Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Tiny 12]

Two of my replies to you have been lost somewhere in the forum abyss, and I'm not feeling like wasting another 20 minutes replicating them. But here are the reasons why you're wrong on almost all counts.

1. Ukraine would be crazy to trust Russia about anything. I don't expect you to agree with me. I actually understand why you wouldn't -- it really boggles the mind to grasp Russia's historic disregard for any treaties and agreements it deems "unfair" and "inconvenient". Hint: it didn't start with Putin or Stalin or even Lenin. That's how Russia has rolled for centuries.

2. Ending like Korea is completely unrealistic. That ceasefire is based upon the might of the United States. There is no way in hell a similar arrangement is even remotely possible in Ukraine.

4. Are these people fanatics who are prepared to launch the nuclear apocalypses (that will end Russia too)? No, these people are not fanatics. They're corrupt, wealthier than god, swindlers; they love their yachts, jets and mansions; and they have no desire to commit a murder-suicide of the world. That's not even mentioning their families and their hoars who're all living here, in the West. Who exactly are they going to bomb? I'm more scared of a drunken accident or misunderstanding in this high-pitched environment.

5. Russia is a giant with feet of clay. Its war effort has already cannibalized the economy, and all Putin's posturing and saber-rattling is just smoke and mirrors. Which are the only two products Russia truly excels in.

Do a search on username Xpartan for Tiny12 and you'll find them all. We were arguing about this 7 months ago, before Paulie ran me off, and neither Ukraine nor Russia had gained any territory in the 6 months prior to that. The battle lines are still stuck where they were over a year ago. And maybe a couple of hundred thousand more people have been killed or maimed.

You gentlemen perennially believe Ukraine is on the cusp of a victory. Prigozhin is going to overthrow Putin. Ukraine's counteroffensive is pushing out the Russians. The Ukrainians will kick ass with the F16's. Russia's economy is about to fall apart. Well it ain't happening. The two sides will just keep on slugging it out, killing each other and making life a lot more difficult for the Ukrainians.

If you believe the Russians are rational, not fanatics, why wouldn't they be content to sit on Crimea and the area they currently occupy in Donbas after a ceasefire? The invasion of Ukraine is Russia's biggest military misadventure in over 100 years, Afghanistan included. The Ukrainians have shown they have the will and the ability to resist, and Putin apparently is looking for a face saving way out. Europe and the USA should encourage the Ukrainians to put an end to this, instead of contributing to their fantasy that they can regain all territory lost since 2014. The majority of people in the area occupied by Russia would prefer to be affiliated with Russia instead of Ukraine anyway.

[Blood Red]

I guess the imminent arrival of F-16's prompted this influx of Z propaganda.

Just out of interest how are the planes from the invading army doing now that the new Ukrainian air defense has been deployed?

I can't believe people are this gullible. The F16's will make no difference whatsoever, just like they Leopards didn't, just like the storm shadows didn't, just like the ATACMS didn't. I could go on and on. The F16's when they arrive will be quickly shot down and they will burn.

[Blood Red]

In my humble opinion I think that is the viable option at this juncture. The only way Ukraine can ensure its security is to commit to no EU and no NATO membership and remove the current government. That is just the Red pill they need to take. When you live next to a superpower it is a hard reality that you have to succumb to the wishes of your bigger Brother. Look at Cuba, look at Mexico. Do you think Mexico will survive a day if it becomes a Russian Satellite state with Nukes planted in its territory? No.

This is a brilliant post and spot on. I am shocked that people do not understand this very simple thing. Russia, whether you like it or not, is a great power. Great powers have their red lines. Ukraine joining NATO was Russia's red line and they acted. I'm not justifying it. But look at what the American's did when the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba. What would the Americans do if China placed missiles in Mexico. Looking back at it, was neutrality so bad for Ukraine? They will never ever join NATO. And look at Ukraine now. A destroyed nation that will forever be a dysfunctional rump state thanks to NATO and the warmongers, may the rot in hell.

[Xpartan]

I said "insure", not "ensure. " That was poor word choice on my part. I should have written something like "provides reasonable security to Ukraine.

The best ending would be like what Zenduka suggests. Ukraine ends up like Switzerland or Austria, peaceful and prosperous. But as Rina said, that ship has most likely sailed. Absent a change in Russian leadership, Ukraine would indeed have to swallow Zenduka's Red Pill, and that's very unlikely.

An ending like Korea is more likely, only without the presence of NATO troops in Ukraine -- both countries armed to the teeth, but not killing each others young men (and old men and women and children) any longer. This is the best realistic solution. The sooner there's a ceasefire the better -- take my challenge with the interactive map in post #2387 -- neither side has made any progress in over a year..

Two of my replies to you have been lost somewhere in the forum abyss, and I'm not feeling like wasting another 20 minutes replicating them. But here are the reasons why you're wrong on almost all counts.

1. Ukraine would be crazy to trust Russia about anything. I don't expect you to agree with me. I actually understand why you wouldn't -- it really boggles the mind to grasp Russia's historic disregard for any treaties and agreements it deems "unfair" and "inconvenient". Hint: it didn't start with Putin or Stalin or even Lenin. That's how Russia has rolled for centuries.

2. Ending like Korea is completely unrealistic. That ceasefire is based upon the might of the United States. There is no way in hell a similar arrangement is even remotely possible in Ukraine.

4. Are these people fanatics who are prepared to launch the nuclear apocalypses (that will end Russia too)? No, these people are not fanatics. They're corrupt, wealthier than god, swindlers; they love their yachts, jets and mansions; and they have no desire to commit a murder-suicide of the world. That's not even mentioning their families and their hoars who're all living here, in the West. Who exactly are they going to bomb? I'm more scared of a drunken accident or misunderstanding in this high-pitched environment.

5. Russia is a giant with feet of clay. Its war effort has already cannibalized the economy, and all Putin's posturing and saber-rattling is just smoke and mirrors. Which are the only two products Russia truly excels in.

[Tiny 12]

How would a ceasefire ensure the security of Ukraine?

I said "insure", not "ensure. " That was poor word choice on my part. I should have written something like "provides reasonable security to Ukraine.

The best ending would be like what Zenduka suggests. Ukraine ends up like Switzerland or Austria, peaceful and prosperous. But as Rina said, that ship has most likely sailed. Absent a change in Russian leadership, Ukraine would indeed have to swallow Zenduka's Red Pill, and that's very unlikely.

An ending like Korea is more likely, only without the presence of NATO troops in Ukraine -- both countries armed to the teeth, but not killing each others young men (and old men and women and children) any longer. This is the best realistic solution. The sooner there's a ceasefire the better -- take my challenge with the interactive map in post #2387 -- neither side has made any progress in over a year.

There's going to have to be a radical change in political will in Russia or the West for either side to win. And that change is more likely to come from the west, by reducing aid to Ukraine. As to Russia, yes, a change of leadership there could result in a Ukrainian victory. But on the other hand, Russia has 6,000 nukes and can end this anytime it wants.

[Xpartan]

I guess the imminent arrival of F-16's prompted this influx of Z propaganda.

Just out of interest how are the planes from the invading army doing now that the new Ukrainian air defense has been deployed?

From what I've gathered, they've lost 3 today. At least one, though, was downed by a friendly.

[VinDici]

I guess the imminent arrival of F-16's prompted this influx of Z propaganda.

Just out of interest how are the planes from the invading army doing now that the new Ukrainian air defense has been deployed?

[Riina]

Theres got to be a way to stop the killing and insure the security of Ukraine.

There was a way, but that ship sailed.

[Questner]

https://tass.com/politics/1724847

Russia's Chief of General Staff reports on Ukrainian failure, Russian rearmament.

According to the report, this year, the Russian military focused on repelling the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which planned to deprive Russia of the land corridor to Crimea.

MOSCOW, December 21. / TASS /. The Russian forces in the zone of the special military operation are engaged in active defense and constantly expand the zones of control in all directions, Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov told a briefing for foreign military attaches.

Kiev has failed the much-hyped counteroffensive despite a huge western support, he added.

Standoff with US, NATO:

The hegemony of the United States and its allies is going to the past, but Washington wants to keep the "western-centric world order" at any price. NATO annually holds close to 40 exercises at Russian borders and all of them focus on the fight against Russia.

"Accelerated integration of Sweden and Finland into the alliance, the growing presence of NATO troops in Eastern Europe, Baltic and Black Sea regions, as well as the Arctic negatively affect the situation in Europe with prospects of increased confrontation. ".

Western support to Kiev:

The developments in Ukraine are a hybrid proxy war of the United States and its allies against the Russian Federation. Since February 2022, Kiev has received over 5. 2 thousand tanks and armored vehicles, close to 1. 5 thousand artillery guns and multiple launch rocket systems, 1. 3 thousand antiaircraft missile complexes, over 23 thousand antitank missile complexes, over a hundred airplanes and helicopters, and 23 thousand drones.

Close to 100,000 Ukrainian military were trained in the West. Besides, Ukraine received over 200 long-range cruise missiles.

Failed counteroffensive:

This year, the Russian military focused on repelling the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which planned to deprive Russia of the land corridor to Crimea.

"By early June, the enemy accumulated in the Zaporozhye direction an offensive force numbering up to 50 battalions, over 230 tanks and over a thousand armored vehicles. A half of them were modern foreign-made vehicles. The force was later increased to 80 battalions. ".

"The enemy planned to block Melitopol in 15 days and advance to the Sea of Azov, Mariupol and the border with Crimea. ".

Ukraine sustained huge losses, but could advance insignificantly and failed to break through the Russian tactical defense. In half a year, Ukraine lost in all directions close to 160 thousand men, over 3,000 tanks and armored vehicles, nearly 150 airplanes and helicopters.

"The widely advertised counteroffensive by Ukraine and NATO allies has failed. ".

Current situation:

"The Russian forces are successfully engaged in active defense, hold the positions along the whole contact line, and constantly expand the areas of control in all directions. The enemy is constantly subject to strikes that deny it a chance to move forward. ".

The Russian air defense has destroyed over 6,300 aerial targets, including over 4,600 drones since the beginning of the year.

The Russian military delivered strikes with long-range precision weapons at 1,500 objects, including defense enterprises and critically important facilities. "One of the results of the strikes was a considerable decrease in the output of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex. ".

Ukrainian terrorism:

As Ukraine fails to achieve success on the battlefield, it resorts to terrorist methods. In the DPR, over 4,700 civilians, including 140 children, have been killed since February 2022. Over 16 thousand residential houses and nearly 3,500 civilian infrastructure objects have been damaged or destroyed.

"Ukraine does not abandon attempts of nuclear terrorism and systematically launches unmanned aerial vehicles with explosives to the Zaporozhye NPP and the town of Energodar. ".

Military development:

The Ground Forces have formed two combined arms armies and 14 formations. The Aerospace Forces formed three formations.

The military received over 1,500 new and upgraded tanks, close to 3,000 armored vehicles, over 230 airplanes and helicopters and over 20,000 drones. Four submarines and eight warships joined the Navy.

Partnerships:

The Defense Ministry continues to develop military and military-technical cooperation with foreign military agencies. Over 600 important events have been implemented this year.

In particular, all-round strategic partnership is developed with China and India and all-round interaction is maintained with North Korea.

TAGS.

Military operation in Ukraine.

[Zenduka1]

How would a ceasefire ensure the security of Ukraine?

In my humble opinion I think that is the viable option at this juncture. The only way Ukraine can ensure its security is to commit to no EU and no NATO membership and remove the current government. That is just the Red pill they need to take. When you live next to a superpower it is a hard reality that you have to succumb to the wishes of your bigger Brother. Look at Cuba, look at Mexico. Do you think Mexico will survive a day if it becomes a Russian Satellite state with Nukes planted in its territory? No.

[John Clayton]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/w...e=articleShare

I pray this goes somewhere. Theres got to be a way to stop the killing and insure the security of Ukraine.

How would a ceasefire ensure the security of Ukraine?

[Tiny 12]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/w...e=articleShare

I pray this goes somewhere. There’s got to be a way to stop the killing and insure the security of Ukraine.

[Riina]

You forgot to mention they are sending Females to the front now, that is how bad it is for Ukraine, yet some continue to want the war to continue.

I see lots of young Ukrainian men in my home city and they are quality dudes certain to be successful. It's hard to believe governments want to destroy them.

[DramaFree11]

"The average Ukrainian soldier is 43-years-old, according to Time Magazine.

When the war began in February 2022, the average Ukrainian soldier was between 30 and 35 years old.

Ukraine is battling mounting manpower problems more than 20 months into the war. ".

https://www.businessinsider.com/aver...0 years%20 old.

You forgot to mention they are sending Females to the front now, that is how bad it is for Ukraine, yet some continue to want the war to continue.

[DramaFree11]

Here is the latest piece from Taibbi:

In a bold piece of agitprop, "USA Officials" blame Ukraine's bleak battlefield situation on. Pentagon leaker Jack Teixeira?

If Teixeira hadn't let slip that officials were freaking out in private about Ukraine's prospects, members of Congress might not have been emboldened to filibuster Biden's spending bill as they did last week. Therefore, learning the truth was bad, and we can blame the leaks, not the factory-produced river of hogwash dumped on the world for the last 22 months, for the dilemma now facing Biden and Ukraine. How's that for Beltway bull-slinging?.

Great post! I Hope Pres. Z days are numbered, you want to talk about war crimes, he should be on the top of the list. Hopefully they charge him with War Crimes. What joke. There will be nothing left. Biden, Pres. Z. And some Euros have no clue and have ruined Ukraine. It is time to wave the White Flag and save what they can, but I am afraid they are going keep going and Russia will have to take Pres. Z and his government out.