Seeking Arrangements

[Midwestern]

After a few dates or once you are in an arrangement, the topic of whether you're married is usually asked, usually in casual conversation.

What is the optimal answer?

My friend who is on SA says that it is best is to say that you're divorced with one kid. This way, we look like normal guys. This is for guys in their 40's and 50's.

I used to say that I was divorced and single, to incentivise GFE. In the short run, it does work, but now I think the best thing is to tell them that you're married. Maybe she'll be disappointed at first, but it's best for the long run arrangement. So that she knows it's just an arrangement, and there is no disappointment later.

However, I am still torn. Tell them you're married or tell them you are divorced and single? Obviously, it doesn't matter what the truth is.

Any other opinions?

This is obviously is moot for one-offs or someone that you only will see a few times. This only applies to long term.

[Akibono]

Opportunity cost has to include the frustration of dealing with a drama queen. Opportunity cost when you send a text is = sending text + time wasted on expecting a reply + time wasted on analyzing the response + time wasted on figuring out what to say next + time / peace of mind wasted in feeling bad about the whole thing. Wash rinse repeat. And pretty soon becomes a headache.

What may be true for the average may not be true for an individual case. Every day is not hot every summer.

[SonicBoom1]

The 'opportunity cost' is still small compared to what he has invested. And the return is great based on what WM said. So I think it is far from the point that it is not worth it.

Opportunity cost has to include the frustration of dealing with a drama queen. Opportunity cost when you send a text is = sending text + time wasted on expecting a reply + time wasted on analyzing the response + time wasted on figuring out what to say next + time / peace of mind wasted in feeling bad about the whole thing. Wash rinse repeat. And pretty soon becomes a headache.

[Nounce]

You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.

The 'opportunity cost' is still small compared to what he has invested. And the return is great based on what WM said. So I think it is far from the point that it is not worth it.

[Nounce]

She mentioned to me once that she can barely make ends meet with her current job, and so she's been studying to become a florist (I have no idea how a florist makes more money than a receptionist). So, as suggested, whenever I give her cash, I will tell her it is to help her and that it makes me happy to help her.

You know that sometimes people don't make good education investment decision. Maybe she is thinking about owning her own shop.

Cash is much more common than gift in that part of the world. Even in traditional marriage, male side will give female side a predetermined sum of money. You can check with your local friends to find out when bonus is given out. I think you just passed a significant one which is the dragon boat festival. Next possible one is the mid-autumn festival.

[Akibono]

Warning: This post contains no useful info.

After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.

I think she invited you to her place to get to know you and things went a bit further than expected. She did like you. She probably did not know when to say stop. You are a foreigner and that comes with a reputation of playing the field and leaving. Her friends may also influence her. Plus, there is potential embarrassment and loss of face for being used. You need to show your sincerity. Instead of offering, just send her a gift with an apology. It has to be right. Not cheap, but not so expensive that it looks like you are buying her. If you come up with a story of having a hard life when you were young and the money was to help her family because you have been there, that may go a long way. You should also expect a few meet ups before sex again and you will have to ask instead of assume.

[SonicBoom1]

You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.

Agreed. Write it off Midwestern, and move on. Just my $0. 02.

[SonicBoom1]

Try to distance any gifts from the act. We all eat meat but we keep the transaction at a distance. Surely none of us wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of us. We want the paying as far from the killing as possible. Same applies here.

She just wants to be assured she's not a sl*t.

Spot on. Great analogy. Applies to a certain situation I'm facing at work.

[PilotPaul]

Anyway, small update: I keep texting her. But she only replies with a smilely or a hug emoji. That's it. She's usually very chatty on text, because her job is incredibly boring. But now she is keeping it short. More than half the time, she just ignores my text. Yesterday, I offered to bring her lunch, and she just texted back with two words: "don't need. " And then I asked, "how about some fruit?" And she just texted back, "no. " But I will persist. I have nothing to lose now.

You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.

[Midwestern]

Yeah, I'm not going to give up on her. She had sex with me because she likes me. That by itself makes her very valuable to me. Plus, she is young and pretty, she lives nearby, has her own place, and is willing to bareback.

Maybe I'll do some lunch dates and some cuddling before I try to get her back into the sack. Eventually, though, I want this to end up as an "arrangement. " I don't want her thinking that this could lead to marriage. And I think the main way to signal that is to give her cash. This will let her know that this is something in-between prostitution and a real relationship. Which is what we all want from an arrangement to begin with, right? BUT, the truth is, I really am giving her cash to help her out, not just for the sex. She mentioned to me once that she can barely make ends meet with her current job, and so she's been studying to become a florist (I have no idea how a florist makes more money than a receptionist). So, as suggested, whenever I give her cash, I will tell her it is to help her and that it makes me happy to help her.

I still cannot believe myself. I can't believe I just showed up at her door, took a shower, and started making out with her and then moved to DATY. She kept saying, "what are you doing?" But I just kept moving it along. With sex in multiple positions. I just replicated what I do when I visit an incall! And then, before I leave, I give her money. FLOL, man!! Wtf is wrong with me?! Just LOL, man. I must be really jaded. On her side, my inner Sigmund Freud is suggesting to me that because her dad died 10 years ago, when she was a teenager, she didn't want to disappoint me or say no, because maybe I am some sort of father figure to her or something.

Anyway, small update: I keep texting her. But she only replies with a smilely or a hug emoji. That's it. She's usually very chatty on text, because her job is incredibly boring. But now she is keeping it short. More than half the time, she just ignores my text. Yesterday, I offered to bring her lunch, and she just texted back with two words: "don't need. " And then I asked, "how about some fruit?" And she just texted back, "no. " But I will persist. I have nothing to lose now.

Thanks again for the encouragement and advice.

[PilotPaul]

I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore.

Good feedback and another experience to build your MO.

When I started writing some notes on how many different women I had slept with and different experiences I had my list was 300 different women. Maybe you are similar.

Many of these girl that we contact may be orders of magnitude less with some only having had a few 'serious' boyfriends. There are girls that we meet whom are also professional mongers in their own way but that's a different story.

I think in both cases this is a plausible deniability on her part. No need to get caught up in the game.

[Steve 9696]

Warning: This post contains no useful info.

After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.

Agree with others. No time wasting here. We are all here to learn and give back. I think the responses are spot on. It felt good and right to give her cash. But it made her feel cheap like she just had sex for money. She probably needed it so she took it and now she is kicking herself and feeling ashamed.

In Nanpa they have a thing called ASD anti-sl*t-defense. Basically girls don't want to be seen as it think of themselves as sl*ts. So you have to help them here not make it worse.

Try to distance any gifts from the act. We all eat meat but we keep the transaction at a distance. Surely none of us wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of us. We want the paying as far from the killing as possible. Same applies here.

And I don't think she was expecting any money it was a true date! If that's what U want (with the ensuing drama as well) then surely you can get her back. Yes of course you have seen other girls in the past but right now she is the one you are interested in. She just wants to be assured she's not a sl*t.

[Pessimist]

Warning: This post contains no useful info.

After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.

I am not surprised. I have a couple of suggestions. A) It is not a lost cause yet with her. She did have sex with you after all. If you like her enough, persist. Make some apologies, explain to her your true intent and feeling, explain to her that you like her. If you give up after she blew up once, it confirms her biased judgement in her own mind that you treated her like a tute. But if you persist, she will know that you do like her. After all, a monger does move onto the next tute, while a real lover will persist and pacify after a lover's spat. Obviously, you are not lovers yet, this is not YET a true relationship, but it can become one, not a romantic one as you may not want such but more of a fuck buddy relationship. But even a fuck buddy relationship is still an ongoing relationship and involves give and take, someone blowing up occasionally while the other pacifies. I mean, look. I had girls act jealous and refuse to go with me in FKKs but they come back, they always do.

B) next time on, give a real gift. Of course that requires some preparation, but worth the effort. Instead of giving cash in a situation like this, give a non cash gift. A nice perfume, a nice purse or sweater etc. Clothes are tricky because if they don't fit, girls become irrational and take it personal. If you give a smaller size item, she will think she is fat and blow up; if you give oversized, she will say "you think I am this fat? But anyway, cash gift definitely plants the seed that it is a monetary transaction and she is treated as a tute. Non monetary gift is very natural and indicates you are a gentleman. Also, try the lines I suggested before "please accept my gift speech" - she will feel like she is pleasing you by accepting the gift.

P.S.: All the nasty assholes who will riff on my comment and say that I am acting like a love sick puppy can take a hike. MW's situation is a real world; non-transactional situation, and requires more tact than what the typical monger is used to, which is handing cash and negotiating for sex like he would for a taxi ride in Bucharest.

[Nounce]

Warning: This post contains no useful info.

After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.

Good report, not time waster. I think perhaps you shouldn't give money to someone like her after sex in the future. You need to disassociate sex and money. Instead, give her money to help her out on other occasions, like holidays, or new year when it is common for people to receive bonus.

[SonicBoom1]

Warning: This post contains no useful info.

After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.

She is feeling guilty and now taking out her guilt and anger on you. Which is complete BS. You can't be responsible for others reactions when it was a free will choice. It's not like you engaged in prostitution or exploitation. You gave her $200 because you cared for her, not because you were paying her for sex (that was free as is often is in a regular date). However now that she has accepted money from you she feels crappy and it causes cognitive dissonance for her.

Give it time, be courteous and say Hello, but don't engage in texting. There is a small chance once she's back to normal she would text you and say sorry.