Thread: Stupid Shit in Kyiv
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06-25-22 22:14 #980
Posts: 1056Iskander-M missiles
Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.
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06-25-22 22:07 #979
Posts: 3224Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
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06-25-22 19:57 #978
Posts: 2842Re Toxic Subject
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-...the-holocaust/
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06-25-22 15:27 #977
Posts: 2842Toxic Subject.
A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.
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06-25-22 14:17 #976
Posts: 2374Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.
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06-24-22 21:19 #975
Posts: 516Another mindlessly meandering post. You're digging the hole deeper.
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/c...aine-genocide/
If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.
My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.
But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.
BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.
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06-24-22 20:13 #974
Posts: 1956Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.
The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 18:21 #973
Posts: 1056An American Spams
If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.
Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.
As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.
You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.
As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.
Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 17:05 #972
Posts: 3224LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.
Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?
Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.
Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.
EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.
Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."
"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."
Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.
End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.
As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.
I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.
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06-24-22 15:20 #971
Posts: 2842First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-historic-vote
So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??
Here's what some commentators in Israel are saying "The prime minister's 'neutrality' in the Russian war against Ukraine is outrageous" https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-703432.
And Zelensky who also has family in Israel singled out Israel. . https://www.jta.org/2022/06/23/globa...against-russia.
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06-24-22 04:42 #970
Posts: 1956Originally Posted by Jojosun [View Original Post]
And Ukrainians did it again during the WW2.
So your point being is what? That they deserve what's coming to them now, in 2022?
What's your take on today's Germany?
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06-24-22 04:31 #969
Posts: 1956Originally Posted by Golfinho [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 02:48 #968
Posts: 516A thought-experiment and challenge to those who keep trotting out the nukes issue.
To begin with, I'm certainly not an expert on nuclear deterrence, but I have lived through the Cold War years, with fallout shelters, duck and cover drills, and all that.
So feel free to correct me if I make any substantially incorrect statements, but it's my understanding that both the US and Russia have enough nuclear capability to obliterate the other. Sure, there might be survivors in remote areas or in hardened shelters, but (if either side desired it) they could destroy pretty much everything that made the other's society viable. I don't know if the terminology has changed, but I recall that being described as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).
Also, as I understand it, a significant portion of each side's nuclear arsenal is either mobile (submarine, ship, aircraft) or housed in facilities that would be resistant to being taken out in a first strike. I'm sure there might be other retaliative capabilities, but those are all I need to make my point.
And the point is simply this: Neither side can know with certainty that: a) The other side wouldn't respond; and, b) The other side couldn't respond. They might think the probability is low, or high, or something in between, but they can't know for sure.
So let's assume there are people on both sides who are more hawkish than others. Let's say Russia has some hawks who might be willing to risk launching a first strike. Well, at the moment of launch, it becomes irrelevant how many hawks are on the US side because retaliation becomes a defensive imperative. In other words, the reasons for not launching a first-strike pretty much disappear when you're retaliating against an attacker. And, unless a Russian (or US) hawk can guarantee they can take out each and every nuclear-capable asset of the other, they've essentially condemned both sides to the same fate.
Let's take it one step further. Assume there are some intelligent people in the chain of command on both sides. It's my argument that, for those people, an order to launch a first strike, when your own existence is not being threatened, is the same as an order to kill your own family, hometown, and society. Faced with such an order, why wouldn't the intelligent person refuse to comply? Even if threatened with death, they're dead either way. My personal response would be something like, "If you want to destroy humanity, and our country, I can't stop you. But I'm not going to be the one to do it!" and there's no incentive I can think of that would change that calculus. And this isn't something you can practice. Sure, you can have drills and readiness exercises, but nothing prepares people for the real thing as it's like putting a gun against your own head (and the head of your wife, kids, etc.) AND pulling the trigger when you really want to continue living.
While there's no way to know for sure, there's a huge uncertainty when it comes to the human factor if a first-strike order was to be given. And it's that very uncertainty that is woven throughout the fabric of MAD.
Ah, but what about tactical nukes? There's certainly an argument that can be made about differences there. But what if one tactical nuke is responded to with another, and then a tit-for-tat ensues that leads to escalation and back to the MAD scenario? Once again, uncertainty rears its ugly head.
And isn't uncertainty therefore the fundamental problem that no amount of bravado and chest-thumping (or planning) can overcome? It doesn't matter how big or strong or loud (or clever) someone is, playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has all cylinders full will still have the predictable result. But wait, do we know for sure how many bullets are in the gun? Answer: No, we don't. And there's no way we can know with certainty. Are you still willing to pull that trigger?
I'll close with that, and open the floor to debate. Although I'm sure there will be some who won't be interested in rational debate. But that's to be expected.
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06-24-22 01:43 #967
Posts: 1680Lol
Originally Posted by WyattEarp [View Original Post]
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06-24-22 01:27 #966
Posts: 516Newsflash: US-led NATO is increasing its presence throughout Europe.
Originally Posted by PedroMorales [View Original Post]
What's truly hilarious is that, no matter how much you post about your Russian propaganda wet-dreams, reality keeps marching merrily along, laughing at you and farting in your face as it passes you by.