Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Jmsuttr]

I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...f-ukraine-wins

Excerpt:

"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means.

I have no problem with the article, except it would be nice to see authors include some kind of admission that there are possible outcomes they haven't thought of, or ones they've thought about but don't have a clue as to how things could turn out.

For example, what if Putin dies, or is incapacitated, or is deposed? From my reading of the article, the post-war scenarios assume that Putin's policies will continue along the same trajectory. But, if Russia suffers a humiliating defeat (as defined by Russia's own war-hawks), it's a coin-flip as to whether he stays in power. And even a peaceful transfer of power isn't a guarantee of continuity. If Russia's economy is in bad shape, the new leader could decide to blame everything on Putin.

And then there's the matter of some of their conclusions about battlefield outcomes, most notably regarding Crimea. I certainly don't have a crystal ball but I would certainly advise against making categorical statements. Right now, for example, Ukraine is mounting a counter-offensive in the South (Kherson and Nova Kakhovka areas). One possible result is that they could regain control over the primary source of water for all of Crimea. That may not be the same as retaking the entire peninsula, but it's nothing to sneeze at and would have a dramatic effect on the calculus of any subsequent negotiation.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...222022657.html

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...217876483.html

There are at least some military observers saying that one objective of the battle around Severodonetsk is to keep Russian forces from reinforcing the South. Maybe Ukraine will push to control the water source, or maybe they'll use it primarily to force Russia to defend on yet another front. I have no idea, but I'm closely watching developments in the Kherson area.

So my only real point is that war, and especially this one, is full of "unknown unknowns," which I wish more pundits and analysts would acknowledge when writing their articles.

[Jmsuttr]

Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.

I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...forces-battle/

https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/16/vladi...ulge-16837200/

He's probably a heartbeat (literally) away from some kind of debilitating medical event. In fact, one report I saw said he needed the immediate attention of his doctors at the end of a recent video meeting. And that's the probable explanation for the sudden cancellation of his scheduled "Direct Line" (live Q&A) broadcast.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/10/putin...ness-16802687/

A lot of people have already died in this war, and unfortunately that's not close to ending. And it's an absolute fact that the blood of everyone killed is on Putin's hands, they are all victims of the evil megalomaniacal dictator. Which is why it would be the truest poetic justice if he becomes the highest profile casualty of the very war he started.

But there are two big questions about what happens when Putin croaks. 1) Will the elites manage a smooth transition or start stabbing each other in the back? 2) Will they put his corpse on display like Lenin, or hang him upside down like Mussolini?

[Jojosun]

Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.

Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-role-iraq-war.

BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.

https://www.army.mil/article/15056/u...ission_in_iraq

Putin&Biden got Blood on their hands, But of course Putin has the biggest share.

And another thing, who in Russia would be able to square up to Putin in public and give him a piece of his mind in a similar way this Brave American Veteran confronted Biden! Urlreplacement0}.

[PedroMorales]

Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.

I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...forces-battle/

[Jmsuttr]

Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.

All you do is constantly regurgitate the propaganda emanating from LilliPutin's bunghole.

The fact that foreigners are flocking to Ukraine to fight against the Orc Hordes is a CREDIT to Ukraine. These are people who left their comfortable lives for a noble purpose.

In point of fact, there are volunteer fighters from at least 52 countries fighting against Putin's fascists:

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato...al-legion.html

And, when it comes to Russia, they are so desperate for soldiers that they removed the upper age limit for service and are also recalling people who already retired from the military.

Here's one notable example where a 63 year old retired Orc general was shot down and killed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shot-down.html

I guess he should have stayed in his dacha. Or maybe figured out a way to escape the sinking Russian ship, like so many other rats have already done.

[Jojosun]

Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.

Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.

Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-role-iraq-war.

BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.

https://www.army.mil/article/15056/u...ission_in_iraq

[PedroMorales]

Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.amp

Spouting stupid BBC shit. If granny did not back track, your Nazi pals, egged on by the BBC, would put one in her ear.

[Golfinho]

Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.

Death? Is that really fair? The Americans only stuck their captives in Abu Gharabi, Guantanamo and who's knows where rendition sites without trials or recourse for the rest of their lives.

[PedroMorales]

Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.

[Jojosun]

[QUOTE=Jojosun;.

Fine talk about reducing emissions, LOL "he is supposed to be committed to reducing emissions but when President Joe Biden produced a little natural gas of his own at the COP26 summit, it was audible enough to make the Duchess of Cornwall blush. ".

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10172959/Camilla-stopped-talking-hearing-President-break-wind-chat-Cop26-summit.html[/URL]

The "Sleepy Joe" doze off https://news.sky.com/video/cop26-joe...video-12457263.

Come 2024 ,he'll be Gone With The Wind. / QUOTE].

Biden's big gas crises is taking him to Saudi. Hope he doesn't do Another " long and loud and impossible to ignore" Fart, when he bends the Knee in front of MBS.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...g-saudi-arabia

[The Cane]

Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.amp

[WyattEarp]

I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...f-ukraine-wins

Excerpt:

"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means. The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."

[Jmsuttr]

It's remarkable how those who delight in pointing the finger at Ukraine fall silent when it comes to Russia. The old expression, "strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel," comes to mind.

"1/ Old rations, faulty vehicles, missing radios, under-strength units: corruption has been blamed for hollowing out Russia's military and undermining its war in Ukraine. It's worth examining this problem and seeing how it's affected the Russian armed forces. 1st 🧵 in a series".

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...220632067.html

"1/ What do jewelry, cash, antiques, watches, mansions and Jennifer Lopez have in common? They've all been sought after by corrupt Russian military officials. In this second 🧵 in a series, I'll look at high-level corruption among Russia's military elite".

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...777025024.html

[Jmsuttr]

There's a reward for the sadist in your example as they get to witness the distress of the animal or insect. Your typical online troll wants feedback. If no one is responding in any way there's none, plus they don't know if anyone is even reading their posts. They'll go someplace else where the fish are biting which isn't hard to do online. In any case your analogy is false, and by default, so is your conclusion. Wink.

https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-ana...-and-examples/

P.S. Regarding humiliation, and based on standard definitions it's tough to argue that you are humiliating a person if they are experiencing no such feelings. From Webster's:

"to reduce (someone) to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes: to make (someone) ashamed or embarrassed: Mortify".

Take DramaFree11 as an example. He's been here and on a thread in another forum about four months equating Ukraine and Russia in the matter of evil. He calls on the West to stop helping the former while doing the Chicken Little, claiming world economies will implode and endless lives will be destroyed if we continue the course. He was around two years saying the same about Covid BTW in the matter of mitigation efforts and with no fulfillment. But where's the new material? Where the humiliation? I just summed up his whole argument in less than one minute, two sentences. There's been no change. Rebuttals are ignored. It's just a couple of talking points one could gather halfway watching Tucker Carlson one night. No "proof" is offered beyond anecdotes and speculations. No links. So what does he get for his two to three minutes of typing each day? A three paragraph, well thought out essay from you in return. That's a good return on his investment, and all with the same two sentence argument, and for about four months. LOL But I'm sure not going in circles with someone like that. It comes down to how you want to spend your time I suppose.

You're great at posting links to various logical fallacies, but you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the holes in your own argument.

For example, you conclude my analogy is false because the sadist takes pleasure from witnessing the outcome of his own sadism, whereas the online troll only (emphasis mine) can take pleasure if their post is responded to (feedback).

The problem with that conclusion is that you have no objective evidence to back it up. It's purely your personal opinion, nothing more. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but, without evidence, it's simply a window-dressed pseudo-argument in search of a factual basis. I've never claimed that the way I've decided to deal with trolls is based on anything more than my own personal experience and opinion, and the analogy I offered (for illustrative purposes) doesn't change that fact.

Also, your reliance on a strict construction of the word "humiliation," while clearly ignoring the full context of what I wrote, is disingenuous. Did I not specifically write that, since trolls lack self-awareness, my aim in humiliating them is to make them a laughingstock to others? One of the essential rules of debate is to accurately characterize the argument of the opponent, which you failed to do.

Frankly, this back and forth about the best way to deal with trolls is a quintessential exemplar of a waste of time. At least it is for me, since I've already definitively stated that I have no intention of changing. I'm fine with the fact that you have your own opinion, but apparently the reverse isn't true and you seem to feel a need to "convert" me (newsflash: ain't happening).

Since you're so concerned about the effective use of time, is it really worth your time to dig up "Captain Obvious" references to logic websites when you could simply say ad hominem (etc.) and not insult the reader's intelligence by acting as though they need your assistance to define the term? Does that not strike you as a bit pretentious, or condescending? You might find it a better use of your time to research alternatives to monosyllabic subject lines. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it as you please. In the same spirit, I'm exercising my prerogative to "leave" your suggestion (wink).

[Jmsuttr]

You are total denial. Ukraine should not be allowed to join anything until they clean up there act. Produce Oil and you defeat Russia, very easy, but you guys do not want to do that.

Secondly, if Russia can not defeat Ukraine and a few Special Force Teams, they obviously can not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They are not a threat, unlike are ridiculous Media claims and even worse the CIA. There military is terrible.

I do not care who wins, but somebody please win. When The war stops the killing stops. I have bad news for you, Russia is now winning, and the higher gas prices go the more they win. Again I have zero compassion for the Ukraine government. I do care about the incident lives being lost. You guys are playing right into Putin hand. Sorry, but that is what the Ukraine government does is lose, steal and lie. They were winning, but as usual they got greedy and are too stupid to realize it.

It's looking very likely that Ukraine will be recommended for EU candidate status.

https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...s-for-ukraine/

Since your 100% anti-Ukraine beliefs have already been thoroughly outed, I'm sure that this development will cause you plenty of indigestion. I guess that's just too fucking bad for you, right?

If you're looking for someone to blame, you'll find him in the Kremlin. LilliPutin is solely responsible for pushing Ukraine toward the West, and solely responsible for pushing Sweden and Finland toward NATO. Oh yes, and also responsible for significant changes in other countries like Moldova, the Baltics, Poland, etc. My personal hope is that Ukraine's candidacy to the EU comes with a laundry list of conditions and standards that need to be met. I think that will be the case, with the result potentially being a win-win for both the EU and Ukraine, and a HUGE loss for Russia.

As far as producing more non-Russian oil, I'm all in favor of that (and anything else with the potential to deny revenue to Russia). But that doesn't offer an effective near-term solution to Russian murderous war-crimes aggression. Which is why the better answer is to kill more Orcs and drive them back to Mordor (ASAP), because Russians will keep killing until they've been utterly snuffed out or chased back into their holes.

While you say you don't care who wins, I highly doubt that since you exclusively advocate for anti-Ukraine solutions. In stark contrast, I absolutely care who wins, as Russia is evil to the core and has revealed that fact to the world since February 24th. I'm not ignoring Ukraine's problems, or absolving them of past sins, but no country deserves to be swallowed whole by the Orc horde.