Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Kozerog]

Yes, we did a shitty thing to Mexicans, but it was 19th century for Christ's sake. Expansionism wasn't a curse word back then. How far back do you want to go to prove your non-existent point? The Punic Wars?

Mearsheimer (https://www.mearsheimer.com/) discusses this silly idea that geopolitics is different now from 200 or 2000 years ago. Technology is different but geopolitics follows sames principles as ever. "The strong do as they wish, the weak suffer what they must" is one such principle. The weak should thus take into account the desires of the strong, especially strong neighbors, if they don't want to be beaten to a pulp.

We study past mistakes to know how to do better going forwards. Note that Ukraine STILL has that amendment in its constitution requiring the government to take steps to enter NATO and EU: https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/2680-19#n2 . Maybe Russia is lying about NATO / EU as its main concern. Easy way to find out for sure is see if capitulating on that point leads somewhere. But no, Ukraine government too busy fighting the war to take steps that might end the war.

It should be obvious to anyone with foresight that NATO / EU will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe. Türkiye will almost certainly not be included in this USE, but rather will form a new mutual defence organization, led by USA, extending into Muslim countries and perhaps Israel, if Israel can resolve its Palestinian problem. This is why EU membership is as threatening as NATO membership.

And lest anyone think directly fighting Putin is a good idea, read about how he came to power: https://us.yahoo.com/news/putin-1999...175001959.html. Putin will not hesitate to escalate if he is losing. He will saturation bomb Kyiv. He will use tactical nukes against Ukraine. He will use strategic nukes against a mid-size city in the USA, even if certain USA will retaliate against a mid-sized city in Russia. He cares no more about losing a mid-sized Russian city than losing a few Russian soldiers or tanks. They are equally pieces on the chess board which can sacrificed as needed in order to ensure victory. USA has enjoyed peace and hegemony so long it has forgotten what it's like to face a real enemy. We have become stupid, hence all these keyboard warrior comments in this thread. We need to be a lot more intelligent looking forwards.

[RedMan0505]

LOL your objection is accurate but silly. If you're looking for an "exchange of info between men who are looking for sex with women" you should not even be reading the Kyiv forum at this time. It's a war zone so the discussion is about the war.

Lmao, but sadly correct he may want to check out the Poland discussion, the cost of war is going to turn housewives and girlfriends completely out.

[Lucky Nuts]

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.

LOL your objection is accurate but silly. If you're looking for an "exchange of info between men who are looking for sex with women" you should not even be reading the Kyiv forum at this time. It's a war zone so the discussion is about the war.

[Xpartan]

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.

Understood, but it would be difficult to keep it relevant considering that the hobby in Kiev is dead for the time being.

[Xpartan]

The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.

The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?

'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-cze...-in-the-world/.

https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/cze...es-for-expats/

Apples and cucumbers.

[Xpartan]

2013-2014. EU will eventually be same thing as NATO. If corruption was the issue, why elect Yanukovych in the first place? Why wait until 2013 and the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Why not revolt in 2011 or 2012? Why change language laws the very first day the new government was in office, instead of first focusing on corruption and changing language laws later? Why re-arm, which forces Russia to invade soon or face a more difficult invasion later?

Lots of countries live next door to dangerous bullies. Mexico lost half its territory to the USA in 1848, then was forced to sell another slice to accommodate the railroad, then had to put up with USA meddling during the Mexican revolution. Mexicans had the sense to recognize that USA would simply seize their entire country if they resisted, so they didn't resist.

Yes, we did a shitty thing to Mexicans, but it was 19th century for Christ's sake. Expansionism wasn't a curse word back then. How far back do you want to go to prove your non-existent point? The Punic Wars?

What else are you driveling about? EU will be the same thing as NATO? What does it even mean? Why elect Yanukovich? I have no idea, but it's their business, not yours or mine. Why wait until the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Because that's when it was rejected. Why rearm? Gee, I don't know, maybe because Russia always threatened to invade? Who the hell are you to tell a sovereign nation what to do?

The only sensible thing here is that they shouldn't have touched the language. In a country with 20% of ethnic Russians it was foolish and insensitive. The rest is pure garbage.

[Mojo Bandit]

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.

I respect your objections and you have my apology and if I have any further things to say I will say them in the "Stupid Shit in Kiev". Even though it there is obviously not anybody sane who is currently looking for sex with women in Kiev as of now. The politics definitely should be discussed in the "stupid shit" thread.

[Jmsuttr]

That is interesting about the history of ceded lands by China to the Russian empire. I did not know about that. While one looks at China as very pragmatic maybe they do hold some resentment toward the Russians over that but be that as it may. I admit that most people think that the ideal that Russia and China have a binding defense part -.

Article 9 of the 2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation states: "When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved, or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats. ".

https://warsawinstitute.review/issue...tary-alliance/

As I understand it, a cardinal rule of diplomacy is that, you want a treaty to truly be binding, then you need lock it down with language that leaves no wiggle room. Otherwise any loophole or ambiguous interpretation is likely to be exploited, if that happens to serve the interest of the other party.

I would invite you to compare your Article 9 of the "Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation" with Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive...exts_17120.htm

There's a big difference between "immediately hold contacts and consultations" and NATO's "The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all" provision.

Now, that doesn't mean China couldn't interpret Article 9 to include armed assistance, IF they wanted to and IF it served their interests. But that treaty only commits them to contacts and consultations, nothing more.

Like you, I've been a China and Russia watcher for many years. I can't recall reading or hearing any expert assert that China and Russia have a binding mutual defense pact. And, given the current state of affairs, I think we'd be hearing a lot about it. If, however, you have a link or reference to an expert who does make that assertion, I'd certainly be glad to check it out.

[Lazy Summer]

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.

[The Cane]

The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.

The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?

'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-cze...-in-the-world/.

https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/cze...es-for-expats/

How incredibly simplistic, shallow, and uninformed. Have you ever been to the Czech Republic? Do you know any Czech people? The Russian aggression launched against them was a dark and painful time in their history. Many, many suffered and were "disappeared". A country's people should be able to pursue happiness without having to experience the pain of the paws of the Russian bear, or constantly be in fear of it. Don't you people see that this is exactly why so many countries have lined up to join NATO? The don't like Russia. They fear Russia. And Russia has done plenty, and continues to do plenty, to sustain this sentiment. The most effective way to break a bully is to stand up to him. That doesn't mean there will be no pain. I mean, once the bully sees his power and influence waning, he might resort to dirty tricks. Like trying to bite your ear off (play on Mike Tyson the bully). But then again, anybody who enjoys freedom understands the following. That freedom is never free! It normally is only achieved and preserved through blood.

[Mojo Bandit]

Agree with 99.9% of your points, except I would argue that the relationship between Russia and China may turn out to be less helpful to Russia than many think.

China always puts their own interests first, obviously, and they also have a history of issues, problems, and conflicts, with respect to Russia. For example, China makes mention from time to time of their "Century of Humiliation" at the hand of western powers. It's a powerful motivation that drives them to keep striving for power and dominance in world affairs. Well, Russia was one of the offending countries, in China's view. Do a search for Amur Annexation to see how much land China was forced to cede to Russia, including Vladivostok.

P.S. The link you shared only mentions an agreement for closer coordination and cooperation which, while certainly a matter of concern, doesn't rise to the level of a mutual defense pact. I have a hard time envisioning China ever putting their soldiers in harm's way for Russian interests.

That is interesting about the history of ceded lands by China to the Russian empire. I did not know about that. While one looks at China as very pragmatic maybe they do hold some resentment toward the Russians over that but be that as it may. I admit that most people think that the ideal that Russia and China have a binding defense part -.

Article 9 of the 2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation states: "When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved, or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats. ".

https://warsawinstitute.review/issue...tary-alliance/

[Mojo Bandit]

Definition of "a fox news correspondent": a talking head chickenhawk.

Russia and China are the same? Please don't try to explain that here Colonel General Mojo. Such insight is best kept in the highly classified think tank war room, the one in your head.

Gee comrade, let me see here: Is there public information about he degree of which Russia has been arming China and the degree of there security cooperation? Lets see here.

https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/

https://thediplomat.com/2016/12/behi...-relationship/

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3067.html

https://tass.com/politics/1379867?ut...rer=google.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_S..._of_Friendship

https://warontherocks.com/2020/08/th...e-cooperation/

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...1836911b1dbc45

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...s-trade-player

[Jojosun]

The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.

The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?

'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-cze...-in-the-world/.

https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/cze...es-for-expats/

[Tomasb]

For being a sex site, that was one heck of a good report on McGregor and other aspects of our air defense and offensive capacities in Europe and beyond. Perhaps, Flynn and McGregor are BFF?

Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.

He says Americans do not want such and such and Europe does not want such and such - and yet the vast majority want to send weapons and even the majority want to impose no-fly zone. I do not suppor us or NATO setting up a no-fly zone. I know how risky that is. I believe they support it becuase they do not understand that a know fly zone requires shooting down planes and that is the same as sending in troops. ( In a world where there were no nuclear bombs I would love to see it - our F22s would dominate them so fast it would be a sight to see)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/


I know who Colonel MacGregor is and I know there is a reason he was only a colonel and did not get selected to be a general. I am a US Army veteran and I am on several group pages of FB and other places with thousands of other veterans. They all say Macgregor is a nut case who should just go live in Russia. He was babbling nonsense about missiles. Look it up man, all of our missiles in eastern europe are defensive missilles designed to knock missiles out of the sky. They are not offensive weapons. He is a nutjob. He is literally lobbying for a foreign power saying we should not have a missile defense - which by the way is mostly ineffectiv to Russian misssiles and is directed at missiles from North Korea.

You realize Macgregor was in he was in "friends of the soviet union" (if you do not believe me check his wiki page it is in the first paragraph) and most vets I know think he got recruited by the Russian intelligence then, I do not know for sure of course but shit it makes sense. Everything he suggest doing is a benefit to Russia at the expense of the free world. I also know that the vast majority of US Army generals think his suggestions would weaken our nation's defense beyond repair.

It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...y-cooperation/

I know is it is a sad day when Americans start taking sides with a Tyrant over people who choose to live free. Ukrainians are literally saying right now "live free or die". To them it is not a bumper sticker. The president of Ukraine was offered a way out of the country and he said "I need ammunition not a ride". That is now how a corrupt leader acts. That is how a lover of theor country and of freedom acts. I am done now. Americans who do not believe in freedom should just all move to russia. I do not understand what they are waiting for.

[Lucky Nuts]

For donation I saw a lot of different stuff, even people asking to drop money on cards.

I assume there will be also some scam in these demands.

Personally I used this way.

https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/nats...potrebi-armiyi

And I also keep some money to help straight my Ukrainian contacts straight if they need / ask.

I am in regular contact with 5 people, 3 have left to Europe, 2 want to stay in Ukraine with one in Kiev.

Thanks Fred! Although an insignificant amount it feels good to give a token of appreciation directly to the forces fighting the war for democracy.