Seeking Arrangements

[Steve 9696]

Just to add some perspective from a part of the world that is not so often mentioned in this thread: some of my encounters via SA in Berlin in 2020.

* an French-Tunisian girl, 25 years old, amazing breasts the most prominent of her features, very interesting personality, and crazy in a slightly submissive way in bed; we meet on a PPM (pay per meet) basis every once in a while, 300-400.

* a Latina, student of politology, more on the petite side, and very cute; she wanted to have non intimate meetings in the beginning, but we quickly became very close to each other, and eventually we had sex for free (she was shy for reasons of gender politics, the sugar world is appealing to her, but she is also conflicted about it); we had to stop after a few meetings, since the only way open for us would have been into a full grown affair / relationship (age difference nearly 30 years), and I didn't want that (we are friends now).

* a young German student who gave me my best evening of sex this year, passionate and tender, completely uninhibited, great kisser, great BBBJ / CIM; second meeting stalling so far for reasons not completely clear to me (I have a feeling she became aware of how much she opened up only after the meeting) age difference 35 years, ppm 300.

* a 19 year old Vietnamese girl, highly attractive face and body, slim, and smart; an absolute delight potentially, but also very cash driven; I made an exception for her and agreed on an introductory meeting, gave her 200 for it, and refrained from making a move, just out of intuition; the next day she already wanted me to paypal her more; we are still texting and I might go for her in the new year, but I feel there is a possibility for disappointment in the encounter (she may show me the transactionality of our encounter too bluntly).

In general Berlin with all the students from everywhere and the hinterland of Eastern Europe is an amazing place to use SA even if nowadays there are a lot of profiles seeking quick profit from online contact; I'd say there is on average one gem per week to be found, which can keep a man busy enough.

Thanks for coming out of lurker status to share that. Great stuff. I've always done Artemis when in Berlin and it's a bit sharky really as FKKS go. Did Agency Liberteur one time and got lucky but doubt it's consistent. Great to know Berlin has a lively SB scene. Assuming I ever travel again. LOL.

[TeFab456]

Just to add some perspective from a part of the world that is not so often mentioned in this thread: some of my encounters via SA in Berlin in 2020.

* an French-Tunisian girl, 25 years old, amazing breasts the most prominent of her features, very interesting personality, and crazy in a slightly submissive way in bed; we meet on a PPM (pay per meet) basis every once in a while, 300-400.

* a Latina, student of politology, more on the petite side, and very cute; she wanted to have non intimate meetings in the beginning, but we quickly became very close to each other, and eventually we had sex for free (she was shy for reasons of gender politics, the sugar world is appealing to her, but she is also conflicted about it); we had to stop after a few meetings, since the only way open for us would have been into a full grown affair / relationship (age difference nearly 30 years), and I didn't want that (we are friends now).

* a young German student who gave me my best evening of sex this year, passionate and tender, completely uninhibited, great kisser, great BBBJ / CIM; second meeting stalling so far for reasons not completely clear to me (I have a feeling she became aware of how much she opened up only after the meeting) age difference 35 years, ppm 300.

* a 19 year old Vietnamese girl, highly attractive face and body, slim, and smart; an absolute delight potentially, but also very cash driven; I made an exception for her and agreed on an introductory meeting, gave her 200 for it, and refrained from making a move, just out of intuition; the next day she already wanted me to paypal her more; we are still texting and I might go for her in the new year, but I feel there is a possibility for disappointment in the encounter (she may show me the transactionality of our encounter too bluntly).

In general Berlin with all the students from everywhere and the hinterland of Eastern Europe is an amazing place to use SA even if nowadays there are a lot of profiles seeking quick profit from online contact; I'd say there is on average one gem per week to be found, which can keep a man busy enough.

[Steve 9696]

Happy New Year and thanks to Midwestern for starting this forum. Almost exactly a year ago Jan 9 was first post. And as MW says it was a bit barren at first and then got its sea legs. I have to say it was a timely thing as I had to transition from traveling SD to stay at home SD and learn a completely new set of rules and how to prospect locally. It's been an adventure. Without SA I would be absolutely in a sex desert with no hope in sight.

Speaking of which, my condolences to MW on the scene in Shanghai. What used to be one of my favorite scenes worldwide (Manhattan Bar) has now become a scary wasteland of P4 P. I read with horror in the Shanghai thread how guys are getting handjobs in sleazy back rooms and claiming victory. A really sad and scary (jail time a real possibility) situation. Worse than the US which I thought was the worst.

I've learned a lot this past year and a half about pickup game Nanpa in Japan and how important some basics are to the SA scene. One of the things they talk about is abundance, scarcity, and outcome independence. Basically when pussy is scarce you are trying to preserve it and it changes your actions and makes it scarcer. Conversely, when you have a mindset of "outcome independence" (if this crashes and burns I'll just move to the next girl no big deal) you are more confident. And when more confident it leads to abundance. And when you have abundance you are more outcome independent. It's a virtuous cycle!

I've seen this of late in spades here locally. When Layla was off, I just moved to next. Which was (is) Sarah. And when Sarah was cool I started looking. And since I started looking I became more confident that if Sarah tanked I'the just go to next. So I became more confident with her as well. So.

I just met the Sarah thing head on and said something feels off. We had a good convo about the issue and we are back on. Meanwhile I had a date with my Mongolian girl. She's an odd one and wasn't sure if I should proceed. We had a light peck kiss at her car. Again, feeling confident (because I have Sarah and Layla) I asked her by text later if that was a peck goodbye or she's just shy. She says she's really shy but wants to meet again and show me she's a passionate girl. Meanwhilst I am enamored with a Colombian hottie that I am texting. She's quite a pro (tho only 20) but her confidence bordering on arrogance is somehow really appealing (and she's hot AF) and we're talking about a meetup. And of course as a backup I have Layla (and after talking about how her BJ and Kissing are subpar shes planning to bring a friend next time who supposedly excels at both hmm well see if I wanna do that.)

So now suddenly thanks to abundance and an outcome independent mindset I have more than I can reasonably handle and keep happy. This all in what I thought was a pussy desert just 4 months ago. Start with an outcome independent mindset and the rest will follow.

[Midwestern]

WyattEarp, DramaFree, and to all contributors to this subforum:

Thanks for your appreciation, but more importantly, thanks for your contributions!!

At one time, I had an insane obsession and passion for SA, and I spent around 15 hours a week on SA for almost 20 months. This was a few years ago. But when Steve brought up SA in the Shanghai forum a few months ago, and saying that SA was the best way to get girls in the USA, we just started talking about SA and then we created this subforum to discuss it in here, and for anyone else to join the convo. At first, it felt like Steve and I were just texting each other on here, LOL. We weren't sure if others were using SA. But eventually, you guys all came on board and made this subforum a great resource. Thanks, everyone! I've learned a ton from you guys.

And happy new year!

[Midwestern]

Wow, I thought you spoke Chinese, my Spanish sucks, I real do not have a good excuse, just lazy I guess.

I have a couple questions: 1. If a girl does not want to use the translator what do you do? I have found most of the girls in MTY that I meet, that are unwilling to use the translator, it is usually is a total waste of time and never works out. Many times if there is a connection they quickly start using the translator. Once money is discuss I start communicating in English, unless they are super hot, then all rules are out the window.

I know enough Chinese that I can pull of a first date, as long as it's all small talk, like, where are you from, do you have kids, what do you like to eat, etc. But then, after that, that's it. So, eventually, these girls all get frustrated with me. And eventually, we either drift apart, or we settle into a pay for play routine.

[DramaFree11]

I just want to thank Steve, Midwestern and others for their valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. The SA scene clearly involves a lot of nuance and finesse. Cheers and Happy New Year!

The value of this thread as only been enhanced by the fact that some localized forums have deleted and banned SA discussions. I presume some local sponsors view SA as a threat. I doubt for men that SA will replace convenient and easy pay for play. Perhaps at the margin, a few SA girls that would have considered escorting never take the leap into the escort world. Conversely, it's possible that a SA girl realizes she can handle being an escort.

I agree totally. I have learned more from this page, then all others pages combined. You can always learn something, there are some guys that I know are lying or exaggerating, but occasionally I will learn something from them as well. Keep up the good work and great information.

[DramaFree11]

Thanks for the suggestions, man, but the problem is that I do not speak the language (Chinese). So, I cannot chat up the security guards. I am an American. China does not exactly love Americans. So, here I am, bringing hot girls that are half my age into a very nice apartment for afternoon romps. Everyone is giving me dirty looks.

The other problem is that everyone is pretty much deputized in China. This means that a nosy person who has nothing better to do can call the police on me, and will actually get "social credits" for doing it. Given that I cannot speak Chinese, and my girlfriends cannot speak English, the police will assume it is pay for play, and they do not even need a reason to put me in jail for two weeks while they investigate.

Believe me, I also thought I had a nice setup. During my first week at the apartment, I was boinking almost every day there, sometimes all day long. It was awesome. But now my SB #1 does not even want to go back there because everyone gives us dirty looks, and she too is afraid that someone will call the police.

Oh, and one last thing that I forgot to mention is that China is cracking down hard on pay for play activities. Especially now, during the holiday season. So, this makes me even more nervous, especially for now.

Wow, I thought you spoke Chinese, my Spanish sucks, I real do not have a good excuse, just lazy I guess.

I have a couple questions: 1. If a girl does not want to use the translator what do you do? I have found most of the girls in MTY that I meet, that are unwilling to use the translator, it is usually is a total waste of time and never works out. Many times if there is a connection they quickly start using the translator. Once money is discuss I start communicating in English, unless they are super hot, then all rules are out the window.

[Max #01]

This question is directed to you and Steve since you have discussed FKKs here. What is the general attitude of the FKK girls towards DFK? Nothing disappoints me more than the tight-lipped LFK. It's also kind of a drag when forum members describe the DFK scene as YMMV.

It really depends upon the girl and the connection you build in your "get acquainted" time in the lounge area. When I've been successful, it's always been in the room right at the beginning when we're standing facing each other. Since she is usually shorter than me, I just gently put my hand under her chin and go for it. I've gotten everything from peck on the cheek to the darting tongue to full-on DFK.

[WyattEarp]

I just want to thank Steve, Midwestern and others for their valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. The SA scene clearly involves a lot of nuance and finesse. Cheers and Happy New Year!

The value of this thread as only been enhanced by the fact that some localized forums have deleted and banned SA discussions. I presume some local sponsors view SA as a threat. I doubt for men that SA will replace convenient and easy pay for play. Perhaps at the margin, a few SA girls that would have considered escorting never take the leap into the escort world. Conversely, it's possible that a SA girl realizes she can handle being an escort.

[WyattEarp]

Just stumbled on your posts! Well done! I've been to various consenting adult places in several European countries, including Sharks, and I completely agree. I would just add a couple of additional facts:

1. As you point out, the buffet at Sharks (or less extensive food area in other FKKs) is a great place to relax. Most clubs also make it a "no solicitation zone" and don't allow the girls to pick you up. So, it's an oasis or demilitarized zone of sorts............

This question is directed to you and Steve since you have discussed FKKs here. What is the general attitude of the FKK girls towards DFK? Nothing disappoints me more than the tight-lipped LFK. It's also kind of a drag when forum members describe the DFK scene as YMMV.

[Midwestern]

Seems like you have a nice setup and the security guards already know the score. Why would the police investigate? You're not doing anything wrong. Looks like a good opportunity to apply a little game to the situation (it's not just for the ladies). Instead of walking in sheepishly with a guilty look, befriend one of the late-night guards, and chat him up. Find out what he likes and bring a little gift next time like dessert or alcohol. You might even hint and joke around at why you're there (they already know) and find out whether anyone cares. You could even offer to have your date show ID the next time your there, if they had any concerns. Most security people have been in the hospitality business for a long time and have seen a lot, and they know that tenants are what pays their salary. They all talk, so you only need to befriend one or two. This works particularly well overseas at hotels and Airbnb's but worth a shot here too.

Thanks for the suggestions, man, but the problem is that I do not speak the language (Chinese). So, I cannot chat up the security guards. I am an American. China does not exactly love Americans. So, here I am, bringing hot girls that are half my age into a very nice apartment for afternoon romps. Everyone is giving me dirty looks.

The other problem is that everyone is pretty much deputized in China. This means that a nosy person who has nothing better to do can call the police on me, and will actually get "social credits" for doing it. Given that I cannot speak Chinese, and my girlfriends cannot speak English, the police will assume it is pay for play, and they do not even need a reason to put me in jail for two weeks while they investigate.

Believe me, I also thought I had a nice setup. During my first week at the apartment, I was boinking almost every day there, sometimes all day long. It was awesome. But now my SB #1 does not even want to go back there because everyone gives us dirty looks, and she too is afraid that someone will call the police.

Oh, and one last thing that I forgot to mention is that China is cracking down hard on pay for play activities. Especially now, during the holiday season. So, this makes me even more nervous, especially for now.

[BrizLad]

It's been a month since I promised myself that I would not again see a local Korean hottie that I met on seeking.com. Now it's been Christmas and I want to send her a little greeting. She is very accommodating and hosts me for the day at her house. Great fun.

But her attitude to money annoys me. She is a single mum, 2 kids and not exactly rolling in cash but she will have me take her to an expensive place for dinner. I could just as easily give her the extra cash as I keep a mental note of the total 'cost' of the various girls. Some girls see the payment as the max whereas this little hottie sees it as a starting point to see how much extra I can spend on her. She then has nothing to show for the extra $$ just some escape from her day-to-day life.

I'm looking for experience shares on how to access her sweet pussy charms without feeling like she is raping my credit card. I like to know in advance how much an adventure will cost me.

[Max #01]

Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.

So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?

Just stumbled on your posts! Well done! I've been to various consenting adult places in several European countries, including Sharks, and I completely agree. I would just add a couple of additional facts:

1. As you point out, the buffet at Sharks (or less extensive food area in other FKKs) is a great place to relax. Most clubs also make it a "no solicitation zone" and don't allow the girls to pick you up. So, it's an oasis or demilitarized zone of sorts.

2. Some FKKs go beyond that and have a strict no-solicitation policy throughout the club. When you're ready, you have to go to them and get acquainted. This makes the experience all the more relaxing and on your terms.

3. Some FKKs have kinos (movie theaters) showing porn. If you're into public sex, you and your beloved can do the deed right in front of everybody else in the theater.

4. Although the recent German laws requiring condoms (even for blow jobs) have stifled the business somewhat, there are still some flat-rate clubs called Partytreffs. (Check out this forum for the link). You basically pay a flat rate and you can have as much sex as you can handle. The girls aren't as young or as attractive as at an FKK, but they love sex. A spontaneous group session or gangbang can break out at any moment. I mention the German laws because most Partytreffs started out with bareback blowjobs out in the lounge area.

5. In recent years, many clubs sell the generic Viagra gel at the desk.

[CarloRogue]

You might recall that I am renting an apartment to meet girls at. Well, the last time we were there, the security guard stopped us as we were leaving. It gave my SB a fright. Me too, actually. But they just wanted to know if anyone was going to pay the heating bill for the past two months.

Officially, I do not have a formal lease at this place. I just pay the landlady three months rent in advance. So, the security guards and front desk people just give me quizzical and sometimes dirty looks every time I show up with a girl. So, I have not been using the place lately. I am paying rent for nothing. I am probably going to bail on it. The big mistake is that this apartment building is small, with a small lobby, so everyone that works there knows my business. No privacy. On the one hand, I should not give a shit what people think. However, some of my friends told me that any day now, the police might show up at my real residence and ask me what I am doing at the other apartment, which kind of scares me. Fuck. I thought this was a great idea, but obviously it's not.

In the meantime, I am still meeting up with other girls at their places. But as far as my two SBs go, I think I will have to cut bait with them. With both of them, I have now been with them about 10 times already, and it just gets stale after a while. I am beginning to think that monthly arrangements or any LT arrangement is a waste of time. I think I am way more into strange. This idea of having an SB because she gives me semi genuine GFE is a novelty that is starting to wear off. How about for you? BTW, maybe you should feel lucky that Sarah is being a bit cool..

Seems like you have a nice setup and the security guards already know the score. Why would the police investigate? You're not doing anything wrong. Looks like a good opportunity to apply a little game to the situation (it's not just for the ladies). Instead of walking in sheepishly with a guilty look, befriend one of the late-night guards, and chat him up. Find out what he likes and bring a little gift next time like dessert or alcohol. You might even hint and joke around at why you're there (they already know) and find out whether anyone cares. You could even offer to have your date show ID the next time your there, if they had any concerns. Most security people have been in the hospitality business for a long time and have seen a lot, and they know that tenants are what pays their salary. They all talk, so you only need to befriend one or two. This works particularly well overseas at hotels and Airbnb's but worth a shot here too.

[Steve 9696]

You might recall that I am renting an apartment to meet girls at. Well, the last time we were there, the security guard stopped us as we were leaving. It gave my SB a fright. Me too, actually. But they just wanted to know if anyone was going to pay the heating bill for the past two months.

Officially, I do not have a formal lease at this place. I just pay the landlady three months rent in advance. So, the security guards and front desk people just give me quizzical and sometimes dirty looks every time I show up with a girl. So, I have not been using the place lately. I am paying rent for nothing. I am probably going to bail on it. The big mistake is that this apartment building is small, with a small lobby, so everyone that works there knows my business. No privacy. On the one hand, I should not give a shit what people think. However, some of my friends told me that any day now, the police might show up at my real residence and ask me what I am doing at the other apartment, which kind of scares me. Fuck. I thought this was a great idea, but obviously it's not.

In the meantime, I am still meeting up with other girls at their places. But as far as my two SBs go, I think I will have to cut bait with them. With both of them, I have now been with them about 10 times already, and it just gets stale after a while. I am beginning to think that monthly arrangements or any LT arrangement is a waste of time. I think I am way more into strange. This idea of having an SB because she gives me semi genuine GFE is a novelty that is starting to wear off. How about for you? BTW, maybe you should feel lucky that Sarah is being a bit cool. I was worried that she would really fall in love with you and that would create a messy situation for you.

Anyway, I haven't seen SB #1 since that last time we met at the apartment. She said she doesn't want to go there again. But like I said, I don't miss her that much now. Weird. For a while, I really thought that I would want her as my SB forever, LOL. She had everything, including looks, body, and personality. Maybe I am spoiled and I am taking these SBs for granted.

Yeah I think there is definitely something to what you are saying. Yes we clearly want the sex. And yes we clearly want that girlfriendy thing. But we also want to seduce and conquer. So once she's urs and you can have her any time suddenly she is less interesting. I find myself looking forward to dinner with some new girl as much as sex with an existing one. Although I will confess this is partly because I'm not crushing on any of the girls I can have right now. If this was Alexa or Krystal I'the be dying to just have dinner with her because I can just stare all night I am so smitten. LOL. But right now "new" is trumping the bird in the hand.

This partly comes with what the Nanpa guys call and abundance mindset. If I thought Layla or Sarah were the last girl I could have for a long time I'the hold on for dear life. But since it's clear I can continue this journey in many different ways and not have scarcity it makes the pursuit more doable.

P.S. I still have to hold on a bit because it's not target rich where I live. If I was in Miami or somewhere damn I'the be going thru the roster.