Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Jmsuttr]

The last supper: pass a test on 'the fathers of Ukrainian democracy'.

There's a special circle of Hell that's being newly constructed to receive Little Vlad and his demon hordes. Can't happen soon enough.

[Questner]

The last supper: pass a test on 'the fathers of Ukrainian democracy'.

[Jmsuttr]

So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed.

1. Russia currently controls much less territory than they did in the immediate aftermath of their invasion.

2. Russia appears to be having difficulty replacing modern equipment used or destroyed in battle. The evidence for this is their use of refurbished older tank models and the dramatic decrease in their missile usage.

3. Russia currently has the explicit or implicit support, in the material sense, of China, Iran, and North Korea. Ukraine currently has the explicit or implicit support of the US, most of Europe, and other significant countries like Japan, Australia, Canada, etc.

These are the facts I listed in the post to which you replied. I welcome any substantive, fact-based rebuttals.

[Jmsuttr]

JM, you do not get out much. There is the American narrative being spun by the Biden administration: Putin is evil, victory is near, Russia is evil, Russia is incompetent, Ukraine is winning, this is a war for Democracy, and like in all wars, if you are not with us, you are against us.

And so then you have this leak from this 21 year old kid: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...documents-leak.

After enlisting in September 2019, Teixeira became a cyber transport systems specialist. Teixeira has been mobilized for federal duty. Teixeira had top secret clearance and sensitive compartmented access to other highly classified programs since 2021.

A document posted on the social media platform was accessible to Teixeira, and USA Government logs showed that Teixeira accessed the document in February 2023, approximately one day before a social media user placed it on the internet.

The Washington Post reported the documents were posted on a private Discord community or "server" named Thug Shaker Central. "If I had to give a gauge on it, it would be more or less just some nerds wanting to glance over some stuff and compare and contrast and kind of have a little joke about it," an unidentified Discord server member said "At the end of the day, I mean we're just trying to have a fun time. " Discord is a particular favorite among young gamers who use Discord servers to share gameplay clips or stream themselves.

So this kid is playing a video game and starts talking war strategy in his group and no doubt he is combatting the Biden narrative in Ukraine. He gets upset that there are so many falling for the narrative and says, "I will show you" and leaks the documents. He is in this small 20 to 30 person group so he thinks he can get away with it. Well, he is wrong. And the facts in the documents, among them there are USA special forces fighting Russia in Ukraine, are very upsetting and throw the whole Biden narrative into question.

The files he posted are taken down from the internet and the information is called misinformation and disinformation of course.

If you had your head in the sand like JM and John Clayton did with Covid, sure, you can blow this off. What does Covid have to do with anything?

For the rest of us who were sane, it has to do with the fact that 40,000 government officials were scanning social media sites and taking down anything that upset the government narrative on Covid including the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Among the most stupid and harmful narratives was withholding treatment from people with Covid who were not vaccinated.

Before the orcs were going to kill us all, it was the evil diseased anti-science, antivaxxers.

So when you start talking facts, we know we will hear all about how screwed up this kid is but the real question is: is the information he leaked true? And here is the funny thing about that. No one is denying American special forces are in Ukraine. That may be what is most disturbing, and we have been lied to before.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/bid...ions-rcna15190

Biden vows USA Will 'bring an end' to Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia invades Ukraine.

And amazingly, Nordstream 2 is blown up, an act of war, and the Biden administration uses the handy Democratic excuse, "The Russians did it. " like that makes any sense.

So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed. And just like with the vaccine, we were spoon fed that the vaccine was a miracle and safe and effective.

The narrative is the USA is in a proxy war with Russia, and somebody like you buys that bullshit. When to someone like me, I take Biden at his word and that he blew up Nordstream 2 and I have not seen anyone say we do not have special forces in Ukraine, so I take that as fact too.

So fuck the proxy war. Right now, the USA is in at war with Russia. Those are the facts as I see them.

Doubling-down on narrative doesn't make it any more true. The general narrative-monger MO is to focus on whatever tends to confirm their preferred version while dismissing or ignoring anything that doesn't.

Let's take the "Proxy War" narrative, for example. There's a singular, foundational fact that I have yet to see any "Proxy War" promulgator successfully address. Here it is:

Russian military forces crossed into Ukraine on Feb 24th, 2022. At 0530 on that date (Moscow time), Putin went on Russian national television to announce the start of a "Special Military Operation".

Question: When Putin made that announcement, was he acting on his own (independent agent) or was he being controlled by one or more others (non-independent agent)?

If you believe that Putin is an independent agent, then that is a fatal flaw in the "Proxy War" narrative. Since the actual start of the current spate of hostilities was ordered and announced by Putin (unless he was somebody's proxy) the more accurate description of the current conflict is that it's a war that began as a direct result of Putin's personal decisions.

Once the (non-proxy) war began, every non-combatant country was free to support whichever side they wanted. In that respect, it's just as accurate to label Russia as a proxy of Iran, or China, as it is to label Ukraine a proxy of the US (or other allies). Nothing that's happened since can change the fact that Putin launched a war of aggression of his own volition.

Switching topics to the intel leak, it's an interesting exercise to consider whether any (or all) of it was planted. I have no idea, but it would be a fascinating intel op to create a controlled release and see what shakes out. It certainly would be an intriguing way to send a message to countries like Egypt, Israel, and the UAE, wouldn't it? BTW, specifically about the Special Ops info, I think you might have bought into someone's embellishment (or come up with it on your own).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065

"According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent of special forces in Ukraine (50), followed by fellow Nato states Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1). The document does not say where the forces are located or what they are doing".

So, as a factual matter, there is no evidence or indication that any of these military assets are engaging in combat. In fact, these numbers are quite consistent with what an Embassy Defense Attache's office might have as a complement. Also, since France has more than the US, wouldn't it be more in line with your narrative to label this a French-proxy War? Or what about a Latvia-proxy war?

Finally, on the topic of Nordstream 2, there are certainly a number of usual suspects, and you've chosen to pick one (the US) while some have chosen to pick others. In fact, there are at least FOUR possible theories:

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...nord-stream-2/

AND, in the same meeting from which you drew your Biden quote, here's another nugget:

"Scholz, meanwhile, declined to take a firm stance on the fate of Nord Stream 2, telling reporters that Germany was "acting together" with its allies and promising "very, very harsh" steps against Russia if it invades Ukraine".

So, for anyone looking for an anti-German spin, this could certainly serve as fodder for Theory #5. People are free to swallow whichever theory fits their preferred narrative. As for me, I'm reserving judgment until more facts come to light.

And that's what your narrative-centric post fails to grasp. I specifically reject ANY and ALL narratives that aren't backed up by objective facts. Also, just because one narrative appears to agree with, or confirm, another narrative doesn't meet a fact-based standard of proof. Stacking complementary narratives together is nothing more than a circle-jerk.

And so I repeat, from my earlier post:

"Anyone who uncritically swallows either the pro-Russia or the pro-Ukraine narrative is a gullible idiot. The only things that matter are actual facts on the ground".

I can certainly understand why facts might trouble you, especially those inconvenient for your preferred narrative. But just because Elvis has left the building doesn't mean the rest of us need to follow suit.

[Jmsuttr]

The spirit of Orthodox Easter: This Sunday a group of Ukrainian POW return home.

(click on Cancel then Play): https://t.me/RVvoenkor/42822.

If Russia truly cared about the spirit of Easter, they'd pack up their shit and go back to their own country.

[Elvis 2008]

Anyone who uncritically swallows either the pro-Russia or the pro-Ukraine narrative is a gullible idiot. The only things that matter are actual facts on the ground. Using that as a metric, here are some relevant observations:

I could go on, but the above items make my point. Narratives are fueled in many ways (personal likes, dislikes, other emotional considerations, etc.), but actual facts are stubborn things. People who cling to their preferred narrative are often the same ones who believe they can predict outcomes. The stubborn facts, however, have confounded many such pseudo-experts. I fully expect that trend to continue.

P.S. One's past position on COVID, or any other issue, is completely irrelevant to the Ukraine discussion. A classic red herring fallacy, if ever there was one.

JM, you do not get out much. There is the American narrative being spun by the Biden administration: Putin is evil, victory is near, Russia is evil, Russia is incompetent, Ukraine is winning, this is a war for Democracy, and like in all wars, if you are not with us, you are against us.

And so then you have this leak from this 21 year old kid: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...documents-leak.

After enlisting in September 2019, Teixeira became a cyber transport systems specialist. Teixeira has been mobilized for federal duty. Teixeira had top secret clearance and sensitive compartmented access to other highly classified programs since 2021.

A document posted on the social media platform was accessible to Teixeira, and USA Government logs showed that Teixeira accessed the document in February 2023, approximately one day before a social media user placed it on the internet.

The Washington Post reported the documents were posted on a private Discord community or "server" named Thug Shaker Central. "If I had to give a gauge on it, it would be more or less just some nerds wanting to glance over some stuff and compare and contrast and kind of have a little joke about it," an unidentified Discord server member said "At the end of the day, I mean we're just trying to have a fun time. " Discord is a particular favorite among young gamers who use Discord servers to share gameplay clips or stream themselves.

So this kid is playing a video game and starts talking war strategy in his group and no doubt he is combatting the Biden narrative in Ukraine. He gets upset that there are so many falling for the narrative and says, "I will show you" and leaks the documents. He is in this small 20 to 30 person group so he thinks he can get away with it. Well, he is wrong. And the facts in the documents, among them there are USA special forces fighting Russia in Ukraine, are very upsetting and throw the whole Biden narrative into question.

The files he posted are taken down from the internet and the information is called misinformation and disinformation of course.

If you had your head in the sand like JM and John Clayton did with Covid, sure, you can blow this off. What does Covid have to do with anything?

For the rest of us who were sane, it has to do with the fact that 40,000 government officials were scanning social media sites and taking down anything that upset the government narrative on Covid including the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Among the most stupid and harmful narratives was withholding treatment from people with Covid who were not vaccinated.

Before the orcs were going to kill us all, it was the evil diseased anti-science, antivaxxers.

So when you start talking facts, we know we will hear all about how screwed up this kid is but the real question is: is the information he leaked true? And here is the funny thing about that. No one is denying American special forces are in Ukraine. That may be what is most disturbing, and we have been lied to before.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/bid...ions-rcna15190

Biden vows USA Will 'bring an end' to Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia invades Ukraine.

And amazingly, Nordstream 2 is blown up, an act of war, and the Biden administration uses the handy Democratic excuse, "The Russians did it. " like that makes any sense.

So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed. And just like with the vaccine, we were spoon fed that the vaccine was a miracle and safe and effective.

The narrative is the USA is in a proxy war with Russia, and somebody like you buys that bullshit. When to someone like me, I take Biden at his word and that he blew up Nordstream 2 and I have not seen anyone say we do not have special forces in Ukraine, so I take that as fact too.

So fuck the proxy war. Right now, the USA is in at war with Russia. Those are the facts as I see them.

[Questner]

The spirit of Orthodox Easter: This Sunday a group of Ukrainian POW return home.

(click on Cancel then Play): https://t.me/RVvoenkor/42822.

[Xpartan]

And, when he does, he'll get to experience "How terrible art thou" on a first-hand basis. For the sake of Ukrainians AND Russians, let's hope that happens soon.

Maybe he can pay one of his KGB-priests for some absolution? Unfortunately, when he arrives at the pearly gates, anything he shows will have been flagged as a pirated copy!

Well, there is only one hope for him.

Putin: What if he does exist?

Patriarch Cyrill: God forbid!

[Jmsuttr]

Yeah, it does not look like it.

I do not know, DF. The story is one so screwed up that it probably is something even the CIA could not come up with.

If the leaked files were misinformation and disinformation, why did he get arrested? The executive branch amazingly could not find out who leaked the abortion brief at SCOTUS but they had this guy in days. It is almost like the executive branch wanted the abortion leaker to go free. That person did not mess with their narrative.

What is true is the narrative is breaking down. Putin is Hitler but Hitler conquered most of Europe in the time Putin has not conquered Ukraine. Putin is insane except when it comes to nuclear war and then he is rational.

The Covid bullshit was a narrative from the same play book. Anyone against Fauci and his teams idiotic approach to Covid meant you wanted people dead with Covid. Of course, none of their brain dead treatments did much of anything except waste away trillions of dollars. Anyone against that fucker Fauci was anti-science and wanted people to die. Then we later learned that fucker Fauci funded the creation of Covid to begin with and edited a "scientific" paper that said anyone who said Covid came from a lab was engaging in conspiracy theory. So the so called expert who was calling all the shots was personally and probably financially benefitting from a crisis he caused.

And the same is true here. Biden provokes Putin into war and then gets billions to spend in any way he sees fit. I think he has a $100 billion slush fund for Ukraine and has only spent $30 billion of it. Like I said, I know for a fact Biden was spoiling for some kind of war. Putin just accommodated him. If anyone questions the spending on the war the same as how I questioned the spending on Covid, you get the predictable response. You a Putin bootlicker? You want to suck his dick?

Yeah, Ukraine has done better than expected. However, did you ever see anything in Russia that impressive? With me, I liked the art, the theater / ballet, the ice cream, and that was about it. Any impressive modern structure in Russia was built by someone other than the Russians. I just wonder how much of Ukraine doing this well in the war was Ukraine and how much of it was horrific Russian incompetence. I know how good the suppliers are on our end, and I am sure the Russian side pales in comparison.

As for predictions, that is easy. Thousands / millions will die for nothing. Trillions of dollars will be wasted. The war will end once there is no more money in it for the weapons makers, both sides will declare victory, and nothing fundamentally will have changed. Isn't that the way every war has gone since WW2/ Korea?

Meanwhile, there is this going on, https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/11/58pe...y-reveals.html.

And this is my Tucker Carlson source, "More than half, or 58%, of all Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck, according to the CNBC Your Money Financial Confidence Survey, conducted in partnership with Momentive. ".

Oh yeah, we really need to spend trillions more in Ukraine. With the amount of money we spent on weapons, we could have bought all the land in the fucking country by now. At least then we would have something to show for all this. At best we are going to get bullshit assurances that Putin has been stopped.

Some essential (core) issues:

1. Russia started the war and can stop it anytime. The 'provoked' BS has already been thoroughly debunked in this forum, so no need to go there again. Of course, those who have drunk the "Russia as victim" kool-aid continue to overlook the clear debunkment evidence.

2. There is every reason to believe, from statements by Russia and from Putin himself (re 'historic' Russian lands), that Russia will not stop with Ukraine.

3. Ukraine has correctly assessed the situation as an existential threat. Simply stated, if they lose they will cease to exist. As a consequence, they will continue to resist irrespective of whether they receive external support.

4. External actors offer or withhold support (to either side) according to their individual assessment of the threat and their own interests. As one example, those Western countries closest to the conflict (Poland, Baltics, Nordics, etc.), have generally adopted the Ukrainian (existential threat) view of things.

Everything else is tangential. That doesn't mean that some tangential items aren't important (such as the level of external support), it simply means that changes in tangential items won't change the essential items listed above.

Some examples of tangential (not a complete list) issues:

1. The intel leak, whether it was orchestrated or not, is clearly tangential. It affects none of the core items. It may have some effect on tactics or timing, but those are not core items.

2. Weapons makers profits have been a feature of probably every conflict in the history of man. Anyone using that as a metric in deciding whether or not a conflict is worth fighting is missing the point. Wars are fought over essential issues, not tangential ones.

3. The level of support received from external actors is dynamic, and will inevitably fluctuate. It's not static because any reduction in one area could be (fully or partially) offset by an increase in another. If, for example, the US reduced support for Ukraine, it's not unreasonable to believe Europe (esp those who feel most threatened) would ramp up support.

4. There will always be other spending priorities that allow for the "Why are we spending $$ on this war when we should be spending it on X?" argument. This is tangential because it doesn't touch on the core issues as to why the war is being fought. For Ukraine, cost is irrelevant because their survival is at stake. For others, they can adjust as they choose, dependent on their own interests, but that doesn't change the core issues.

5. Narratives, from either side, are quintessential examples of tangential issues. The only narrative that will truly matter is the one written after the fact, and based on the reality of what happened on the battlefield and in geopolitical arena.

In sum, those who focus on the tangential are missing the signal for the noise. And those who base 'predictions' on the tangential are compounding the error.

[Jmsuttr]

The message on Orthodox Easter: "Say unto God, How terrible art thou in thy works! Through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee. ".

And, when he does, he'll get to experience "How terrible art thou" on a first-hand basis. For the sake of Ukrainians AND Russians, let's hope that happens soon.

Maybe he can pay one of his KGB-priests for some absolution? Unfortunately, when he arrives at the pearly gates, anything he shows will have been flagged as a pirated copy!

[VinDici]

https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status...19027738353668

Russian State TV now shows advertising for Russian Women to marry Chinese Men. Promising them a better life.

Guess those Chinese lessons will be more and more essential.

The subservience and subordination or Russia to the CCP is going really well.

[VinDici]

The message on Orthodox Easter: More retarded shit

So no message of peace for Easter then?

[Questner]

Are you a Russian bot? Really, why do you exist?

The message on Orthodox Easter: "Say unto God, How terrible art thou in thy works! Through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee. ".

[Elvis 2008]

M.

You guys are dreaming that there will be a Spring Offensive from Ukraine, they are finished.

Yeah, it does not look like it.

I do believe that parts of the reports are true, but this guy was probably set-up by the CIA. Interesting how the media is suddenly talking about corruption in Ukraine government. Something is definitely up. The Ukraine military has done an amazing job and totally over achieved, but they are done, time negotiations, that should have happened, 13 months ago.

I do not know, DF. The story is one so screwed up that it probably is something even the CIA could not come up with.

If the leaked files were misinformation and disinformation, why did he get arrested? The executive branch amazingly could not find out who leaked the abortion brief at SCOTUS but they had this guy in days. It is almost like the executive branch wanted the abortion leaker to go free. That person did not mess with their narrative.

What is true is the narrative is breaking down. Putin is Hitler but Hitler conquered most of Europe in the time Putin has not conquered Ukraine. Putin is insane except when it comes to nuclear war and then he is rational.

The Covid bullshit was a narrative from the same play book. Anyone against Fauci and his teams idiotic approach to Covid meant you wanted people dead with Covid. Of course, none of their brain dead treatments did much of anything except waste away trillions of dollars. Anyone against that fucker Fauci was anti-science and wanted people to die. Then we later learned that fucker Fauci funded the creation of Covid to begin with and edited a "scientific" paper that said anyone who said Covid came from a lab was engaging in conspiracy theory. So the so called expert who was calling all the shots was personally and probably financially benefitting from a crisis he caused.

And the same is true here. Biden provokes Putin into war and then gets billions to spend in any way he sees fit. I think he has a $100 billion slush fund for Ukraine and has only spent $30 billion of it. Like I said, I know for a fact Biden was spoiling for some kind of war. Putin just accommodated him. If anyone questions the spending on the war the same as how I questioned the spending on Covid, you get the predictable response. You a Putin bootlicker? You want to suck his dick?

Yeah, Ukraine has done better than expected. However, did you ever see anything in Russia that impressive? With me, I liked the art, the theater / ballet, the ice cream, and that was about it. Any impressive modern structure in Russia was built by someone other than the Russians. I just wonder how much of Ukraine doing this well in the war was Ukraine and how much of it was horrific Russian incompetence. I know how good the suppliers are on our end, and I am sure the Russian side pales in comparison.

As for predictions, that is easy. Thousands / millions will die for nothing. Trillions of dollars will be wasted. The war will end once there is no more money in it for the weapons makers, both sides will declare victory, and nothing fundamentally will have changed. Isn't that the way every war has gone since WW2/ Korea?

Meanwhile, there is this going on, https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/11/58pe...y-reveals.html.

And this is my Tucker Carlson source, "More than half, or 58%, of all Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck, according to the CNBC Your Money Financial Confidence Survey, conducted in partnership with Momentive. ".

Oh yeah, we really need to spend trillions more in Ukraine. With the amount of money we spent on weapons, we could have bought all the land in the fucking country by now. At least then we would have something to show for all this. At best we are going to get bullshit assurances that Putin has been stopped.

[Xpartan]

Up to 82% of the wounded and sick military defense forces return to duty after treatment. According to the president of the National Academy of Medical Sciences, the mortality rate at the stage of evacuation from the battlefield has decreased to 1. 35%. The new Military Medical Doctrine of Ukraine follows the Israeli practice where all civilian hospitals become military hospitals at the same time.

https://global.espreso.tv/up-to-82-o...s-and-diseases

Severely wounded Russians, on the other hand, are as good as dead. If they can't get back on their own, the help will never come. We-don't-leave-our-own-behind, my ass.