Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[WyattEarp]

You'll appreciate the pun when you watch the short video included in the thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...657124352.html

This is why you don't rely on economic statistics published by authoritarian regimes.

Private investment groups dig into statistics that the regime is not giving attention and manipulating. Western investment groups look at Chinese electric usage and truck traffic to see what is happening inside the China economy.

[DramaFree11]

There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.

Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.

It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.

P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.

They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.

Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.

[WyattEarp]

As far as third-party brokers are concerned, maybe I'm having a brain cramp but for the life of me I'm struggling to recall a circumstance, at least in modern times, in which any have played a substantive role or made a material difference. Do you have any specific examples in mind?

When one combatant surrenders unconditionally it doesn't much matter where the agreement is signed. And if neither side is ready to negotiate, third parties are irrelevant, as witness the Ukraine-Russia meetings that took place in Istanbul. Maybe the best role for a mediator, when the time is ripe, is just to provide a meeting venue and make sure there's plenty of coffee on hand! Oh yes, and pastries would be great, as would a nice lunch. The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?

Third party brokers routinely appear in peace talks. Whether the talks resulted in a permanent end to conflict is another story. The Indians assisted in ending the Korean Conflict. As many know, there was no signed agreement just a cessation of military conflict. The most famous and successful peace talks might be the Camp David Accords where Jimmy Carter engaged the Egyptians and the Israelis. He won a Nobel Peace Prize in the process and the peace has held for forty years. There have been many foreign parties involved in peace negotiations in the series of recent agreements in the Sudan. I am not up on the Sudan to know how successful the peace talks have been in maintaining peace.

You might look at recent talks in Istanbul as a waste of time. Obviously, peace talks work best when both parties are tired and exhausted from the conflict. I have no idea how this conflict will be settled. No one knows if a permanent peace will be attainable.

The Paris Peace Talks went on for four years before an agreement was signed. Clearly, the United States thought (wrongly) they had something to gain to continue on with the conflict. I would hope no one wants to see Russia fighting in the Ukraine for several years. Again, I don't know how it comes to an end.

As far as who is left to be an honest broker (with not too much emphasis on broker), I already have mentioned Turkey, India and even China. Although China praised Putin before the war, I'm not sure they have done anything material to support Russia.

[Mike963]

And it looks like I already have a compnay in that group.

And, in response, Russia would destroy half the world, and NATO would proceed to destroy the other half.

There, no more war, we've solved it, right?

You sound like a child whining at their parents to make the thunder and lightning stop. It's understandable that a child doesn't know the difference between what's possible and what's not, because they think their parents can do anything.

So, what's your excuse? Please tell us who has the power to make the thunder and lightning stop?

Or, if you prefer, we could simply push the button that ends up decimating the world. Not to worry, if you live anywhere near a population center, you shouldn't feel much. Just a bright flash and it'll all be over. And, as a bonus, your silhouette will be emblazoned on the nearest wall.

But hey, the war will stop. In fact, ALL wars will be stopped. Happy days, right?

P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. The second are people who constantly whine and complain about things, but offer nothing constructive. In school, in the workplace, among acquaintances (and even family), those people are universally hated. So far, your posts in this forum have placed you firmly in that latter group.

[Mike963]

By the way, I am not an American!!

As I said, whatever happend who will lose? The Common people!

Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.

BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.

[Jojosun]

Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!!

So Putin needs to be awarded The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate award for defending Russia and its people by destroying and occupying at present 20% of Ukraine.

Remember Czechoslovakia in 1968 ?? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y228MtvAa3I.

[PedroMorales]

You made a racist statement about mosquitoes and Africans. I corrected you. All you can do in your little Habara factory is hurl insults. From a point of view of ignorance.

"Russian orcs" more racism.

Go and beat up some Christians or Muslims, you pig.

Meanwhile, the Russian military roll on to victory.

Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!

Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO!

[Travv]

Just fueled up yesterday at the pump and noticed the prices are skyrocketing. Meanwhile the Russians have lots of gas and oil and are making bank and rolling in the cash from energy sales. This war is boosting the income that Russia receives from its oil and gas. Look in the mirror and figure out who is being sanctioned at the gas pump and grocery store. Tucker: You are about to get a lot poorer. Fox News host reacts to Biden banning Russian oil and natural gas imports on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight. ' #FoxNews #Tucker Biden's Latest Attack on the Middle Class. A youtube video dated March 8, 2022 well worth watching as it accurately describes who is getting screwed with these sanctions. Got a mirror handy? Visited the gas station for a fillup lately?

Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.

Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:

https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05

Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.

As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.

Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.

As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.

[Jmsuttr]

Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.

BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.

Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.

Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:

https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05

Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.

As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.

Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.

As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.

[Paulie97]

It's characteristics and how to counter it.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

[Jmsuttr]

Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.

There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.

Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.

It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.

P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.

[Paulie97]

I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.

The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.

If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.

Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.

Much of the victim blaming is based on Russian propaganda disseminated in the West 2014 and onwards that goes largely unanswered, or just slanted academic analysis that blames NATO while ignoring the agencies of the Eastern Euro countries that had good reason to want to join.

That was just an excuse anyway as Putin later said he had no problems with Sweden and Finland joining. Ukraine has some very valuable lands, farming and seaports. Putin wants them. Many wars have been fought in that region over the centuries for that precise reason.

https://www.politico.eu/article/puti...den-join-nato/

Plus Zelensky was democratically elected and Ukraine has a Freedom House score of 61 out of 100, not great but about on par with Hungary. They've made a lot of progress. It's far greater than Russia's dismal 15 and Belarus' 5.

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

Mostly what we get here though is what I'd call monger forum drive by whiners. They lay out conspiracy theories while usually blaming US democrats for anything that may be wrong in their own lives or in the world. No source or proof is linked, and when asked for it it's never forthcoming. They don't return until they have another unproven assertion or if the mood strikes them to repeat the prior one over again. They don't want to tell us that they heard it the other night listening to Tucker Carlson or reading an obscure far right blog or their FB feed. Here's a good article, especially much of what is found through the sourced imbedded links. This source has a fabulous rating in the matter of media bias and fact checks.

https://theconversation.com/how-russ...ukraine-180202

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/

Here's more that's worth a look.

https://www.state.gov/fact-vs-fictio...on-on-ukraine/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/ho...war-in-ukraine

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/03/03...a-ukraine-war/

[Jmsuttr]

Mosquitoes are not universally hated. West Africans have songs praising them because they killed the white colonialists, people like you. But then Africans are not even people to things like you.

Meanwhile, the great Russian Army roll on and American continues to fight to the last Ukrainian.

Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!

Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO!

[DramaFree11]

I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.

The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.

If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.

Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.

I have never said Putin is not to blame. He started it, but there also many others that do not want the war to end. We should be demanding a ceasefire and negotiations. Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.

[Travv]

Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.

BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.

Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.

But no one is trying to stop it.