons and even the majority want to impose no-fly zone. I do not suppor us or NATO setting up a no-fly zone. I know how risky that is. I believe they support it becuase they do not understand that a know fly zone requires shooting down planes and that is the same as sending in troops. ( In a world where there were no nuclear bombs I would love to see it - our F22s would dominate them so fast it would be a sight to see)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/


I know who Colonel MacGregor is and I know there is a reason he was only a colonel and did not get selected to be a general. I am a US Army veteran and I am on several group pages of FB and other places with thousands of other veterans. They all say Macgregor is a nut case who should just go live in Russia. He was babbling nonsense about missiles. Look it up man, all of our missiles in eastern europe are defensive missilles designed to knock missiles out of the sky. They are not offensive weapons. He is a nutjob. He is literally lobbying for a foreign power saying we should not have a missile defense - which by the way is mostly ineffectiv to Russian misssiles and is directed at missiles from North Korea.

You realize Macgregor was in he was in "friends of the soviet union" (if you do not believe me check his wiki page it is in the first paragraph) and most vets I know think he got recruited by the Russian intelligence then, I do not know for sure of course but shit it makes sense. Everything he suggest doing is a benefit to Russia at the expense of the free world. I also know that the vast majority of US Army generals think his suggestions would weaken our nation's defense beyond repair.

It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...y-cooperation/

I know is it is a sad day when Americans start taking sides with a Tyrant over people who choose to live free. Ukrainians are literally saying right now "live free or die". To them it is not a bumper sticker. The president of Ukraine was offered a way out of the country and he said "I need ammunition not a ride". That is now how a corrupt leader acts. That is how a lover of theor country and of freedom acts. I am done now. Americans who do not believe in freedom should just all move to russia. I do not understand what they are waiting for.

[Mojo Bandit]

Interesting video, US Military Veteran on the war in Ukraine. https://video.foxnews.com/v/6299099588001/#sp=show-clips.

The decorated combat veteran says the USA Should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian.

There was nothing in my post about the United States entering the conflict. I was discussing the tactics the Ukraines should be using as a smaller force and never mentioned the USA entering the war.

[PedroMorales]

My regular, who is the Ukrainian I know best, argued with me when I said last year

Show levels of understanding, intelligence and reflection far higher than that of XPartan and the other Stupid Shit trolls. It is a pity their debar us getting insights.

Your girl friends are fully right from their points of view and from the view of very many others.

[Kozerog]

I would love to know when exactly did "Ukraine decide to take on a bully".

2013-2014. EU will eventually be same thing as NATO. If corruption was the issue, why elect Yanukovych in the first place? Why wait until 2013 and the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Why not revolt in 2011 or 2012? Why change language laws the very first day the new government was in office, instead of first focusing on corruption and changing language laws later? Why re-arm, which forces Russia to invade soon or face a more difficult invasion later?

Lots of countries live next door to dangerous bullies. Mexico lost half its territory to the USA in 1848, then was forced to sell another slice to accommodate the railroad, then had to put up with USA meddling during the Mexican revolution. Mexicans had the sense to recognize that USA would simply seize their entire country if they resisted, so they didn't resist.

[Xpartan]

The reason I posted the link was as a contrast to those who focus exclusively on one individual, Trump or Biden or whoever, as being the primary or proximate cause of the current situation. Whether you agree with Ferguson isn't important. The point is to engage in a discussion that casts a net wide enough to hopefully capture all (or most) of the possibilities and probabilities.

There are "experts" with opinions (and that's all they are) all over the place. The ones I ignore are those who are overly dogmatic, think they've got it all figured out, and fail to acknowledge how much is uncertain and how much they don't know. IMO, experts, real or self-styled, will be debating and analyzing these issues for years.

I agree that neither Biden nor Trump are the primary sources of this. The primary and the only source of this situation is Putin.

Everyone has over played there hands on this one and media is making everything even worse. Ukraine decided to take on a bully and is getting absolutely destroyed as result. Any deal is good deal at this point, nobody is coming to help them and if thought that was going to happen, maybe one of the biggest miscalculation of all time.

I do feel sorry for the people that could not leave, but I have very sympathy for Ukraine government, they are completely delusional, but this should not be surprise.

I would love to know when exactly did "Ukraine decide to take on a bully".

When they decided to join the EU?

When they kicked out their monstrously corrupt president?

When they "dared" to express their displeasure with Russia annexing two of their regions?

Do you have any other events in mind?

What do you believe the Ukraine government should've done and when?

[Xpartan]

Do you have any evidence he had any arsenal?

Please read my previous post if you're interested.

[Xpartan]

You seemed to be describing the Putin end game that he has achieved or will achieve. The problem is at what cost for Russia. As long as Putin rules Russia, I don't see the West reestablishing normal ties with Russia. Do the Russian people want to go back to isolation and a stagnant economic outlook?

From what I'm seeing this guy is simply parroting Russia's official line, and I really don't understand if he's just a fool or if there are more sinister motives. The truth is that Putin's goal is not to ensure Ukraine's NATO neutrality. Maybe, one day, many many moons ago it was about NATO neutrality, but right now his goal is to destroy Ukraine as an independent state and subjugate its people. Simply put, Ukrainians are fighting for their survival, and there're only three choices: Fight, run, or die. Putin made it easy for them.

As to your last questions, there is a very effective informational blockade in Russia. The independent media have been pushed off line and off air. The official media don't show any horrors that the army is inflicting on Ukrainian population. All major VPN providers are blocked. There is a new law that provides for up to 15 years in prison for just calling Putin's so called "special operation" a war. And, quite frankly, a lot of Russians have been zombified in the last 10 years by the relentless propaganda machine.

[PhotoSlider]

Most of the girls I saw before meeting this regular were from similar poor backgrounds, and similarly apathetic about politics, national identity, language. All they cared about was a better life: more money, easier working conditions.

Kozerog, as you know by now, I have utmost respect for your analytical ability.

I am far from the thought that you consider those girls you met, representative of the true spirit of the whole society. Especially the spirit of those fighting today.

[Kozerog]

Hard disagree. Keep in mind that, Russian speaking enclaves aside, the only thing Ukrainians agree on is that they don't want to be under the control of Moscow again, whatever that costs them.

Freedom and repression are relative terms, yes, but to suggest that Russians are worse off than, say, Belarusians, because the Belarusians are once removed from Putin's control because Lukashenko is some sort of moderating force is both absurd and patently uninformed.

My regular, who is the Ukrainian I know best, argued with me when I said last year that Ukraine was better than Belarus because it is a democracy. She and her family are from a small town south of Kyiv and they have typical peasant mentality: there will always be crooks in charge; democracy is a farce; best thing you can do in life is adapt to the system; what matters is the final result, not the process. According to her, people like her and her family would be better off economically in Belarus and that's all she cares about.

She also said she didn't care if Donbas went back to Russia: "What's it to me? My family doesn't live there. " If fact, I don't think she or anyone in her family would much care if the whole country went back to Russia. She grew up speaking Ukrainian, then learned Russian after she moved to Kyiv because people in Kyiv laughed at Ukrainian speech then (before 2014). No emotional ties to language, or to national identity, or to political system, or to native village. Only thing she cares strongly about is economic well-being of herself and her family (parents, grandparents, sisters, cousins, etc).

Most of the girls I saw before meeting this regular were from similar poor backgrounds, and similarly apathetic about politics, national identity, language. All they cared about was a better life: more money, easier working conditions.

[Jmsuttr]

The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. Ukraine got into this mess because it didn't think. To get out of the mess, it has to start thinking or get help thinking, especially from those of us comfortably sitting outside Ukraine and thus able to keep our minds from getting carried away by emotions.

First, I think most Ukrainians, in or out of the country, would say that the single most important thing is for those in Ukraine not to die. Survival being one of those fundamental Maslow's Hierarchy kinds of things, not much else is going to capture their attention.

So far, my attempts to talk sense to Ukrainians have resulted mostly in furious accusations that I'm a Russian troll, followed by banning me from forums.

Wow, I'm shocked (sarc)! Did you really expect any other reaction? There's such a thing as timing, and the time to instruct a mother on how her child should have safely crossed the street is not when the kid is in the ICU after being hit by a car.

Any Ukrainians you personally know will likely take the view that you're not there, and can't know what they're going through, and should therefore STFU. And, since the vast majority of forums (that I've seen) are pro-Ukraine, it's not surprising to see the same reaction.

Wringing one's hands about the suffering of the unfortunates is women's work. Men can either fight or think. I don't pretend to be much of a fighter myself. However, I respect those who can and do fight, and I expect them in turn to respect me for my contribution, which is to think.

From what I've seen, BOTH Ukrainian men and women are fighting AND mourning, as those two activities are not mutually exclusive. As far as respect is concerned, it has to be earned. Right now they're busy trying to save their country, so it's not surprising if they don't have time or patience for comments from the peanut gallery. And, as far as your contribution is concerned, that leads to my next point.

Prior to the invasion, I was thinking and advocating that Ukraine simply capitulate to all of Putin's demands and I still think that's the best way forwards,

One big problem with your comment is that it's nothing Ukrainians haven't heard, and rejected, from a host of different sources. Are you really surprised at not getting a positive reaction? I'm certainly not. Another problem is assuming Putin's list of demands is static, rather than dynamic. Ukrainians would prefer not to find out.

I'm just doing here in this thread what comes naturally to me. Much easier to speak my mind and be condemned for it than be silent.

And I think that's perfectly fine, which is why I'm doing the same thing. But right now, in all the Ukrainian and pro-Ukrainian forums, I'm doing nothing but expressing support. They're understandably in a siege mentality, and perceive anyone who isn't for them as being against them. Whether they're right or wrong is immaterial, that's simply their current (and understandable) mindset.