Stupid Shit in Kyiv

**Paulie97** · 04-05-23 05:23

Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]

Whatever internal issues were happening WITHIN Ukraine, Russia had NO fucking right to cross the borders. Russia had plenty of infuence in post-Soviet Ukraine, both directly and through proxies. It's clear from the way things unfolded that Ukraine wants to have a future in Europe and NOT in Russia's sphere of influence. If that wasn't the case, then Russia would have been welcomed in the way that Putin delusionally thought would happen. The fact that Ukraine has resisted tooth-and-nail, INCLUDING in predominantly Russian-speaking areas, is proof positive that Ukrainians want Putin and his Orcs to fuck off to hell.

And that precisely was the "provocation" to Little Vlad, freedom loving Ukrainians that wanted to go another way, just as many former Soviet bloc countries did. So rather than accept that the Russians commit mass murder, rape, and steal children. We see the same committed on the micro scale all the time by jilted lovers with violent responses to rejection. And Little Vlad's demands to NATO were all a ruse to prop up a justification as he already knew he'd be declined. NATO membership is open to all who qualify according to the charter. Any committment to exclude Ukraine perpetually is out of bounds and certainly beyond the authority of the US. Thus Americans who blame the US are siding with Russia and thus are traitors to their own country.

But fuck, I covered all this a year ago and at least twenty times since then so I'm taking a very long vacation from the discussion. And fact is I'm a South America guy so likely will never make it to Kyiv, as far as the other thread goes. Though I'll never say never. Wink.

**Paulie97** · 04-05-23 03:47

Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]

Here's just one of many articles debunking the tired "CIA coup" cliche:

https://bitterwinter.org/myth-of-the...kraine-2-2014/

Article highlights:

1. Little Victor already had a sketchy political history in Ukraine.

"Viktor Yanukovych, the politician whose presidential election was annulled by the Supreme Court for electoral fraud in 2004".

2. Little Victor won the 2010 election with less than 50% of the vote. And he ran on an electoral platform that was specifically in favor of integration with the EU.

"Yanukovych ran again for President in 2010, with a platform that included Ukraine's request to become part of the European Union. He won the election by obtaining in the second turn 48.95% of the vote against 45.47% of his opponent Julia Tymosenko".

3. After his election, not only did Little Victor arrest his political rival (Tymosenko) but he completely reneged on his commitment to EU integration.

"On November 21,2013, Yanukovych abruptly announced that he would not sign the Association Agreement with the European Union that had been agreed upon, and would rather enter into a treaty of economic cooperation with Russia. This was a complete about-face with respect to the program on which he had been elected".

4. Little Victor cemented his reputation as Putin's lackey when he adopted the Russian whitewashed view of the Stalin-orchestrated Holodomor famine.

"When Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper during his visit to Ukraine went to pay his respects to the victims of the Holodomor, many of whom were ancestors of Canadian Ukrainians, at the Kiev memorial of the genocide, Yanukovych declined to participate and told Harper there had been no genocide. As some scholars have noted, many non-Ukrainians failed to understand the enormity of Yanukovych's claim. It was as if a president of Israel would publicly deny the Holocaust".

5. If 1-4 (above) are thought of as the kindling, this next highlight is what actually lit the fire.

"What started in Maidan Square as a small and peaceful protest mostly by university students escalated to violence and to a revolution, which was called Euromaidan or the Revolution of Dignity. What changed the course of the events was the brutal repression of the students by police on November 29. Dozens of students were badly beaten. Many who went to Maidan Square after November 29 would probably not have protested for the European Union, but took to the streets to denounce police brutality, which they regarded as evidence of the authoritarian drift of the Yanukovych government".

One final point made in the article is that the estimates of protesters in Kyiv range from 400,000 to 800,000. So, in order to believe in the "CIA" myth, you have to deny each of those protesters their individual agency. Each one of those people made an individual decision to actively join the protests. If you think the CIA can mind-control hundreds of thousands of people, then I have a bridge across the Kerch Strait to sell you.

Or, one can take the "Occam's Razor" approach and consider the plain facts of the matter. Little Victor did not have a large base of support and, after reneging on a key campaign promise and adopting a Holodomor-denial position, flushed the remainder of his support down the toilet. Then, thinking he could stay in power using brutal and repressive tactics, he lit the match that sent him crashing, burning, and fleeing to Russia.

Solid and well summarized by yourself. Only problem is that Tucker Carlson fans also pay for pussy. In fact good family values conservatives likely buy ass disproportionately, thus we are compelled to go in circles here. Wink.

**Questner** · 04-05-23 03:47

Quote of the day, 'To paraphrase former Secretary of Defense Bob Gates, any American president or politician who is willing to risk a high-end conventional land war with Russia should have his head examined, or at a minimum, deserves serious psychiatric care. The same must be said of anyone in Washington who wants to engage in nuclear brinksmanship with Moscow. '.

**Questner** · 04-05-23 03:40

Originally Posted by ReinerOtto [View Original Post]

What do you want to say here?

BTW, I crossed the Dnjepr bridge at Cherson many times; I know Crimea very well, even attending a few times "Z" over there.

And I know Putler from my years in Peter.

However, I condemn Putler for his aggression onto their brothers. Although Russians always had some type of "Herrenmenschen" attitude.

Kudos to you. My post was addressed to ISG's prolific arm chair generals. As for the President, this horrible disaster reflects visibly upon him also. What choice in realpolitik has he got? No one ever wanted even a scratch on a hand.

**WyattEarp** · 04-05-23 00:04

Originally Posted by Beijing4987 [View Original Post]

Henry the K and Tricky Dick's "Make the Economy Scream" (in Chile). Would not have worked for Putler in "influencing" Ukraine. CIA sponsored coup ousting Victor Y ?

Possible. So what now, 400 pound incels living in mom's basement? Does Finland in NATO raise your hackles? Putler could care less, he says. Too bad Fat Nixon is being neutered. Could have ended the Special Military Operation in a day.

Was this written by ChatGPT the AI chatbot? Just curious.

**Elvis 2008** · 04-05-23 00:02

Originally Posted by Locamotive [View Original Post]

Uh. Nobody is pro Russia here, I don't think, certainly not me. If the Dallas Cowboys play a High school team I know who is going to win. This is not pro or con just a reality. From your post you've either been watching way too much western media or listening to that idiot Millie our joint chief of staff. Yes their narrative is clear as they will keep pumping weapons and money in there until no Ukraine soldiers are left. This is all promoted by the military industrial complex just like every other stupid war we've been involved with. And when its over, will we will walk away just like we always do. I feel sorry for the Ukraine people, and do not approve of Russia's actions. But Ukraine winning, they have no chance, never did.

Good post. JM's whole concept that we did not provoke Russia is crazy. There are so many videos that show otherwise but the two best ones I have seen are here:

https://www.cc.com/video/y1wxc3/the-...sis-in-ukraine

https://rumble.com/v1m0df8-the-colbe...-02242014.html

The guest on the Colbert report, back when Steven Colbert was funny, even said we wanted to prevent Russia from attacking Ukraine. So fear of provoking a Russian invasion was present back in 2014 and the soothing words to keep back an invasion apparently were no longer spoken. Biden said to Putin he would not rule out Ukraine joining NATO, and Russia invaded shortly after that.

Matt Taibbi, one of the few journalists I trust, has said that there are now two parties in Washington. They are not Republican and Democrat but pro-war and anti-war. Trump and Bernie Sanders are anti-war and HRC and Biden are in the pro-war party. If you are in the antiwar party, you can expect what Trump got today and what Bernie Sanders got in the primaries.

The setup is the same. Build up a guy or guys to be the epitome of evil. And then give the military industrial complex trillions to knock him out of power and watch as things get even worse in said country. We have seen this movie before with Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and the Taliban. And anyone who objects to that money being spent on this nonsense abroad is told, "What is a matter with you, you love Hussein, Gaddafi, the Taliban, or Putin?

And you are right. The Ukrainian people will suffer the same fate as those in Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan while the military industrial complex lines its pockets. If you oppose them, well, you end up dead like JFK or charged like Trump. Biden was building up for war on literally the first day he was in office.

**Jmsuttr** · 04-04-23 23:59

Originally Posted by Beijing4987 [View Original Post]

Henry the K and Tricky Dick's "Make the Economy Scream" (in Chile). Would not have worked for Putler in "influencing" Ukraine. CIA sponsored coup ousting Victor Y ?

Possible. So what now, 400 pound incels living in mom's basement? Does Finland in NATO raise your hackles? Putler could care less, he says. Too bad Fat Nixon is being neutered. Could have ended the Special Military Operation in a day.

Here's just one of many articles debunking the tired "CIA coup" cliche:

https://bitterwinter.org/myth-of-the...kraine-2-2014/

Article highlights:

1. Little Victor already had a sketchy political history in Ukraine.

"Viktor Yanukovych, the politician whose presidential election was annulled by the Supreme Court for electoral fraud in 2004".

2. Little Victor won the 2010 election with less than 50% of the vote. And he ran on an electoral platform that was specifically in favor of integration with the EU.

"Yanukovych ran again for President in 2010, with a platform that included Ukraine's request to become part of the European Union. He won the election by obtaining in the second turn 48.95% of the vote against 45.47% of his opponent Julia Tymosenko".

3. After his election, not only did Little Victor arrest his political rival (Tymosenko) but he completely reneged on his commitment to EU integration.

"On November 21,2013, Yanukovych abruptly announced that he would not sign the Association Agreement with the European Union that had been agreed upon, and would rather enter into a treaty of economic cooperation with Russia. This was a complete about-face with respect to the program on which he had been elected".

4. Little Victor cemented his reputation as Putin's lackey when he adopted the Russian whitewashed view of the Stalin-orchestrated Holodomor famine.

"When Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper during his visit to Ukraine went to pay his respects to the victims of the Holodomor, many of whom were ancestors of Canadian Ukrainians, at the Kiev memorial of the genocide, Yanukovych declined to participate and told Harper there had been no genocide. As some scholars have noted, many non-Ukrainians failed to understand the enormity of Yanukovych's claim. It was as if a president of Israel would publicly deny the Holocaust".

5. If 1-4 (above) are thought of as the kindling, this next highlight is what actually lit the fire.

"What started in Maidan Square as a small and peaceful protest mostly by university students escalated to violence and to a revolution, which was called Euromaidan or the Revolution of Dignity. What changed the course of the events was the brutal repression of the students by police on November 29. Dozens of students were badly beaten. Many who went to Maidan Square after November 29 would probably not have protested for the European Union, but took to the streets to denounce police brutality, which they regarded as evidence of the authoritarian drift of the Yanukovych government".

One final point made in the article is that the estimates of protesters in Kyiv range from 400,000 to 800,000. So, in order to believe in the "CIA" myth, you have to deny each of those protesters their individual agency. Each one of those people made an individual decision to actively join the protests. If you think the CIA can mind-control hundreds of thousands of people, then I have a bridge across the Kerch Strait to sell you.

Or, one can take the "Occam's Razor" approach and consider the plain facts of the matter. Little Victor did not have a large base of support and, after reneging on a key campaign promise and adopting a Holodomor-denial position, flushed the remainder of his support down the toilet. Then, thinking he could stay in power using brutal and repressive tactics, he lit the match that sent him crashing, burning, and fleeing to Russia.

**Beijing4987** · 04-04-23 22:23

Henry the K and Tricky Dick's "Make the Economy Scream" (in Chile). Would not have worked for Putler in "influencing" Ukraine. CIA sponsored coup ousting Victor Y ?

Possible. So what now, 400 pound incels living in mom's basement? Does Finland in NATO raise your hackles? Putler could care less, he says. Too bad Fat Nixon is being neutered. Could have ended the Special Military Operation in a day.

**VinDici** · 04-04-23 19:17