Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[PedroMorales]

You guys know fuck all. You take your opinions from low level MSM sources. Your endless spam contributes nothing about the war in Ukraine. Ditto your endless spamming on American politics thread. Hard to know if you are just teenagers, Israeli / Demonazi bots or just cam boys on downtime. Either way, you parrots have nothing to contribute.

[Xpartan]

The good news is that they aren't getting their way. They are a small minority even in the Republican Party. Ukraine is getting lethal aid for the fight they wish to fight and Russia is paying a heavy price. No amount of daily, repetitive squawking in a hooker forum is going to change that.

These fellas are unbelievable. They are dying to get on their four, spread the cheeks and let world dictatorships like Russia and China have their way with them.

Not that I would mind, but they want all of us, as a country, to do the same thing.

Russians warned Washington, he said. China told us not to go to Taiwan, he said.

I mean wow!

So it's OK now for Russia and China to dictate how we should treat our allies, who we can and cannot support, where we can and cannot go? When I need to go pee-pee, should I raise my hand first?

What the hell has happened to Repubs? Weren't they always a bunch of obnoxious, tough-talking, hawkish blowhards?

[Socker]

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

This is the truth whether anyone likes it or not. America's leaders sold the war in Vietnam to the public w constant warnings of a communist take over of Asia. First Vietnam, then Cambodia, Thailand, etc etc. We lost the war and the communist takeover never happened. Millions of dead and severely wounded and it ended up being an exercise in futility. Fortunately a nuclear threat was non existent from our adversaries in 1968.

Now, 50 years later we have Ukraine vs Russia and once again the west is trying to stop Russia (still communist to some) from taking over vast territories. We're trying to stop communism all over again but this time is different because everyone has nukes. Nuclear war has never been closer to destroying humanity than it is today. Propaganda was expertly used in the Vietnam era and it's being used now. This conflict would be over now had we stayed out of it and Ukraine would be more intact w less dead Ukrainians.

Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it..

I'm always searching for the least biased news. Maybe you can point me towards a more fair and honest news source. Thanks.

[Travv]

To quote President John Quincy Adams, "America. Goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all."

If certain members of this board want to volunteer and fight in the International Legion, they are free to do so. But staying out of endless European wars as a neutral and not "seeking monsters to destroy" is just common sense. If US business wish to sell armaments to Ukraine or Russia, I am in favor of this as the "Chief business of the American people is business" President Calvin Coolidge. But not if the arms sales are based on loans or foreign aid. Switzerland has gone for centuries without foreign wars by looking to its defenses and minding its own business. Would that American politicians would copy Switzerland's aim to putting its own people first and not using them as cannon fodder in foreign disputes. Those seeking to involve Americans in another foreign war should set the example by practicing what they preach and signing up with the International Legion themselves!

I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

[DramaFree11]

You don't need more than high school. All you need to do is cut off Fox News for a while, surf around and do some valid research rather than swallowing propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for their existence against a neighbor that feels like they have no right to exist. This is based on forced and false historical narratives. The bottom line is that Russia wants their goodies, industries, farmlands, and ports and is willing to murder civilians and prisoners of war, and engage in forced deportations to get them. There's a gencocide going on. Ukraine is quite developed and successful when compared to most of Russia. Some try to blame the victim by calling Ukraine corrupt, and there is corruption there like any country. However they've made improvements since 2014 and moving away from the Russian puppet governments. They typically get much better scores on corruption measures than Russia.

But Ukrainians love freedom and their country so much that they want to fight for it. They are willing to spill the blood but have asked the West for weapons, and we have agreed as we should. This sends the right message in Europe that you can't run roughshod stealing your neighbor's land without consequence. This sets the right precedent, both for us and our NATO allies in Europe. So that's what we are doing, and the vast majority of Americans and politicians from both major political parties agree with it, while we levy cripling sanctions on the Russian economy. And none of this is likely to change as a result of any hacks or pseudo-intellectuals in a monger forum. So that's a brief summary, the bottom line, and good luck.l.

You are on crack. Ukraine was not well developed country, they were a joke a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

If Ukraine loved there country, why was everyone fleeing the country, pre-covid? This had nothing to do with the war, it had everything to do with corruption and zero opportunities for a better life. Ukraine was out of control, but that does not fit with your narrative.

You and XMan should go be correspondent for CNN. Start with doing an audit on how the government is spending the money. I doubt you will like what you find, but you would find a way to rationalize this, like all your other crazy ass views.

[DramaFree11]

I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

We have the same thing now with Pelosi going to Taiwan. China has said they absolutely do not want Pelosi to go to Taiwan. And now there is this dick measuring contest about whether Pelosi should go. It is funny to me. What is the upside of her going? Are we going to show China who is boss just like we did with Russia and Ukraine because that worked out so well? Of course Pelosi is going to go to Taiwan because the Democrats want war.

WW3 is a small price to pay for the Democrats to stay in power, and that is what the war in Ukraine is all about.

There is no reason for Pelosi to make the trip, very bad decision, but this what Dem. Do best, make horrible / risky decisions.

[Elvis 2008]

Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.

I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

We have the same thing now with Pelosi going to Taiwan. China has said they absolutely do not want Pelosi to go to Taiwan. And now there is this dick measuring contest about whether Pelosi should go. It is funny to me. What is the upside of her going? Are we going to show China who is boss just like we did with Russia and Ukraine because that worked out so well? Of course Pelosi is going to go to Taiwan because the Democrats want war.

WW3 is a small price to pay for the Democrats to stay in power, and that is what the war in Ukraine is all about.

[Paulie97]

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.

The good news is that they aren't getting their way. They are a small minority even in the Republican Party. Ukraine is getting lethal aid for the fight they wish to fight and Russia is paying a heavy price. No amount of daily, repetitive squawking in a hooker forum is going to change that.

[Xpartan]

Your hero Obama did. https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/ob...r-with-russia/.

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.

Playing dirty again, Elvis?

Or being an idiot again, Elvis?

It's either one or another, Elvis. Which is it?

First, this interview took place in 2016, way before the Bunker Rat ordered a full-blown invasion of Ukraine.

Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.

America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war.

Staying away means fuck it. No support, not weapons, no military cooperation, no nothing. That's what Travv wants. He doesn't want anyone to interfere with Russia in their attempt to finish off Ukraine.

Obama didn't want to go to war, but he didn't stay away either. He sent Ukraine $800 million non-letal military equipment and established the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative.

Why non-letal? Because there wasn't a full-blown war back then, that's why.

Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.

Let's keep antibiotics out of it, shell we, LOL?

Your references to Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq are completely out of context. First, if we didn't stop North Korea's advance, Asia and probably the whole world would look different today. Knowing what those savages have done in the territory they conquered, you surely wouldn't wish the same fate for Korea in whole?

Although wait -- I forgot you "don't give a damn about" any shitty lands that lie beyond our borders. Sorry, slipped my mind for a second.

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.

Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.

Carlson's name will live in infamy. He'll be as "famous" as Donald S. Day and Mildred Gillars one day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_S._Day#Arrest_and_charges_of_treason.

[Paulie97]

Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here .

You don't need more than high school. All you need to do is cut off Fox News for a while, surf around and do some valid research rather than swallowing propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for their existence against a neighbor that feels like they have no right to exist. This is based on forced and false historical narratives. The bottom line is that Russia wants their goodies, industries, farmlands, and ports and is willing to murder civilians and prisoners of war, and engage in forced deportations to get them. There's a gencocide going on. Ukraine is quite developed and successful when compared to most of Russia. Some try to blame the victim by calling Ukraine corrupt, and there is corruption there like any country. However they've made improvements since 2014 and moving away from the Russian puppet governments. They typically get much better scores on corruption measures than Russia.

But Ukrainians love freedom and their country so much that they want to fight for it. They are willing to spill the blood but have asked the West for weapons, and we have agreed as we should. This sends the right message in Europe that you can't run roughshod stealing your neighbor's land without consequence. This sets the right precedent, both for us and our NATO allies in Europe. So that's what we are doing, and the vast majority of Americans and politicians from both major political parties agree with it, while we levy cripling sanctions on the Russian economy. And none of this is likely to change as a result of any hacks or pseudo-intellectuals in a monger forum. So that's a brief summary, the bottom line, and good luck. .

P.S. Also all of this has been covered already on this thread and in greater detail.

[WyattEarp]

This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.

Your recent outrage was specifically triggered when I said Europe can defend itself. Sure, the United States can still be an active, contributing member with its nuclear deterrence. We don't need to be the bulwark on the ground in Europe. I don't know if I can be clear enough.

You also challenged my opinion that China is the preeminent global threat. I stated that we need to focus more on the Western Pacific. Quoting your post "They (China) are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia. " Most Americans (and a lot of Taiwanese, Japanese etc.) would disagree with you.

In reality, none of my positions in reality conflict with providing major support for the Ukraine.

These are clearly stated opinions that really don't fit into your box described wishy washy. As I said, you want to put everyone in a black and white box or else they break your rigid views. You have to allow for for some nuance and varying opinions on social media. Jmsuttr and I could always have different perspectives while having civil discussions.

[Paulie97]

So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on.

Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.

As to any "culture war," that's just code for traditionally marginalized people empowering themselves and demanding rights and a voice. The internet facilitates much of this. This makes a lot of folks uncomfortable, especially those seeing their privilege slipping away. There's also a lot of money to be made stirring these folks up screaming that the sky is falling. Just look at the homes that Carlson and Hannity live in for starters. Habitually lying with a charismatic flair pays.

With that I'm over and out. I have a trip to Colombia coming up soon, plus anyone interested in my views on this can check my post history. I've answered every possible objection several times already, am done going in circles. Maybe Wyatt can lead you all in a love in. He's flexible, I mean wishy washy enough. Wink.

[Paulie97]

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts.

This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.

[Elvis 2008]

Non-vital according to who? Who gave you a magic dick to decide what's vital and what's not?

Your hero Obama did. https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/ob...r-with-russia/.

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.

Your ideological forefathers in the 1930's sang the same tune about Japan and the Nazis. Non-vital, my ass.

Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.

[Socker]

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts. I wouldn't read Paulie or Elvis last references to me to try to gauge my opinions. That would seem to make sense.

Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here. All involved in the Ukrainian back and forth are super smart and very few open to change based on reality. This is because reality (right and wrong) is being successfully challenged in the west. Many things that used to be right are now wrong. I've been around for 70 years and things have never been worse in America. This is lost on most people under 40 as they've only been adults during the decline. The decline has been in the works for 30 years and I have a front row seat in San Francisco, a once world class city and now an embarrassment.

So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on. Before this cultural war (as they call it) most people believed the truth is more important than party affiliation but this sadly is no longer the case. Thanks for not biting my head off as some here enjoy doing when you have an alternative pov. All the best.