Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Xpartan]

Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.

Pedro should be banned permanently.

And Morales too if he doesn't STFU.

[TConor]

This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far...mobilewebshare

Here are some quotes:

"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".

"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".

The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.

"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".

"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".

"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".

There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.

One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.

My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.

Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.

[Jmsuttr]

I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.

The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.

I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.

And that's because this is where all the Stupid Shit that may not be directly mongering-related ends up. If you're looking for specific hooker recommendations, you're in the wrong place and should check out the specific city threads instead.

Also, it's a bit odd that you're so quick to criticize political discussions yet, in the same post, you have no problem talking about anti-Semitism and Jewish presidents. I would respectfully suggest that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

[Jmsuttr]

Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.

Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.

The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.

Russia has a no first strike priviso. Russia should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...=1#post2712127

Which is, very simply, that there is no way to know with certainty that any use of nukes could be contained. Any strike would provoke a response. And sub-launched nukes (to name just one platform) would be difficult or impossible to defend against.

A couple for Moscow, a couple for St. Petersburg, one for Vladivostok, a few others here and there, and Russia would be a stone-age skating rink.

And that means, if Putin follows your advice, you and everyone you know might be dead or, if unfortunate enough to survive, as good as dead.

But that's fine, I'd expect as much from a pathetic schmegegge-troll.

[Jmsuttr]

Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me.

Yeah, looks like that's your problem with a lot of things. I guess it doesn't bother you that the ONLY people in the world who would even think to characterize the Russians as having any shred of justification are the propaganda mongers themselves and the trolls who parrot their BS. Which one are you?

Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in

Yes, with this post you've made it abundantly clear that you have none.

Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation

Wow, you really are the master of the non sequitur, aren't you? Since you're asking, maybe these are the experts who gave fentanyl to Matt Taibbi, since your earlier posts demonstrated your bizarre infatuation with such irrelevancies.

With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me.

Yeah, I think you were lost a long time ago. But I bet you'd kill it over in the American Politics thread, since you and Pedro M are basically two sides of the same inane coin.

You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.

No, I think war is like war, with people killing and being killed. And, while it's not always possible to discern the good from the bad, sometimes it's quite easy. For example, on September 1st, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland. The US had no problem recognizing who the bad guy was because naked aggression made it clear. And the US, even with the existence of Neutrality Acts passed in the 1930's, figured out ways to help. We didn't go to war ourselves until Pearl Harbor, but we were already involved by virtue of our support. Had we not given it, we'd probably all be speaking German right now.

BTW, nowhere have I EVER suggested the US needs to, or should, be directly involved in the conflict. The Ukrainians are doing quite well. They just need the continuing support of countries that, unlike you, have figured out that Putin is the bad guy here. If you like him so much, feel free to move to Russia and let us know how that works out for you.

[Riina]

I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.

The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.

I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.

This thread has been hijacked by a real ASSet.

[MamaGuevos]

I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.

The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.

I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.

[Elvis 2008]

I am not siding with either Ukraine or Russia, but it is pretty clear that the Western media has put together the innocent Ukrainians and evil Russians / Putin narrative. I had used google to look for an explanation and was frustrated. I realized that search engine was the problem and once I used a new one, I got the link below. Again, I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda. What I do know is anyone who has even attempted to justify Russia's invasion has had their microphone taken away. I will say after Ukrainegate and Russiagate I was very suspicious that Putin was provoked into action. It does not justify what he did but the claims of innocence are hard to buy. IMO it is very rare a fight like this happens between a good and bad guy. It is typically more like between two bad guys.

https://mronline.org/2022/06/23/is-t...ar-in-ukraine/

This article is the fourth in a series of articles I have written covering the US proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. While this civil war in Ukraine actually began 8 years ago in 2014, the Western media narrative has portrayed this conflict as an unprovoked invasion by Russia that began on February 24,2022. The 8 year civil war in the Donbass Region is a direct result of the US backed coup and color revolution known as the Maidan Revolution, that ousted the democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych and installed an ultra-nationalist, anti-Russian, Nazi government.

The coup government was rejected by the majority ethnic Russian population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, who had supported Yanukovych. The result was protests throughout eastern Ukraine and Odessa in the south. The Russian speaking population understood that they would experience harsh persecution under the new, anti-Russian government. On May 2, 2014 in Odessa, protesters took refuge in the Odessa Trade Union Hall trying to escape the attacks of Neo-Nazi vigilantes, who then set the building on fire. Forty-eight protesters were either burned alive or died jumping out of the building. No one was ever prosecuted for the Odessa Massacre.

Crimea voted to secede and was annexed into Russia. Donetsk and Lugansk became breakaway provinces thus leaving Ukraine, but were soon invaded by Ukrainian Nazis who refused to give up the region. Western media rarely acknowledged the huge civilian death toll in eastern Ukraine.

Minsk 1 (September 5, 2014) and Minsk 2 (February 12,2015) Peace Agreements contained a ceasefire and were ratified by the United Nations with Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France as signers. The agreement called for the breakaway provinces to be reabsorbed into Ukraine, but receive regional autonomy which essentially meant the right to use the Russian language. The 2014 coup government outlawed the use of the Russian language in media and schools. For the agreement to be finalized it required that the leaders of the Ukrainian government had to negotiate the terms with the leaders of Donetsk and Lugansk. Negotiations never happened, nor was the ceasefire even honored by Nazi paramilitaries. On February 13,2015, Minsk 2 was immediately rejected by the Right Sector leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who vowed to keep fighting. The rocket shellings of the Donbass by Nazis continued for almost 8 years resulting in 14,000 mostly civilian deaths.

The United States had endorsed the Minsk Agreements and Obama was reluctant to supply Ukraine with weapons. This changed under Trump who was convinced to sell arms to Ukraine to prove he wasn't Putin's puppet. Zelensky was elected in 2019 by 73% of Ukrainians because he ran as the peace candidate, stating that he would implement Minsk 2. US media hardly acknowledged this fact, and focused on Trump's phone call to Zelensky regarding investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma, after he temporarily withheld a weapons shipment to Ukraine. Zelensky received death threats, over his goal to implement the Minsk agreement, in an interview with the Right Sector (a Nazi Party) leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who said "he will hang on some tree on Khreshchatyk if he betrays Ukraine and those people who died in the Revolution and the War. " Zelensky was powerless to achieve the goal of peace without strong backing from the United States, which instead was more interested in arming and training a proxy force to fight Russia.

The Biden Administration took things to new level in 2021 by sending more weapons and giving special forces training to Ukrainian Nazi paramilitaries. In April 2021, Zelensky said he was not going to honor the Minsk 2 Agreement and was planning to retake the breakaway regions and Crimea by force. The US created this war by preparing Ukrainian forces for the invasion.

OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) reports show ceasefire violations, the majority by Ukrainian forces, increased from 57 on February 14,2022 to 1,927 on February 21,2022. It was an invasion by Ukraine on Donetsk and Lugansk that caused Russia to intervene on February 24,2022. Putin described it as a "peacekeeping mission. " Certainly the people and soldiers of the DPR and LPR were glad the Russians finally intervened. Over 150,000 Ukrainian troops were lined up west of the line of contact, about to fight 31,000 mostly volunteer soldiers of the DPR and LPR. It would have been a genocide had Russia not intervened. Russia had multiple reasons to finally intervene, including protecting Crimea and preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, which would have led to nuclear missile bases on its borders.

[Jmsuttr]

This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far...mobilewebshare

Here are some quotes:

"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".

"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".

The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.

"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".

"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".

"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".

There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.

One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.

My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.

[PedroMorales]

Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.

Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.

The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.

Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.

[Elvis 2008]

Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me. Usually when there is a fight both parties could have stopped it, but your story prompted me to go look at what the Russian side was so thank you for that.

Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.

I am more of a couch guy and am comfortable as can be. Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in unless the good guys are being killed and I am not sure there are any good guys yet. Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation or was a new crew employed this time to say how awful Putin was?

If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.

Helpless little old lady? Nah, it turns out Biden and the Ukrainians were not as helpless and innocent as that. Later on, you asked a question if I am a military expert? And I am not. That ranks us up there with having to be a biologist to know what a woman is, but it shows the point. If I am on your side, then I can be anything, but if I am neutral based on a lack of understanding of both sides, well that ranks up there with being a stupid coward.

You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.

All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.

Sorry, guy, you are just making stuff up. If you want me to go to war, you have to show me you are all in. I am not going to war when our government has policies that enrich the enemy shooting at me Fuck that. With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me. That you acted hostile when I said that made it doubly bad.

The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.

I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.

Yeah, you lost me there. If you feel that way, you should get out of your Lazy-Boy, pick up a gun and go fight. You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.

[Jojosun]

A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.

No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!

Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.

There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.

Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.

As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran

And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.

Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.

The links to David Fisher and his Film The Round Number. " David Fisher was born to Joseph Fischer (born in Romania) and Mali (born in Ukraine), both Holocaust survivors".

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-...the-holocaust/

[Jojosun]

A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.

No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!

Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.

There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.

Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.

As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran

And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.

Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.

[Golfinho]

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

In fairness to the Poles, as their lands were designated as primary part of the Pale of Settlement, they were forced into closest proximity of these people, and while they endured the sufferance inflicted upon them, a peoples' forebearance and rectitude could only be expected to go so far.

As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.

[Jmsuttr]

My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have.

Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.

https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/c...aine-genocide/

If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.

My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.

And my counter-point is that ALL you've offered is purely PERSONAL opinion, nothing more. Period. Are you a military expert? Are you referencing the analyses of any credible experts? All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.

But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.

BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.

Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.