Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Elvis 2008]

Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.

I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

We have the same thing now with Pelosi going to Taiwan. China has said they absolutely do not want Pelosi to go to Taiwan. And now there is this dick measuring contest about whether Pelosi should go. It is funny to me. What is the upside of her going? Are we going to show China who is boss just like we did with Russia and Ukraine because that worked out so well? Of course Pelosi is going to go to Taiwan because the Democrats want war.

WW3 is a small price to pay for the Democrats to stay in power, and that is what the war in Ukraine is all about.

[Paulie97]

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.

The good news is that they aren't getting their way. They are a small minority even in the Republican Party. Ukraine is getting lethal aid for the fight they wish to fight and Russia is paying a heavy price. No amount of daily, repetitive squawking in a hooker forum is going to change that.

[Xpartan]

Your hero Obama did. https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/ob...r-with-russia/.

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.

Playing dirty again, Elvis?

Or being an idiot again, Elvis?

It's either one or another, Elvis. Which is it?

First, this interview took place in 2016, way before the Bunker Rat ordered a full-blown invasion of Ukraine.

Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.

America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war.

Staying away means fuck it. No support, not weapons, no military cooperation, no nothing. That's what Travv wants. He doesn't want anyone to interfere with Russia in their attempt to finish off Ukraine.

Obama didn't want to go to war, but he didn't stay away either. He sent Ukraine $800 million non-letal military equipment and established the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative.

Why non-letal? Because there wasn't a full-blown war back then, that's why.

Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.

Let's keep antibiotics out of it, shell we, LOL?

Your references to Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq are completely out of context. First, if we didn't stop North Korea's advance, Asia and probably the whole world would look different today. Knowing what those savages have done in the territory they conquered, you surely wouldn't wish the same fate for Korea in whole?

Although wait -- I forgot you "don't give a damn about" any shitty lands that lie beyond our borders. Sorry, slipped my mind for a second.

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.

Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.

Carlson's name will live in infamy. He'll be as "famous" as Donald S. Day and Mildred Gillars one day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_S._Day#Arrest_and_charges_of_treason.

[Paulie97]

Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here .

You don't need more than high school. All you need to do is cut off Fox News for a while, surf around and do some valid research rather than swallowing propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for their existence against a neighbor that feels like they have no right to exist. This is based on forced and false historical narratives. The bottom line is that Russia wants their goodies, industries, farmlands, and ports and is willing to murder civilians and prisoners of war, and engage in forced deportations to get them. There's a gencocide going on. Ukraine is quite developed and successful when compared to most of Russia. Some try to blame the victim by calling Ukraine corrupt, and there is corruption there like any country. However they've made improvements since 2014 and moving away from the Russian puppet governments. They typically get much better scores on corruption measures than Russia.

But Ukrainians love freedom and their country so much that they want to fight for it. They are willing to spill the blood but have asked the West for weapons, and we have agreed as we should. This sends the right message in Europe that you can't run roughshod stealing your neighbor's land without consequence. This sets the right precedent, both for us and our NATO allies in Europe. So that's what we are doing, and the vast majority of Americans and politicians from both major political parties agree with it, while we levy cripling sanctions on the Russian economy. And none of this is likely to change as a result of any hacks or pseudo-intellectuals in a monger forum. So that's a brief summary, the bottom line, and good luck. .

P.S. Also all of this has been covered already on this thread and in greater detail.

[WyattEarp]

This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.

Your recent outrage was specifically triggered when I said Europe can defend itself. Sure, the United States can still be an active, contributing member with its nuclear deterrence. We don't need to be the bulwark on the ground in Europe. I don't know if I can be clear enough.

You also challenged my opinion that China is the preeminent global threat. I stated that we need to focus more on the Western Pacific. Quoting your post "They (China) are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia. " Most Americans (and a lot of Taiwanese, Japanese etc.) would disagree with you.

In reality, none of my positions in reality conflict with providing major support for the Ukraine.

These are clearly stated opinions that really don't fit into your box described wishy washy. As I said, you want to put everyone in a black and white box or else they break your rigid views. You have to allow for for some nuance and varying opinions on social media. Jmsuttr and I could always have different perspectives while having civil discussions.

[Paulie97]

So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on.

Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.

As to any "culture war," that's just code for traditionally marginalized people empowering themselves and demanding rights and a voice. The internet facilitates much of this. This makes a lot of folks uncomfortable, especially those seeing their privilege slipping away. There's also a lot of money to be made stirring these folks up screaming that the sky is falling. Just look at the homes that Carlson and Hannity live in for starters. Habitually lying with a charismatic flair pays.

With that I'm over and out. I have a trip to Colombia coming up soon, plus anyone interested in my views on this can check my post history. I've answered every possible objection several times already, am done going in circles. Maybe Wyatt can lead you all in a love in. He's flexible, I mean wishy washy enough. Wink.

[Paulie97]

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts.

This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.

[Elvis 2008]

Non-vital according to who? Who gave you a magic dick to decide what's vital and what's not?

Your hero Obama did. https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/ob...r-with-russia/.

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.

Your ideological forefathers in the 1930's sang the same tune about Japan and the Nazis. Non-vital, my ass.

Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.

[Socker]

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts. I wouldn't read Paulie or Elvis last references to me to try to gauge my opinions. That would seem to make sense.

Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here. All involved in the Ukrainian back and forth are super smart and very few open to change based on reality. This is because reality (right and wrong) is being successfully challenged in the west. Many things that used to be right are now wrong. I've been around for 70 years and things have never been worse in America. This is lost on most people under 40 as they've only been adults during the decline. The decline has been in the works for 30 years and I have a front row seat in San Francisco, a once world class city and now an embarrassment.

So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on. Before this cultural war (as they call it) most people believed the truth is more important than party affiliation but this sadly is no longer the case. Thanks for not biting my head off as some here enjoy doing when you have an alternative pov. All the best.

[Xpartan]

America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war. But if you think it is vital to fight in a war overseas, get yourself to the Ukie Embassy ASAP and sign up with the International Legion! There's a place in the trenches waiting for you along with the estimated 50,000 Russian artillery shells per day hitting the Ukie trenches, so you will not be bored. Let the rest of us know how that works out for you!

Non-vital according to who? Who gave you a magic dick to decide what's vital and what's not?

Your ideological forefathers in the 1930's sang the same tune about Japan and the Nazis. Non-vital, my ass.

50,000 shells? That's old news. They've been running out since mid-June, and Ukrainians are taking out their arms and fuel depots well behind the front lines. Go HIMARS!

You are completely delusional. The only threat Russia has is their Nukes, their army is terrible and that is being kind.

I would support the war if we were actually trying to win and if Pres. Z. was willing to negotiate. Maybe producing Gas would be a good start, but why try to win now.

I have no idea what you just said. "Trying to win" and "willing to negotiate" don't work in the same sentence. And WTF does "why try to win now" means? Someone's running after you? Finish your goddamn thoughts and sentences.

We in America have learned bitter lessons from two world wars: It is better to be here in Europe ready to protect the peace, than to take blind shelter across the sea, rushing to respond only after freedom is lost. We've learned that isolationism never was and never will be an acceptable response to tyrannical governments with an expansionist intent.

No, Obama didn't say that. Ronald Reagan did. Although after Mad Don, he sounds like Karl Marx now.

[Paulie97]

American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.

The US / Euro alliance is a force to be reckoned with, both economically and militarily, whether we are engaging Russia, China or both. Those who seek to weaken these alliances are fools. And though these may be the loudest in a hooker forum, thankfully they are very much a minority in Western Europe and the US, though a substantial minority comprising the traitorous wing of the Republican Party. Isolationists are also found in the Chomsky-esque leftists. This disgusting entity in the US also hates it's own country.

Such misappropriations of 'America First,' a phrase first used by 'The America First Committee' which encouraged non-involvement in WW II emboldens tyrants. It's why Saddam annexed Kuwait because he believed the US would stay out of it. US isolationism and British appeasement emboldened Hitler, and the Kaiser in WW I as he believed both Britain and the US were likely to stay on the sidelines with an invasion of France.

Needless to say our friends in Asia are very important also.

[DramaFree11]

American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.

You are completely delusional. The only threat Russia has is their Nukes, their army is terrible and that is being kind.

I would support the war if we were actually trying to win and if Pres. Z. was willing to negotiate. Maybe producing Gas would be a good start, but why try to win now.

[Travv]

America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war. But if you think it is vital to fight in a war overseas, get yourself to the Ukie Embassy ASAP and sign up with the International Legion! There's a place in the trenches waiting for you along with the estimated 50,000 Russian artillery shells per day hitting the Ukie trenches, so you will not be bored. Let the rest of us know how that works out for you!

American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.

[Xpartan]

I do not share Elvis' view on the war. I simply agreed with Elvis that Europe does not need the USA To defend them.

American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.

[Elvis 2008]

Was not just in Europe. He was doing military support buildup in Africa and Asia.

Thing was I was watching Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a military series on Disney Plus. The military consults and suggests edits for a show like that. In the beginning of the series, Falcon has to slow down so as not to enter Libyan air space like they were a superpower. I was like, "Oh so Biden wants war with Libya then. " A lot of those supplies were sent to countries surrounding Libya. Thing is I looked up how strong Libya's air force was and they have six, yes six, aircraft.

The whole pandemic of the unvaxxed we now know was bullshit. The unvaxxed pandemic was stirred up so that Pfizer and Moderna could make money and funnel it back to the Dems. The 4 X vaxxed Biden and Fauci both got Covid.

It is sad that the only bipartisan schemes these days are throwing money at companies and the defense contractors are favorites of both parties. The latest budget gave the defense contractors more than Biden even asked for with a lot of Republicans helping the Dems get that money. But for defense contractors, the war in Ukraine has already been a smashing success.

So Biden got a war like he wanted, and Russia is so much the better bad guy than Libya.