Thread: Stupid Shit in Kyiv
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04-20-23 04:25 #1936
Posts: 1324In case of a counter-retreat by the AFU the Russian Army is planning on to deploy a new Electronic Warfare system that jams all Russian language expletives used by the enemy. Without the expletives the personnel stays in disarray, incapacitated and unable to operate.
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04-19-23 20:07 #1935
Posts: 516Agree, evidence in the narrative sense, not the criminal.
Originally Posted by Xpartan [View Original Post]
And facts like these might make a difference in the court of public opinion, especially in Europe. At a minimum it doesn't allow anti-West propaganda to go unchallenged. Anything that helps keep public support for Ukraine on a firm footing will also help keep European politicians in that same camp.
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04-19-23 08:18 #1934
Posts: 324Snigger
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]Last edited by VinDici; 04-19-23 at 08:19. Reason: grammar
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04-19-23 07:27 #1933
Posts: 516Congrats on the 1st anniv of Russia becoming a part of the Chinese Empire!
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSq4qO-QbJo
There is a rumor that by May 5, 2024 everything is going to be over and Putin will be presented as the official jester at the International Circus Festival of Beijing.
ROFLMAO! Comrade Xi must be licking his chops (sticks)!
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04-19-23 07:13 #1932
Posts: 516Nature abhors a vacuum
Originally Posted by Paulie97 [View Original Post]
There are a few reasons why I take the time to respond: first, it's amusing to puncture their pseudo-logic and propaganda; second, it allows me to sharpen my argument for use with people with whom I interact IRL; third, it's possible that some article I find, fact I highlight, or argumentation point I make, might prove informative or useful to other forum members.
Besides, making fun of Kremlin fanboyz is like shooting fish in a barrel!
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04-19-23 05:30 #1931
Posts: 1968Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
Not that it matters anyway. They began reducing the flow long before the blasts. By the time of the explosions, the delivery had been halted for weeks.
Evidence or no evidence, Gasprom (Russia) will pay up.
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04-19-23 03:44 #1930
Posts: 1324Congratulations on the 240th anniversary of Crimea becoming part of Russian Empire. There is a rumor that by May 5, 2024 everything is going to be over and Cirque de Soleil will present the following piece at the International Circus Festival of Monte-Carlo:
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04-18-23 22:20 #1929
Posts: 516Latest wrinkle in the Nord Stream 2 story
1st link: Article translated via Google Translate.
2nd link: Original article (in German).
https://www-t--online-de.translate.g...x_tr_hist=true
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/...en-tatort.html
"The Danish military photographed Russian ships at the Nord Stream crime scene four days before the explosions. The pictures should remain secret.
Denmark confirms t-online research into the Nord Stream attack: There are 112 photos of Russian ships at the scene of the crime. They were made by the Danish Navy four days before the explosions. This emerges from a report in the Danish daily newspaper "Information". The Danish Ministry of Defense confirmed the existence of the images, but wants to keep them secret to protect intelligence work".
So, is this "smoking gun" definitive evidence? Absolutely not! But it is the result of research, by a German news organization, into the movement of Russian ships based in Kaliningrad. They then followed up with a request to the Danish government (I'm assuming the equivalent of a FOIA request), and received confirmation of their findings. Read the article for more details, and to form your own impressions, but that's what I see as the gist of it.
Whatever the true story turns out to be (if it's ever fully known), there's no doubt that this kind of investigative reporting is head-and-shoulders above Hersh's use of a single (completely unverifiable) anonymous source, posted solely on his personal blog. Furthermore, it's noteworthy that this evidence is presented in stand-alone form, without a specific narrative being pushed.
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04-18-23 19:01 #1928
Posts: 1968Lunatics United
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
Other than that -- what's your narrative? That Putin is good, Russia is good, Russia is competent, and Ukraine is losing?
Wait. You do believe that Ukraine is losing, don't you? Even though it's liberated 63% of the territory grabbed by RuZZia after February 24.
Not surprisingly, this narrative would be completely in line with that of your lord and savior Donald Trump.
Why are all right wingers so infatuated with Putin? I wish someone could explain.
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04-18-23 18:57 #1927
Posts: 1680Jmsuttr
You essentially are responding to the same old bullet points that portray Putin as a victim. It's Little Vlad's selfsame angle as it excuses his aggression. The proxy angle also denies Ukraine's agency in their desire to keep and fight for their land. It denies the agencies of many Eastern Euro countries that wanted to join the EU and NATO. It's thus all about the big bad mean boogie man Biden and the USA and Little Vlad in Trumpian fashion is the poor little victim. And the views of the isolationist right are one and the same as Russian propaganda, thus the lovefest. And of course we've been over this all many many times over the last 14 months. I'll said it again, Ronnie Reagan is turning in his grave.
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04-18-23 10:37 #1926
Posts: 324How can someone who lives in a kleptocracy / dictatorship make value judgements?
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
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04-18-23 06:40 #1925
Posts: 516Putin and his KGB pedo-priests are blasphemy personified.
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
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04-18-23 04:44 #1924
Posts: 1324The last supper: pass a test on 'the fathers of Ukrainian democracy'.
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04-17-23 21:07 #1923
Posts: 516Which specific facts would you like to challenge or refute?
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
2. Russia appears to be having difficulty replacing modern equipment used or destroyed in battle. The evidence for this is their use of refurbished older tank models and the dramatic decrease in their missile usage.
3. Russia currently has the explicit or implicit support, in the material sense, of China, Iran, and North Korea. Ukraine currently has the explicit or implicit support of the US, most of Europe, and other significant countries like Japan, Australia, Canada, etc.
These are the facts I listed in the post to which you replied. I welcome any substantive, fact-based rebuttals.
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04-17-23 20:56 #1922
Posts: 516My point was that ALL narrative is suspect. Yet your reply is to spew more narrative.
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
Let's take the "Proxy War" narrative, for example. There's a singular, foundational fact that I have yet to see any "Proxy War" promulgator successfully address. Here it is:
Russian military forces crossed into Ukraine on Feb 24th, 2022. At 0530 on that date (Moscow time), Putin went on Russian national television to announce the start of a "Special Military Operation".
Question: When Putin made that announcement, was he acting on his own (independent agent) or was he being controlled by one or more others (non-independent agent)?
If you believe that Putin is an independent agent, then that is a fatal flaw in the "Proxy War" narrative. Since the actual start of the current spate of hostilities was ordered and announced by Putin (unless he was somebody's proxy) the more accurate description of the current conflict is that it's a war that began as a direct result of Putin's personal decisions.
Once the (non-proxy) war began, every non-combatant country was free to support whichever side they wanted. In that respect, it's just as accurate to label Russia as a proxy of Iran, or China, as it is to label Ukraine a proxy of the US (or other allies). Nothing that's happened since can change the fact that Putin launched a war of aggression of his own volition.
Switching topics to the intel leak, it's an interesting exercise to consider whether any (or all) of it was planted. I have no idea, but it would be a fascinating intel op to create a controlled release and see what shakes out. It certainly would be an intriguing way to send a message to countries like Egypt, Israel, and the UAE, wouldn't it? BTW, specifically about the Special Ops info, I think you might have bought into someone's embellishment (or come up with it on your own).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065
"According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent of special forces in Ukraine (50), followed by fellow Nato states Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1). The document does not say where the forces are located or what they are doing".
So, as a factual matter, there is no evidence or indication that any of these military assets are engaging in combat. In fact, these numbers are quite consistent with what an Embassy Defense Attache's office might have as a complement. Also, since France has more than the US, wouldn't it be more in line with your narrative to label this a French-proxy War? Or what about a Latvia-proxy war?
Finally, on the topic of Nordstream 2, there are certainly a number of usual suspects, and you've chosen to pick one (the US) while some have chosen to pick others. In fact, there are at least FOUR possible theories:
https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...nord-stream-2/
AND, in the same meeting from which you drew your Biden quote, here's another nugget:
"Scholz, meanwhile, declined to take a firm stance on the fate of Nord Stream 2, telling reporters that Germany was "acting together" with its allies and promising "very, very harsh" steps against Russia if it invades Ukraine".
So, for anyone looking for an anti-German spin, this could certainly serve as fodder for Theory #5. People are free to swallow whichever theory fits their preferred narrative. As for me, I'm reserving judgment until more facts come to light.
And that's what your narrative-centric post fails to grasp. I specifically reject ANY and ALL narratives that aren't backed up by objective facts. Also, just because one narrative appears to agree with, or confirm, another narrative doesn't meet a fact-based standard of proof. Stacking complementary narratives together is nothing more than a circle-jerk.
And so I repeat, from my earlier post:
"Anyone who uncritically swallows either the pro-Russia or the pro-Ukraine narrative is a gullible idiot. The only things that matter are actual facts on the ground".
I can certainly understand why facts might trouble you, especially those inconvenient for your preferred narrative. But just because Elvis has left the building doesn't mean the rest of us need to follow suit.