Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Xpartan]

First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

Well, now you know. There are no innocents when it comes to atrocities against Jews in Eastern Europe. In almost every country occupied by the Nazis during the WW2, the local population was more than happy to join in on the fun. Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, you name it.

The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.

The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

Well, I would take an issue with "vast majority" but yes, a lot of Poles remain deeply anti-Semitic. Ukraine also used to be very anti-Semitic during the Soviet times, but times have changed. 73% Ukrainians did vote for a Jewish President. That accounts for something. Hey, you don't have to be a Pole or Ukrainian to be a vicious anti-Semite. Look at our own Merdo Immorales, what else do you need?

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

It has everything to do with Germany. If you believe that Ukrainians must be held responsible for the atrocities committed 80-100 years ago, then how come you don't treat today's Germans with the same contempt? They did murder 6 million Jews after all.

So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.

So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??

Israel is in a difficult position. It's a tiny nation completely surrounded by enemies. Russia has troops stationed in Syria, and it could make life incredibly difficult to Israel. And not in terms of gas prices, mind you, but the blood of Israeli citizens. If there is one country on Earth that has legitimate reasons to avoid being pulled into this conflict, that's Israel.

[PedroMorales]

If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.

Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.

As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.

You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.

As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-historic-vote.

[Elvis 2008]

LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.

Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?

Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.

Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.

EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.

Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."

"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."

Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.

End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.

As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.

I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.

[Jojosun]

First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-historic-vote

So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??

Here's what some commentators in Israel are saying "The prime minister's 'neutrality' in the Russian war against Ukraine is outrageous" https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-703432.

And Zelensky who also has family in Israel singled out Israel. . https://www.jta.org/2022/06/23/globa...against-russia.

[Xpartan]

2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.

https://us.macmillan.com/books/97812...ivilizedeurope

"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogromsethnic riotsdominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.

Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".

The other Historian https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02...yr-viatrovych/.

The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.

Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.

There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.

In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-f...ot-be-ignored-.

So their ancestors did some truly shitty things 100 years ago. Let me give you a hand here. It wasn't the first time. Bogdan Khmelnitsky and his hordes massacred Jews as far back as in 16th century.

And Ukrainians did it again during the WW2.

So your point being is what? That they deserve what's coming to them now, in 2022?

What's your take on today's Germany?

[Xpartan]

You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.

Back down from what, you ignoramus? Russia was so confident that Japanese "wouldn't dare" that Nicolas promised to pelt them with Russian hats. Not unlike the current tsar, he tried to raise Russian nationalism by taking on a supposedly weaker opponent. That arrogance eventually ended in a cellar of a private house in Siberia with him and all his family buchered by bolsheviks.

[Jmsuttr]

To begin with, I'm certainly not an expert on nuclear deterrence, but I have lived through the Cold War years, with fallout shelters, duck and cover drills, and all that.

So feel free to correct me if I make any substantially incorrect statements, but it's my understanding that both the US and Russia have enough nuclear capability to obliterate the other. Sure, there might be survivors in remote areas or in hardened shelters, but (if either side desired it) they could destroy pretty much everything that made the other's society viable. I don't know if the terminology has changed, but I recall that being described as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).

Also, as I understand it, a significant portion of each side's nuclear arsenal is either mobile (submarine, ship, aircraft) or housed in facilities that would be resistant to being taken out in a first strike. I'm sure there might be other retaliative capabilities, but those are all I need to make my point.

And the point is simply this: Neither side can know with certainty that: a) The other side wouldn't respond; and, b) The other side couldn't respond. They might think the probability is low, or high, or something in between, but they can't know for sure.

So let's assume there are people on both sides who are more hawkish than others. Let's say Russia has some hawks who might be willing to risk launching a first strike. Well, at the moment of launch, it becomes irrelevant how many hawks are on the US side because retaliation becomes a defensive imperative. In other words, the reasons for not launching a first-strike pretty much disappear when you're retaliating against an attacker. And, unless a Russian (or US) hawk can guarantee they can take out each and every nuclear-capable asset of the other, they've essentially condemned both sides to the same fate.

Let's take it one step further. Assume there are some intelligent people in the chain of command on both sides. It's my argument that, for those people, an order to launch a first strike, when your own existence is not being threatened, is the same as an order to kill your own family, hometown, and society. Faced with such an order, why wouldn't the intelligent person refuse to comply? Even if threatened with death, they're dead either way. My personal response would be something like, "If you want to destroy humanity, and our country, I can't stop you. But I'm not going to be the one to do it!" and there's no incentive I can think of that would change that calculus. And this isn't something you can practice. Sure, you can have drills and readiness exercises, but nothing prepares people for the real thing as it's like putting a gun against your own head (and the head of your wife, kids, etc.) AND pulling the trigger when you really want to continue living.

While there's no way to know for sure, there's a huge uncertainty when it comes to the human factor if a first-strike order was to be given. And it's that very uncertainty that is woven throughout the fabric of MAD.

Ah, but what about tactical nukes? There's certainly an argument that can be made about differences there. But what if one tactical nuke is responded to with another, and then a tit-for-tat ensues that leads to escalation and back to the MAD scenario? Once again, uncertainty rears its ugly head.

And isn't uncertainty therefore the fundamental problem that no amount of bravado and chest-thumping (or planning) can overcome? It doesn't matter how big or strong or loud (or clever) someone is, playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has all cylinders full will still have the predictable result. But wait, do we know for sure how many bullets are in the gun? Answer: No, we don't. And there's no way we can know with certainty. Are you still willing to pull that trigger?

I'll close with that, and open the floor to debate. Although I'm sure there will be some who won't be interested in rational debate. But that's to be expected.

[Paulie97]

This is an excellent post Elvis.

This twerp chases down every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, from Covid to stolen election nonsense. For you to hit your knees is an embarrassment, but hit it Bro, and be sure to swallow the cum when you're finished. What servile wuss.

[Jmsuttr]

You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.

Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.

Shall we call you a WAAAH-mbulance?

What's truly hilarious is that, no matter how much you post about your Russian propaganda wet-dreams, reality keeps marching merrily along, laughing at you and farting in your face as it passes you by.

[PedroMorales]

You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.

You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.

Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.

[Jmsuttr]

German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) head Ingo Gerhartz told the Kiel International Seapower Symposium Germany needs nuclear weapons to use against "Putin". Gerhartz is boasting of the speed with which his Luftwaffe have deployed to Slovakia and Bulgaria and how the Ukrainian AF is using them and their US-Israeli systems to murder Russian speakers.

Der Spiegel Editor Dirk Kurbjuweit published an article directly calling for Germany to have and use nuclear weapons. Kurbjuweit believes Germany was blameless in fomenting World War One and the Jews had it coming to them.

The good news is that, when this round is over, Germany will cease to exist. The only consolation is that, if Latin America survives, those who bear ultimate responsibility, will be hunted down there as well. For me, on a personal level, it won't matter, as I and hundreds of millions of others will know what the Japanese felt like after the American terrorist attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As long as America and its satraps come crushing down as well, it is all good.

As long as they continue to follow LilliPutin's trajectory, that death-spiral will continue. Right now they're having to resort to the craziest schemes to try to find soldiers (raise age limits; conscript every male, fit or unfit, in the separatist areas, etc.). Putin can't order mobilization because it would be an admission of failure.

And everyone is spitting in Little Vlad's eye! Kazakhstan, Lithuania, and now Germany! Not only does the "emperor" have no clothes, but now everyone can see what a small dick-army he has. ROTFLMAO!

As for you, who cares? Certainly not anyone in this forum, except maybe for your schmegegge-twin. But, on second thought, (like you) he probably only cares about himself.

P.S. Congratulations to Ukraine on achieving EU candidate status, defying expectations and against all odds!

[Jmsuttr]

A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's

As far as your "solider's" anecdotes are concerned. I applaud him for service and sacrifice but, with all due respect, this ain't WW-II.

I was in Pecos, Texas in 2018. Oil was not even that much. It ranged from $40 to $60 a barrel then.

Your personal anecdotes are even less relevant than those from the WW-II lecture you mentioned. And quoting an exchange between a reporter and a WH press operative, really? If you think that adds credibility to an argument, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Russia is getting economically stronger while the USA is getting weaker, and that is the point.

That's your opinion, obviously, but how about some references to back it up? I've posted a SHIT-ton of articles citing how, while Russia can sell oil and gas, they CAN'T use that revenue to buy critical components needed for their war effort. Right now there are reports circulating that Russia is having to scavenge Sony PlayStations to find some of the microchips they need. Is that a sign of a war effort being supported by a robust economy? I think not.

There is going to be fatigue, and Putin is counting on that

Maybe yes, maybe no. You obviously think you can predict the future. I merely observe what's currently happening and try to extrapolate reasonable scenarios from there. As of right now, I don't see fatigue setting in. One prime example of support for Ukraine is today's historic granting of EU candidate status. That's something people would never have predicted even a few short weeks ago.

So you may think I am talking politics but I am actually talking about the war.

No, what you're actually talking about is your own individual opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. But you've produced no credible or persuasive evidence to advance your position. BTW, it's the exact same position that some others have expressed (albeit with more concise posts) but, unfortunately for you and the other naysayers, Ukraine continues to confound many so-called experts and exceed expectations.

[WyattEarp]

A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's. He was captured at The Battle of the Bulge and was moved to a POW camp via a horse drawn vehicle and was fed a potato a day in POW camp. He said when he was captured he knew we had one the war. The Germans were using horses, he said, "And we were eating bread made in the USA 2 days ago flown in by aircraft. ". Point is that money matters in war.

The people who said the Russians not Americans defeated the Nazis have a point, but I had family who worked the railways in Iran during WW2, and the amount of munitions that were shipped into Russia was staggering. The Iranians never saw so much stuff in their entire lives. Many on that side of my family moved to the USA after seeing how prosperous the USA was. I know from them how brutal the Russians can be.

This is an excellent post Elvis. I know you from the Seeking Arrangements forum here. Your posts there are very thoughtful and succinct. Don't take this wrong way, but even when I agree with much of what you say about hypocrisy in Western foreign policy I have a hard time following all of your points. So yeah, the West have been idiots dealing with Russia and still are to some extent.

As far as your statement, "Point is that money matters in war. " This is very, very true. It's also important to note money isn't just represented by dollars, rubles and how much of a commodity like oil a country is pulling out of the ground. Money represents things like technology, industrial capacity, logistics and know-how. These all win wars.

[WyattEarp]

You left out the repeated waves of Asiatic hordes that swept across the land enslaving the populace. Why, the very word "slave" comes from "slav" LOL! A ruskie still loves drinking tea and eating Asian-style dumplings to this very day LOLOLOL!

The Russians kicked the Mongol's fuckin' ass. The Russians kicked their ass so bad they fled west and attacked Eastern Europe.

This is sheer jest of course. LOL.

[Golfinho]

https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress...t-with-russia/

Warning: do not read -- pure, made-up conspiracy propaganda.