Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Bill1963]

LOL I come back 2 years later to this forum and the drama continues.

I said Russia will prevail and Ukraine will lose.

If you have any brains and common sense, you would know this to be true.

The usual suspects (the pro Ukraine nerds haha) claimed Ukraine would push Russia out by end of 2022 lmao.

And that the Russian economy would collapse.

Well well, none of that happened, did it nerds, you nerds know who you are.

The same dummies that kept saying Ukraine will win.

The reality is Russia will never lose any of the land it has taken control of.

For following reasons.

1. Russia is far more powerful.

2, the areas were formerly in history, Russian lands, so Russia would probably fight to nuclear war for its historic lands.

3, and DUH its full of majority of Russians, so DUH nerds, you have a populace friendly to the Russian army and government.

Its very difficult controlling lands when the populace hates you.

That's why Russia has no interest in the Baltics and Poland for example.

It doesn't strengthen them at all.

The reality is.

The Russian economy is stronger now, sorry nerds its true.

The Ukraine economy is destroyed, the world now pays its bills, total welfare state now.

All the young men have been slaughtered because of some fat heads that didn't want to negotiate (the nerds will have a heart attack on this one).

The world will quit funding this war probably as soon as 2025.

Ukraine will be a ghost town until a real peace deal is done, sorry no capital will come to Ukraine until a real solid peace deal is signed by all sides.

If the west persists in this slaughter, there will be no men left under age of 40 left in Ukraine in next 2 years, ruined for a generation.

Who you going to rebuild the country with? 60 yr old fogeys?

Every pretty girl over 18 will leave Ukraine as no young men to marry.

The end of mongering forever, they will flood the country with immigrants on the west side of Ukraine for cheap labour and young men.

This country will never be the same as the Ukraine I enjoyed from 2010 to 2017.

[DramaFree11]

Yeah, the intelligence agencies lied their asses off about Russiagate, and Putin was telling the truth, so your whole narrative of Putin as dishonest and we are honest blows up in your face.

That is not going to happen. What do you propose besides peace with Putin? 400,000 dead Ukrainians is not enough for you? You know the average soldier in Ukraine is pushing 45 years old? That people in Ukraine are opposing and protesting the drafting of men to fight in this war? That the wealthy in Ukraine left town before the war started? That guys on here have seen those in the Ukrainian government living it up at the Globe Club in Switzerland and Zelensky is buying up properties in Europe? That the Ukrainian economy has been going down at a rate of 8% a year?

This war was supposed to hurt Russia. Well, Russia is now the biggest economy in Europe overtaking Germany. Germany has gotten killed economically because they are paying through the nose for expensive nonRussian natural gas, and other nations have had to bear the burden of Ukrainian refugees..

Great post, but I am afraid the number of dead Ukraine soldiers is pushing 500,000 or more, add in the the critically wounded you are looking at 1.2-1.5 million. Just horrible.

Russia is way stronger than before the war, including there economy. The Euro's and West economies are in shambles. Great job, Democrats.

[Riina]

In the mean time, Tucker Carlson shot this video of the Russian subway system and compared it to those in the West. https://twitter.com/i/status/1757901280830505037.

Kind of hard to listen to TC. Moscow is not Russia.

[Xpartan]

In a media briefing ahead of the meeting, French diplomatic sources said VIGINUM, the French watchdog that monitors foreign digital interference, had identified some 193 websites that aimed to broadly spread information from pro-Russian sources as well as Russian news outlets and institutions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ns-2024-02-12/

But at least people who disseminate Russian fake news are paid pretty well. Yet, they rely on an army of useful idiots who're more than willing to spread and amplify all kinds of Kremlin-produced lies gratis. Tucker Carlson will have probably monetized his Putin's "interview" to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, but who if not his followers are helping him to do all the heavy lifting. Just look at these 'postulates' from one of his disciples, LOL.

- The intelligence agencies lied their asses off about Russiagate, and Putin was telling the truth.

- 400,000 dead Ukrainians.

- Zelensky is buying up properties in Europe.

- Those in the Ukrainian government living it up at the Globe Club in Switzerland.

- The Ukrainian economy has been going down at a rate of 8% a year.

- Russia is now the biggest economy in Europe overtaking Germany.

- Germany has gotten killed economically.

- Moscow metro system is nice.

If you wonder whether ANY of Elvis' musings here are truthful, the answer is yes. Yes, I admit it!

Moscow metro is pretty nice and efficient.

Probably not much nicer or more efficient than Montreal, Berlin, London, Paris, Tokyo, Washington, DC, and -- deep breath -- even Rio or SP, but it's really pretty good. Especially that no one today remembers that it was built on the bones of thousands of workers including GULAG prisoners sacrificed by Stalin so he could faster demonstrate his masterpiece to the world.

Everything else is a lie.

And I mean everything.

Of course, Elvis could prove me wrong by providing legitimate sources to back up his j'accuse's. But he won't 'cause he has none.

The end.

[Elvis 2008]

2) Putin does not uphold agreements, and has reneged each time.

Can you please reformulate your position and take that into account?

Yeah, the intelligence agencies lied their asses off about Russiagate, and Putin was telling the truth, so your whole narrative of Putin as dishonest and we are honest blows up in your face.

1) If Putin wants peace, he can withdraw from Ukraine at any time and there will be immediate peace.

That is not going to happen. What do you propose besides peace with Putin? 400,000 dead Ukrainians is not enough for you? You know the average soldier in Ukraine is pushing 45 years old? That people in Ukraine are opposing and protesting the drafting of men to fight in this war? That the wealthy in Ukraine left town before the war started? That guys on here have seen those in the Ukrainian government living it up at the Globe Club in Switzerland and Zelensky is buying up properties in Europe? That the Ukrainian economy has been going down at a rate of 8% a year?

This war was supposed to hurt Russia. Well, Russia is now the biggest economy in Europe overtaking Germany. Germany has gotten killed economically because they are paying through the nose for expensive nonRussian natural gas, and other nations have had to bear the burden of Ukrainian refugees.

In the mean time, Tucker Carlson shot this video of the Russian subway system and compared it to those in the West. https://twitter.com/i/status/1757901280830505037.

You Democrats wanted to inflict on Russia and Putin. Any evidence that what you are doing worked? Because it sure as hell does not look like it to me.

[VinDici]

Putin says he wants negotiated peace...

You keep smoothing over the most important factors:

1) If Putin wants peace, he can withdraw from Ukraine at any time and there will be immediate peace.

2) Putin does not uphold agreements, and has reneged each time.

Can you please reformulate your position and take that into account?

[Xpartan]

The whole idea of de-Nazifying a country with a Jewish president who won 73% of the vote is about ludicrous. Add the fact that Neo-Nazi soldiers only represent a relatively small number of a single battalion (Azov, 10 to 20%) and it's fully ludicrous.

Even Azov can't be seen as Neo-Nazis today after the brigade purged the Nazi sympathizers in 2016-2017. What personal views Azov soldiers are harboring nowadays, who knows, but that's true about pretty much anybody.

But Putin claims are awfully rich considering that FSB tried to control Azov back in a day and at one point managed to install an FSB agent as Azov's leader. The Russian influence didn't take, though, and Azov became the most successful military regimen in the Ukrainian army.

https://news.yahoo.com/azov-regiment...142500366.html

[Elvis 2008]

I scanned over your post to me and didn't see where you answered my question about the Russia-Ukraine Friendship Treaty of 1999, long before Trump and Covid were ever on the scene. Both parties signed on for this, and it confirmed existing borders. It was in place, both during the Russian incursions into The Donbas in 2008, as well as the time of the annexation of Crimea.

"One of the key obligations set by the Treaty was Article 2, which observed that the parties 'shall honour each other's territorial integrity and shall acknowledge the inviolability of the borders existing between them'. Article 3 further clarified that the parties 'shall structure their relations. On the principles of. Sovereign equality, territorial integrity, inviolability of borders'."

https://opiniojuris.org/2019/05/01/t...ate-%EF%BB%BF/

Paulie, there were all the fact checkers who disputed Putin's historical take on Ukraine. To me, it is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

I'm sincere. Hint: Russia of course has a spin on it. Who in this world is ever wrong? Wink They typically have justifications for their actions. Go to any prison and try to find a guilty person. Germany surely did with the invasions of both Czechoslovakia and Poland at the start of WW 2. They were the good guys so they claimed. Because all such actions have justifications behind them, no matter how spurious. But you should be familiar with these issues if you want to make the arguments you are making. You may have to step away from the current website you are sourcing. You might even have to go directly to Russian sources.

I completely agree with you. We have had disputes about this before. You have called this attack on Ukraine unprovoked, and I have told you that I saw with my own eyes Biden's military buildup and his history. I cannot recall any war Biden has not supported. But whether it was provoked or not, the issue at hand is the American taxpayer continuing to pay for this war.

One other question, if Putin is such a good guy, why do all his serious political opponents end up dead or in jail? It's usually the former.

I never said Putin was a good guy, but he was the one telling the truth on Russiagate. And we are in the same situation as we were then. I am not buying the good guy bad guy scenario with the USA intelligence agencies given their history.

But when you have the government agency response which is attacking Tucker Carlson and saying do not listen to him or Putin IMO you have lost the argument. This is the same tactic that you are accusing Putin of, censorship. And Democrats do not get the high ground on political opponents and jailing them given what is happening with Trump and not happening with Biden.

Still, what is the end game? Why do we care more about Ukraine's borders than our own? I look at weapons manufacturers just like vaccine manufacturers with Covid and everything is being done in their interests and IMO not the American public's. No one has made a compelling case as to why we care so much about Ukraine and are willing to send them so much money.

P.S. I did watch parts of the interview. Putin at points was extremely disrespectful to Tucker, mocking him at one point, for the latter was rejected in his bid to join the CIA. Carlson looked bewildered and stunned at the moment, and was clearly way out of his element.

Here we go again. Here is an interview with Tucker right after he spoke to Putin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzlt1VVBcg8.

Look at the boxes on the side and how many views there were of the interview in India? Look at how many people are in the audience where he is speaking. Attacking Carlson and not his opinions and ideas means you have lost.

And Xpartan just lost. Zelensky is his own man. Boris Johnson did not have the power to scuttle the negotiations. Issuing declarations with nothing to back them up means you lose. That is why there is such a fight on this issue. It is the same tactics we saw with Covid and Russiagate. How do you know Putin is going to invade the rest of Europe? Because we say so, and you are an idiot if you do not go along with us means you just lost.

And guys like Xpartan keep attacking me as if I am the one who holds the key. Let us leave American politics. Putin says he wants negotiated peace, and the official response is Tucker Carlson is a hack and Putin is lying. Do you think that works with the thinking Indian people who watched this interview? Because I sure do not. We look like a bunch of foolish war mongers.

[Paulie97]

In Russia, as well. In spades. And plenty of them are fighting in Ukraine.

Russian Neo-Nazis Participate in 'Denazifying' Ukraine.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...spiegel-a77762

Meet the Russian neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine.

https://www.codastory.com/episodes/m...g-for-ukraine/

Who Are The Neo-Nazis Fighting For Russia In Ukraine?

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-neo-.../31871760.html

Time to denazify Russia, I guess.

The whole idea of de-Nazifying a country with a Jewish president who won 73% of the vote is about ludicrous. Add the fact that Neo-Nazi soldiers only represent a relatively small number of a single battalion (Azov, 10 to 20%) and it's fully ludicrous.

[Paulie97]

Again, Boris Johnson didn't and couldn't have broken the so-called "peace talks" with Moscow. He didn't have the power, he didn't have the sway.

"Expressing concerns" is not the same as giving orders. Every sane person would've and probably did express concerns about negotiating with Putin. It's been proven times and again that Putin doesn't give a fuck about any agreements or treaties he signs.

Zelensky is his own man. The whole presumption that the Ukrainian government would've just taken an order from Boris Johnson (or anyone else for that matter) is beyond preposterous. It's crazy and idiotic.

Of course for authoritarians like yourself, countries don't matter. Only strongmen do. Well, the whole world predicted that Kyiv would fall in three days. Where are these "analysts" now? Ukraine has proved that they're perfectly capable of kicking Putin's ass, we just need to help them a little.

It's like saying Biden should have guaranteed that Ukraine would be perpetually excluded from NATO. He didn't remotely have that power, while any such exclusion violates the charter. Putin already knew what the response to his demand would be. The plan to rapidly take Kyiv and install a puppet was already in play.

[Paulie97]

I scanned over your post to me and didn't see where you answered my question about the Russia-Ukraine Friendship Treaty of 1999, long before Trump and Covid were ever on the scene. Both parties signed on for this, and it confirmed existing borders. It was in place, both during the Russian incursions into The Donbas in 2008, as well as the time of the annexation of Crimea.

"One of the key obligations set by the Treaty was Article 2, which observed that the parties 'shall honour each other's territorial integrity and shall acknowledge the inviolability of the borders existing between them'. Article 3 further clarified that the parties 'shall structure their relations. On the principles of. Sovereign equality, territorial integrity, inviolability of borders'."

https://opiniojuris.org/2019/05/01/t...ate-%EF%BB%BF/

I'm sincere. Hint: Russia of course has a spin on it. Who in this world is ever wrong? Wink They typically have justifications for their actions. Go to any prison and try to find a guilty person. Germany surely did with the invasions of both Czechoslovakia and Poland at the start of WW 2. They were the good guys so they claimed. Because all such actions have justifications behind them, no matter how spurious. But you should be familiar with these issues if you want to make the arguments you are making. You may have to step away from the current website you are sourcing. You might even have to go directly to Russian sources.

One other question, if Putin is such a good guy, why do all his serious political opponents end up dead or in jail? It's usually the former.

P.S. I did watch parts of the interview. Putin at points was extremely disrespectful to Tucker, mocking him at one point, for the latter was rejected in his bid to join the CIA. Carlson looked bewildered and stunned at the moment, and was clearly way out of his element. He delivers Putes a softball interview and for his trouble gets impaled. Carlson also lied when he said he was the first US journalist to go there during the hostilities. Two Americans, Evan Gershkovich, WSJ and Alsu Kurmasheva, Radio Free Europe have recently been detained in Russia, and the former is still there. CNN also claims to have repeatedly begged Putin for an interview. Of course you don't find them reliable, and I don't either at times, but it's tough to doubt them on that point. They never shy away from inviting controversial figures onto the shows.

[Xpartan]

Uh, let us quote your source.

From Boris Johnson: Mr Johnson asserted that, during a conversation with Mr Zelensky following the peace talks in Istanbul, he had "expressed concerns" about the nature of the potential agreement.

From Ukraine: The former prime minister's rebuttal came following statements made by David Arakhamiya, head of the Ukrainian delegation in talks with Russia. Mr Arakhamiya cited a previous visit by Mr Johnson to Kyiv as forming part of the decision not to negotiate with Moscow in 2022. Mr Johnson had allegedly said that Ukraine "shouldn't sign anything with them at all and let's just fight".

From Putin: Speaking of the proposed negotiations, Mr Putin continued: "We have never refused. And the fact that they obeyed the demand or persuasion of Mr Johnson, the former prime minister of Great Britain, seems ridiculous and very sad to me.

Uh, everyone involved said Johnson did exactly that.

What is sad is you, a supposedly grown man, reads the headlines without getting into the facts.

Again, Boris Johnson didn't and couldn't have broken the so-called "peace talks" with Moscow. He didn't have the power, he didn't have the sway.

"Expressing concerns" is not the same as giving orders. Every sane person would've and probably did express concerns about negotiating with Putin. It's been proven times and again that Putin doesn't give a fuck about any agreements or treaties he signs.

Zelensky is his own man. The whole presumption that the Ukrainian government would've just taken an order from Boris Johnson (or anyone else for that matter) is beyond preposterous. It's crazy and idiotic.

Of course for authoritarians like yourself, countries don't matter. Only strongmen do. Well, the whole world predicted that Kyiv would fall in three days. Where are these "analysts" now? Ukraine has proved that they're perfectly capable of kicking Putin's ass, we just need to help them a little.

[Elvis 2008]

Here is another one, especially for Elvis, who seems to believe every word that comes from the mouth of Putin. No, Johnson didn't kill a peace deal with Russia. There wasn't and couldn't have been any peace deal with Russia in the spring of 2022 and besides Johnson didn't have the power or a sway to have killed a peace deal even if there was one.

Uh, let us quote your source.

From Boris Johnson: Mr Johnson asserted that, during a conversation with Mr Zelensky following the peace talks in Istanbul, he had "expressed concerns" about the nature of the potential agreement.

From Ukraine: The former prime minister's rebuttal came following statements made by David Arakhamiya, head of the Ukrainian delegation in talks with Russia. Mr Arakhamiya cited a previous visit by Mr Johnson to Kyiv as forming part of the decision not to negotiate with Moscow in 2022. Mr Johnson had allegedly said that Ukraine "shouldn't sign anything with them at all and let's just fight".

From Putin: Speaking of the proposed negotiations, Mr Putin continued: "We have never refused. And the fact that they obeyed the demand or persuasion of Mr Johnson, the former prime minister of Great Britain, seems ridiculous and very sad to me.

No, Johnson didn't kill a peace deal with Russia. There wasn't and couldn't have been any peace deal with Russia in the spring of 2022 and besides Johnson didn't have the power or a sway to have killed a peace deal even if there was one.

Uh, everyone involved said Johnson did exactly that.

What is sad is you, a supposedly grown man, reads the headlines without getting into the facts.

The headline reads: Putin repeats 'nonsense' claim Boris Johnson scuppered efforts to end Ukraine invasion.

Did you even bother to read who made the claim that Putin was repeating? That would be the head of the Ukrainian delegation.

It's sad that a grown-up man would believe anything coming from Putin or Trump, the two most prolific liars of our time.

Putin was verifying facts already known, dummy, but you hate Putin so much if Putin said the moon is not made of green cheese, you would say, "It sure is."

I have been down this rabbit hole with you before. When Victoria Neuland, a POS warmongering necon, picked out Ukraine's leader and was asked about the EU's concern about that leader, she said, "Fuck the EU. " You challenged me on the fact. You did not look it up. You just bought it when I said I was making up that fact versus it really happening.

You are the most factually challenged and gullible guy on here. For the millionth time, if you care so damned much about Ukraine, why have you not volunteered to fight?

[Xpartan]

That's quite a weak standard there man. Yes they do, and in the US, the UK, Germany, and many other Euro countries.

In Russia, as well. In spades. And plenty of them are fighting in Ukraine.

Russian Neo-Nazis Participate in 'Denazifying' Ukraine.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...spiegel-a77762

Meet the Russian neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine.

https://www.codastory.com/episodes/m...g-for-ukraine/

Who Are The Neo-Nazis Fighting For Russia In Ukraine?

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-neo-.../31871760.html

Time to denazify Russia, I guess.

[Xpartan]

Were you trying to install imbedded links? If so they didn't take, and may not be possible on this site.

Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense'.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255302

Putin, in rambling interview, barely lets Tucker Carlson get a word in.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...view-released/#text=Carlson%20 said%20 he%20 felt%20 that,%E2%80%9 Cdenazification%E2%80%9 the%20 of%20 the%20 country.

Putin's Myths About Ukraine, Debunked.

https://time.com/6693504/vladimir-pu...aine-debunked/

Putin Used Tucker Carlson to Wipe the Kremlin's Floor.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ne-1234965053/

Here is another one, especially for Elvis, who seems to believe every word that comes from the mouth of Putin. No, Johnson didn't kill a peace deal with Russia. There wasn't and couldn't have been any peace deal with Russia in the spring of 2022 and besides Johnson didn't have the power or a sway to have killed a peace deal even if there was one.

Putin repeats nonsense claim Boris Johnson scuppered efforts to end Ukraine invasion

Vladimir Putin has repeated a claim that Boris Johnson scuppered negotiations for a peace settlement between Russia and Ukraine, which the former UK prime minister has previously labelled nonsense.

During a highly anticipated sit-down interview with former Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson, the Russian president said, via a translator, that a huge document had been prepared and approved by the head of the Ukrainian delegation, before Mr Johnson had stepped in and dissuaded Ukraines president Volodymyr Zelensky.

Putin said of Zelensky: He put his signature and then he himself said, We were ready to sign it and the war would have been over long ago. However, Prime Minister Johnson came to talk us out of it, and weve missed that chance.

In an interview with The Times in January, Mr Johnson strongly denied the claims, which have been previously aired by Moscow, describing them as total nonsense and Russian propaganda.

Mr Johnson asserted that, during a conversation with Mr Zelensky following the peace talks in Istanbul, he had expressed concerns about the nature of the potential agreement, but assured him of the UKs unwavering support for Ukraine.

He said: No peace proposals or peace agreement were possible in February or March 2022. Russia entered Ukraine solely for the sake of seizing territories, killing citizens and overthrowing a democratic government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2493341.html

It's sad that a grown-up man would believe anything coming from Putin or Trump, the two most prolific liars of our time.