Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Questner]

At Elvis 2008: I was under impression you were capable of exercising a better judgement and not listen to talking head idiots like zeihan.

[Golfinho]

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.

Ziolensky is closing down the Orthodox Church, actually saying it "has no place in the Ukrainian soul"!

So, No one's "winning"?

[Xpartan]

The solution is already in progress.

Killing the Russians that are on the Ukrain land and then the rest can Run home.

If a bully came to my home, he would either be killed or captured, I would not suggest he just took little bit of my things and then went away.

Oh well, you're forgetting that Ukraine isn't Drama's home. Nothing is easier than giving away the lands that don't belong to you.

The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.

At first, I was pretty sure we're dealing with yet another Kremlyn bot based on the same regurgitating fascist propaganda P'utin's puke we've become so familiar with in the recent months on this forum. But no, you seem to be a legit monger, which just confirms that there are no geographical constrains for "useful idiots. " This, by the way, is not an insult, but rather a technical KGB / FSB term that defines people like you. Quite a precise definition, I'd say.

[Elvis 2008]

Man I can't believe some people buy into this horseshit. Russia will win this war, write this down.

This war is a crime against humanity, and it is a failure of both sides and believe me, both Russia and Ukraine will be far worse after this war.

The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.

You are 100% right, but when I listened to this video this morning, I was absolutely disgusted with the conduct of the Russians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DyC0_K1xI.

So yeah, Putin has blood on his hands, and he and these Russian pricks are war criminals, but no one better dare tell me that the hands of Boris Johnson, Biden, and Obama are clean. It takes two to tango, and the West is not going to feed me this bullshit about how they were innocent in this war.

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.

[WyattEarp]

Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression, similarly to supporting Taiwan against China's aggressive stance, is more a matter of not wanting our geopolitical adversaries to increase their reach and power. And, while I don't see this as a Republican vs Democrat issue, what I'd say to Tucker and other conservatives is that they should remember the words of their icon, Ronald Reagan, who called the Soviet Union an evil empire. I would assert that today's Russia still has those imperialist urges, and Putin has personally said as much. Ukraine aside, Russia has shown a belligerence that threatens Europe. The fact that Finland and Sweden are turning away from years of neutrality speaks volumes.
.......................................

But, getting back to my point about the simplicity of the situation, Ukraine is acting in self defense against Russian aggression. All the theories about how we got here don't change the stark realities. Ukraine can't stop as they see this (rightly, IMO) as an existential battle. Countries can choose to support either side, in greater or lesser degree, but that doesn't change the heart of the matter, which centers on Ukraine, not anyone else.

The first point is absolutely correct. This isn't just about Russia's military excursion in the Ukraine. If Russian aggression was rewarded, it would send a dangerous message to Putin and even Xi Jinping.

As far as the point that this is an existential battle for the Ukraine, I generally agree. However if the war grinds on through next year, the practical reality is that there might need to be a negotiated resolution which isn't exactly the settlement Ukrainians want. We will understand a lot if there is indeed another attempt at a winter offensive by the Russians. Even if we presume the Ukraine will push back another offensive, we're still left with a irrational Russia. The Ukraine is fighting a destructive war that relies too much on a much larger enemy capitulating and possibly deposing its leader. Perhaps the Russian army is truly running out of resources and support of the Russian people.

Would I like this to end like Czar Nicholas' reign after entering World War I? Hell yeah. Is it worth a long, grinding war? Not sure.

[Blood Red]

Fully agree, Russia should have settled with Ukraine. They should have removed all their soldiers and occupying forces, returned Crimea, returned the Ukrainian children they have kidnapped, sent the war criminals for trial.
.

The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.

[Blood Red]

The infra is in ruins because the dirty orcs are targeting it, in direct violation of the Geneva convention, since these are not military targets and affect civilians primarily.

The energy infrastructure is a legitimate military target. Why do you think America bombed Serbia's and Iraq's energy infrastructure?

Russia WILL lose this war and the way it is going, it seems more and more likely that the actual Federation will break up. What an own goal that will be.

Man I can't believe some people buy into this horseshit. Russia will win this war, write this down.

UA has been clear with their preconditions, RU should accept them, get the fuck out, and deal with the domestic mess they themselves created.

You live in a fairytale world.

[Hestendk]

Better idea, let's find a solution and end this mess.

The solution is already in progress.

Killing the Russians that are on the Ukrain land and then the rest can Run home.

If a bully came to my home, he would either be killed or captured, I would not suggest he just took little bit of my things and then went away.

[DramaFree11]

You must come up with a new mantra, it's about time.

Better idea, let's find a solution and end this mess.

[Xpartan]

Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago.

You must come up with a new mantra, it's about time.

[VinDici]

Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago.

Fully agree, Russia should have settled with Ukraine. They should have removed all their soldiers and occupying forces, returned Crimea, returned the Ukrainian children they have kidnapped, sent the war criminals for trial.

Once Ukraine have crushed the Russian occupiers and war criminals, it will be a huge win for them, and the imperialists will need to think long and hard before they try to invade and kill on Ukraine's territory again.

Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

As long as the imperialists are in charge Russia is a threat. When they stop lying to the UN, G20 etc. And begin telling the truth to their own people, there is a chance for reformation. Until then it is a huge threat to world stability and needs to be treated as such.

[Hestendk]

Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

Yes, Pres. Z, Biden and Europe are all partially to blame for this.

Finally, Putin is the aggressor, but nobody is winning, just senseless killings. Ukraine is screwed either way, so they mights well finish off Russia military, hopefully they will not get nuked in the process. 2 corrupt countries, fighting over joining an even bigger corrupt organization, NATO.

When your country is destroyed, and a majority of the country is long gone, this is not a win!

So you again want that Ukraine should give up land?

Your wrong in most of the things you write about Ukraine, I wonder if you even ever been here?

[WyattEarp]

Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

Do you think this was the Russian view a year ago? I think the Russian leaders had perceived themselves as a global threat to be reckoned with.

Perhaps the sharp reality of what their military prowess has become is a good thing for global stability.

[Jmsuttr]

My God, how many times are we going to go through this crap? Didn't we win in Iraq? Get Qaddafi killed in Libya? You will have to remind me if things got better in those countries because I do not see that they did. The mighty Soviet army was defeated in Afghanistan once before and that left us the Taliban and Al Queda. How much good did that war really do the USA in the long run?

If you are a Dem, you will no doubt condemn Fox News and Tucker Carlson for giving Glenn Greenwald a microphone but Greenwald is in his own words a liberal Democrat, and this is what he says about this war.

I think in general, Americans should be very skeptical when the government says 'We're going to fight wars on the other side of the world and spend tens of billions of dollars in military aid to spread democracy. ' The US government doesn't actually care about spreading democracy. Many of its closest allies in the world have always been some of the world's most despotic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. All the US government cares about is whether these regimes serve US interests. . If you want to believe the fairy tale that the US government goes to war to spread democracy, then Ukraine is not the place for you. You mentioned the argument that 'Zelensky is in war, he has to curb liberty', but go back to 2021, a year before Russia invaded and you'll find articles where he shut down opposition television stations and shut down opposition political parties (which is) the hallmark of what every tyrant or despot does. And that was true even before Russia invaded.

If the US government was honest. They would get rid of this script that we have to go and defend democracy. That is a fairy tale that tries to get Americans to feel better about the fact that we are involved in many, many countries all over the world. That is not the real reason. The only reason to do it is for 'vital US interests'. The line in Washington for decades was the US has no vital interests in Ukraine. That was Obama's view, that was the bipartisan view. Why did that change? The only reason is because we saw an opportunity to trap Russia inside Ukraine all based on the view that Russia is our enemy (which is) something only Democrats should believe because they think Russia is to blame for the 2016 election and Hillary's defeat. But why would Republicans want confrontation with Russia? What American benefits from that except arms manufacturers?

If you think Russia is a grave enemy of the United States, then it makes sense to try to lure them into a war that they can't win, like we got lured into Afghanistan for 20 years or like we lured the Soviet Union into Afghanistan back in the '70's because it does deplete your enemy. The question is: Why should Russia be seen as our enemy? Both Obama and Trump said there's no reason to see Russia that way. It has one-fifteenth the size of our military budget. It's not threatening American borders. Why are we so obsessed with spending tens of billions of dollars to weaken Russia which we could be using here at home to benefit the lives of American citizens when Russia is not doing anything to the United States unless you are a crazy 'resistance' person who believes they're the reason Donald Trump won. But if you don't believe that, what is the rational for this? There is none.

Yes, anyone who dares asks why we are spending money to buy arms for Ukraine versus caring for our own back home has to be a Putin puppet? The notion that this is a war to prevent democracy is a joke. It is dictator on dictator.

But perhaps the funniest thing I have read about the war was on this site, a bunch of Ukrainians hitting a FKK and spending money like drunken sailors. I guess anyone questioning Ukrainians doing that is a Putin puppet as well.

Let's take the 2nd point first, since it's the easiest. With respect to the 'curb liberty' quote, I don't believe I've ever made that statement. So I'm guessing you're mistaking me for someone else, or are otherwise confused. If you have a link to the post you're referencing, please be good enough to share.

As to the other point, everything that might have been true about pre-Feb 24th Ukraine, pre-Feb 24th Russia, or the pre-Feb 24th world in general, has very little relevance as those prior realities and relationships have been overtaken by events.

Whatever Rube Goldberg machinations anyone tries to concoct, Putin invaded Ukraine (seizing territory and killing Ukrainian citizens), not the other way around. Russia, objectively speaking, was not under threat. Neither Ukraine, NATO, the US, or countries like Poland and the Baltics posed any kind of threat to even an inch of Russian territory. Nobody held a gun to Putin's head and it's ludicrous to believe he's so simple-minded as to be easily duped or lured. Putin's actions are his own responsibility, no one else's.

Therefore the simple fact, which no amount of obfuscation can alter, is that Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is acting in self defense. And, even for those who don't feel Ukraine or Zelensky are the "good guys," the right of self defense is universal. Since Ukraine considers this a matter of survival, they'll continue fighting even without the support of the US and Europe. This isn't a war of choice for them.

The matter of US support, and that of other countries, is a separate thing. Every country gets to decide what they feel is in their own interests. Russia has it's supporters and so does Ukraine. If you don't agree that supporting Ukraine is in America's interests, that's perfectly fine. But thankfully (IMO) that point of view is not prevailing.

Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression, similarly to supporting Taiwan against China's aggressive stance, is more a matter of not wanting our geopolitical adversaries to increase their reach and power. And, while I don't see this as a Republican vs Democrat issue, what I'd say to Tucker and other conservatives is that they should remember the words of their icon, Ronald Reagan, who called the Soviet Union an evil empire. I would assert that today's Russia still has those imperialist urges, and Putin has personally said as much. Ukraine aside, Russia has shown a belligerence that threatens Europe. The fact that Finland and Sweden are turning away from years of neutrality speaks volumes.

Oh, and about the perennial argument that goes: Why are we spending money over there when there are so many needs here? That argument is as old as time and can be applied to anything that one disagrees with. For example, why does the US government give tax deductions to 'well off' individuals when so many children live in poverty and are hungry? That argument could then be used to jack your tax rates to incredibly confiscatory levels. There's no end to the number of variations one can make of that argument, but it's lazy logic.

The argument for or against something needs to be decided on the merits of the issue itself. Every country and individual has competing priorities to deal with. But the fact remains that Ukraine won't stop fighting, even if we pull our support, because that's not an option for them. Withholding support won't end anything, unless you consider a Russian victory and crushing of Ukraine as an acceptable end. If that happened, Eastern Europe would be left in a state of chaos. And, IMO, the likelihood of a full Russia-NATO conflict would exponentially increase. So, while opposing support doesn't necessarily make one a Putin puppet, endorsing support doesn't mean you have to be a Zelensky fan.

But, getting back to my point about the simplicity of the situation, Ukraine is acting in self defense against Russian aggression. All the theories about how we got here don't change the stark realities. Ukraine can't stop as they see this (rightly, IMO) as an existential battle. Countries can choose to support either side, in greater or lesser degree, but that doesn't change the heart of the matter, which centers on Ukraine, not anyone else.

[DramaFree11]

Sigh, how many indeed. I too would like to know the answer to this question.

Same old Elvis: all over the place, completely incapable of focusing on the message, every sentence starts a new topic only to never finish anything, long-winded, illogical, boring blah blah blah at its finest.

Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are already dead -- men, women and children -- because a mad tyrant decided to grow his empire by starting a full-scale war of choice in Europe. In 21st fucking century.

But no, for Elvis everything is realfuckingpolitik, and America is always a villain.

Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

Yes, Pres. Z, Biden and Europe are all partially to blame for this.

Finally, Putin is the aggressor, but nobody is winning, just senseless killings. Ukraine is screwed either way, so they mights well finish off Russia military, hopefully they will not get nuked in the process. 2 corrupt countries, fighting over joining an even bigger corrupt organization, NATO.

When your country is destroyed, and a majority of the country is long gone, this is not a win!