Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Xpartan]

The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US.

I wonder what can possibly possess a grown-up to say something so monumentally stupid.

[Jmsuttr]

The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.

If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!

So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!

Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...=1#post2703784

If Russia doesn't want to stop fighting the war, the only way the US could make them stop would require the use of force by the US military, or NATO, or both.

That would a) Play into Putin's hands by allowing him to frame the conflict as existential, with Russia's nationhood at stake, and; b) Exponentially raise the risk that nuclear weapons could be used.

Also, you're mistaken as to a fundamental fact. Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine, not the US and not American arms manufacturers. It was Putin, and he alone, who started the war. And, since he started it, the war will continue until Putin, or his successor, gives the order to stop.

Any questions?

[Paulie97]

The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.

If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!

So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!

Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.

Now he talks, west needs to do more! That is when we need to think! What went wrong!!

Remember, war brings money / economic growth!! In the expense of people of a country. In this case, its the Arms manufacture of US, with the money fo tax payers!!

When the congress passes a multibillion aid! For arm supply, its taxpayer money paid to the Arms manufacturs!

Check the share prices of US arms manufactures in last 3 months!!.

All you've done is ignore all of Jmsuttr's points and concerns while repeating the same assertions all over again, but this time tacking on double exclamation marks at the end of each sentence. And you earn a demerit by adding the ludicrous claim that the US has been the only country involved in war since WW II. We should expect better, even in a hooker forum. Why don't you go back and try again? Wink.

[Mike963]

The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.

If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!

So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!

Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.

Now he talks, west needs to do more! That is when we need to think! What went wrong!!

Remember, war brings money / economic growth!! In the expense of people of a country. In this case, its the Arms manufacture of US, with the money fo tax payers!!

When the congress passes a multibillion aid! For arm supply, its taxpayer money paid to the Arms manufacturs!

Check the share prices of US arms manufactures in last 3 months!!

Its important to stop the war, to save the people!! But who cares of the people!!

I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.

But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.

When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:

Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?

A: Russia.

Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?

A: Russia.

Q: How can the conflict be stopped?

[Paulie97]

No wonder he Won https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0.

Viral fake news, taken out of context and easily debunked.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...p-call-joe-bi/

[Paulie97]

2000 Mules.

2000 mules debunked.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...ut-voting-mai/

Just another far right yawn, filed away with Hillary's emails, lock her up, Hunter's lap top, Bill Clinton's BJ, and Obama's birth certificate. But D'Souza, a convicted felon pardoned by Trump wanted some money from stupid people also. Why should Trump get it all?

[Paulie97]

At it back in 2020. No wonder he Won https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0.

LOL, 2000 Mules.

Too bad 60+ frivolous lawsuits were laughed out the door. LOL Better luck in 2024.

P.S. Best wishes on your English language studies.

[Jojosun]

Looks like he said North Korea when he meant to say South Korea. Big deal, is hardly worth the cap key. Many of Trump's gaffes and word salads are legendary, such as "oranges of the investigation" Ha Ha. But even that isn't worth the cap key or steering us off topic in a Kyiv discussion, even though Biden had enough going on between his ears to mop the floor with Trump in two debates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M

At it back in 2020. No wonder he Won https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0.

LOL, 2000 Mules.

[Jmsuttr]

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/...t-has-emerged/

Attacks of a guerrilla or resistance nature will make any occupation a dicey and dangerous affair. And, to the extent that military resources important to Russia are destroyed (ammo, fuel, railroads, etc.), that will have a direct effect on the battlefield. And even just keeping extra Russian troops tied to garrison duty is a positive for Ukraine.

[Jmsuttr]

I understand your points. I generally agree with the recent posts that you don't want to prolong this war unnecessarily. There's a tendency for us armchair generals to look at a conventional war and think we can master a victory. Beyond the carnage and destruction, it ignores all the political chaos that ensues.

It's a bit audacious to presume the Ukraine itself will emerge a healthy, functioning democracy. I'm still not sure what would happen if Putin was deposed. There are no guarantees in what follows.

However, I do not agree the United States' role is that of peace negotiator. That is probably best left to Turkey or some other nation that doesn't represent a threat to either side. Perhaps China or even India has missed their opportunity to gain respect on the world stage.

Every nation other than Russia and Ukraine is at best tangential, and at worst irrelevant.

As I see it, Ukraine's requirements for any kind of cease-fire (or more) would be, at a minimum, Russia's withdrawal to pre-invasion boundaries. I see no indication that's even close to being acceptable to Russia.

Russia apparently believes it can hold out against sanctions and attrition of military resources long enough to seize all of Luhansk, Donetsk, and a land corridor to Crimea. And, from other sources I've recently read, some in Russia believe they can reconstitute their forces enough to make another push at Kyiv.

While Ukraine's thinking, as I understand it, is that they can bend without breaking and, with Western support, continue to grind down Russia's ability to effectively wage war. And, on that front, there are things happening to encourage Ukraine. Putin has failed to call for national mobilization, perhaps fearing backlash or widespread disobedience or avoidance, and Russia has eliminated the upper age limit for military service. Those, and similar developments, indicate that Putin is having a hard time finding soldiers. And any who are recruited today will need to be trained for at least several months before achieving even minimal fighting proficiency.

So, that's a longish way of saying that neither side is anywhere close to believing they need to negotiate. When one side, or both, is sufficiently beaten up, then who the negotiator is, while important, won't be the primary issue.

Also, if I'm Ukrainian and someone tries to raise the issue of whether my country will be a healthy democracy after the war, I think I'd punch them in the mouth. That's because, in Maslow hierarchy-speak, I'm at the bottom of the pyramid, just trying to survive. Self-actualization as a democracy is a great goal, but that's a topic for another day.

I agree that there are a lot of geopolitical chips up in the air, and who knows where they'll fall. But, first things first, please help me and my family keep from being killed.

P.S. It's also important to factor in that the landscape with respect to sanctions and the battlefield is constantly changing. See my recent post about Ukraine acquiring MLRS systems from the US, and why that may have a significant impact. And the latest round of sanctions now includes Sberbank, which is the heavyweight of Russian banks. So, in boxing terms, past banking sanctions were like stiff jabs (painful but moderate damage), while this one is like a heavy body-blow with the potential for major damage.

[Jmsuttr]

So true, they should be forced to negotiate and compromise. Instead of sending weapons, we should say enough is enough. Find a solution and end this crazy war.

Russia is the aggressor and, in case you haven't noticed, there's no country that's currently able to force Russia to do anything. And any attempt at the direct application of force runs the risk of provoking the use of nukes.

So what does that leave as a realistic option? Going through the United Nations is worthless, as Russia (aided by China) is able to veto any attempt to problem solve by that toothless organization.

What else? Well, maybe the application of sanctions and other pressures by Europe, the US, and other nations. That's not force, per se, but rather an attempt to convince Russia that the present and future costs they'll incur will outweigh any benefits.

That's the only realistic path I can see, and that's what's currently being tried (as Ukraine defends itself in a struggle for survival). If you have a better solution, with a realistic chance of making a difference, please feel free to share.

BTW, if anyone thinks that peace is to be gained by forcing Ukraine only, while letting Russia do whatever it wants, I would refer them to VinDici's earlier post. Asking Ukraine to commit national suicide is a non-starter.

[Jmsuttr]

The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?

The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!

What did we see?

Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!

Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.

Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.

But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.

When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:

Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?

A: Russia.

Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?

A: Russia.

Q: How can the conflict be stopped?

A: By Russia deciding to stop, either by their own independent decision, or as a response to external and (or) internal pressures.

While other questions and issues may be valid and worth exploring, they must necessarily take a back seat to the primary issues listed above. I'm certainly open to debating which countries might secretly, or not so secretly, be hoping for Ukraine to fail (Serbia, Hungary, Germany, etc.), or which countries are giving Ukraine their full support (Poland, Baltics, etc.), or which countries (USA, France, Italy, etc.) might be slow-walking assistance because they see upsides to a protracted conflict.

I have no illusions about the fact that there are plenty of bad actors who could, and should, be named and shamed. But Job #1 is ending the war, full stop. And that will only happen if Russia has a change of mind (unlikely), or if a combination of battlefield defeats, attrition, and pressures from within and without, cause them to have that change of mind.

[WyattEarp]

Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!

Lefts fight till the end of who??

Why will they stop a war, as they know the business opportunity is their hands!!

There is no good in the world anymore, we can only choose the better evil!

I understand your points. I generally agree with the recent posts that you don't want to prolong this war unnecessarily. There's a tendency for us armchair generals to look at a conventional war and think we can master a victory. Beyond the carnage and destruction, it ignores all the political chaos that ensues.

It's a bit audacious to presume the Ukraine itself will emerge a healthy, functioning democracy. I'm still not sure what would happen if Putin was deposed. There are no guarantees in what follows.

However, I do not agree the United States' role is that of peace negotiator. That is probably best left to Turkey or some other nation that doesn't represent a threat to either side. Perhaps China or even India has missed their opportunity to gain respect on the world stage.

[DramaFree11]

The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?

The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!

What did we see??

Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!

Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.

Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!

Who has lost?? The people of Ukraine.

Even the US knew there is a war coming, they asked their citizens to leave Ukraine, but didn't do anything to stop it!

Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!

Lefts fight till the end of who?

So true, they should be forced to negotiate and compromise. Instead of sending weapons, we should say enough is enough. Find a solution and end this crazy war.

[Mike963]

The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?

The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!

What did we see??

Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!

Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.

Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!

Who has lost?? The people of Ukraine.

Even the US knew there is a war coming, they asked their citizens to leave Ukraine, but didn't do anything to stop it!

Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!

Lefts fight till the end of who??

Why will they stop a war, as they know the business opportunity is their hands!!

There is no good in the world anymore, we can only choose the better evil!

If your neighbor, with whom you've had strained relations for years, breaks down your fence, comes into your house, and starts shooting, who bears primary responsibility for that situation?

If, in response to being attacked, you barricade yourself in a room, get your own gun, and return fire to defend yourself, is that somehow blameworthy? Also, in the event people are killed in the cross-fire, is there any sense in pointing the finger at both, or should it be pointed squarely in the face of the instigator?

I've never been one to defend Ukraine against allegations that they've stirred up shit against Russia in past years. And, considering the fact that they've been fighting each other (directly and via proxies) since 2014, it doesn't surprise me that there's bad blood and lots of antagonism..